Antony: why the concern - use the player performance thread

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simplyared

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He’s become the most spoke about player in our current squad. It would be also fair to say there is a growing concern regarding how good he is. Not only on the caf but there are many pundits calling him out too.

Often, because of the price tag etc we expect a quick return for money spent. If we don’t get results (often in terms of goals, assists or whatever) we see the worst.

Noticed on another thread where a caf member was asking for 3 players one would take from any of our top 4 contenders. Noticed Saka was the player who figured most and was suggested as a replacement for Antony.

In other words it’s looking like we’ve already written him off!

My take on Antony and going on what I’ve seen, is that we have a player with a high skillset. Certainly not predictable as many others believe. He can and will start beating his man and he will start getting more goals and assists. Reckon he also has the right mentality. A bit cocky but looks to believe in himself. Charisma’s the word!

I noticed ETH’s reactions when he subbed him off against Forest. Against Forest I could see loads of positives! Also you could see a genuine positive reaction from ETH when he embraced him leaving the pitch. Also like Martinez, ETH took him on board at Ajax. We dont need to even mention what impact Martinez has had.

I believe in our manager’s judgement and the the qualities I’m seeing even if they’re not quite hitting me in the face.

Thought this deserved a thread of it’s own!
 

RedorDead21

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Cost mainly and the ongoing situation with Sancho…we just can’t avoid more transfer flops if we want success given how we are seeing now our budget is now spent…
 

Devil_forever

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Let’s see, he’s a winger who lacks pace, who can’t seem to beat his man consistently, who’s final ball is average at best, who can’t put in a decent cross consistently and he has one very predictable move which is to cut inside and hit it into row Z, oh and all this for a bargain €95m rising to €100m. Any sane person would be concerned.
 

horsechoker

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I don't worry about the cost and I think he's playing fine as part of the team but he is struggling in offence.

I think many viewers only pay to offence so he gets derided for that despite being good defensively and in possession.
 

NLunited

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He is doing marginally better every game. Hag is working with him. He pisses me off less now. Still a young player that needs to develop. Trust in Hag.
 

Hoof the ball

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Let's have a look at a positive. When Antony plays usually our ball retention is a lot better and he's a very good outlet for breaking out from a low block and giving others a chance to push up the field. This makes him tactically valuable. For all the "he didn't score, etc" complaints, it's worth noting his tactical importance to Erik.
 

Shark

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horsechoker said:
I don't worry about the cost and I think he's playing fine as part of the team but he is struggling in offence.

I think many viewers only pay to offence so he gets derided for that despite being good defensively and in possession.
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Well yeah, we're starving for offensive threat aside from Rashford and Bruno to a lesser extent. We need whoever starts on the right to start chipping in. At least start stacking up the assists.
 

Chairman Steve

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Mainly the price tag put on his head.

We bought him for potential rather than him being the finished article. He’s doing just fine in my opinion. This is someone who has barely played 100 games in Europe and he’s still relatively young at 22-23.

I think he’ll be a trickster inverted forward who will link up play really well, work off the ball and have an amazing left foot. He will be a nightmare for left backs due to his quick feet. I hope he’s working on his right foot ability because that will bring a significant improvement.
 

el3mel

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I don't care about the price tag but he's just very average. I don't see what's supposed to be special about him.

He's still our player, will get more chances and there's still time to pass on a final judgement over him. Maybe he'll turn the tides, but for now I'll take Sancho with his flaws any time any day ahead of him.
 

phenry

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I think he's an asset to the team but he hasn't lived up to his price tag. He has potential and its early days yet but he is not incompetent to the extent that he is being made out to be. He needs to improve a lot to justify the price but if he could improve to a level that would justify his place in the team I'd be happy even if it falls short of price led expectations.

That being said there is reason for concern but he's shown enough to suggest there's a good player in there but we need great players not more deadwood. My concern is that EtH will play him more than he should to vindicate getting him in the first place instead of dropping him and putting pressure on him to improve.

We've seen players respond to the threat of competition (Shaw as a prime example) and I'd like to see how Antony handles being dropped. Something needs to change with him and until it does concern is justified
 

NotoriousISSY

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Subjectively, football has become so focussed on ROI - and it doesn't help that this club has quite literally burnt away a billion quid in a decade and is actively briefing the world that we are cutting costs wherever possible.

Objectively we signed a player Ten Hag wanted, he's scored some goals and his trajectory over the last couple of weeks appears to be on the up.

For me, as the right-sided forward/winger for United you have to either be a goal threat or creating chances for others. He's shown glimpses of his goal threat, but we've seen nothing to suggest there's a particularly creative player in there. There are several factors behind this - Dalot's injury, issues with strikers, possible influence in respect of social media or the MSM, or maybe even the pressure of the price.

My personal perspective is that I'm struggling to see the logic behind the transfer at the price we paid. Not so much that I believe every player should deliver X amount of goals/assists in relation to their price, but moreso the fact that we've been through this with Pogba, Maguire, Lukaku etc and it doesn't end well. But I want to be wrong, and my overall hope is this will all start to change when we inevitably invest in a shiny new striker who makes the forward line tick. I think he'll see out the season with a couple more goals without looking particularly functional - again will be delighted if it goes well!
 

Chesterlestreet

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Because people are obsessed with numbers - mostly.

To me it seems (like others have said - in several other threads too) that he's playing very much according to the instructions he's been given by a manager/coach who knows his game very well.

If he offers nothing beyond being a tactical fit next season, we can perhaps start asking questions at some point.
 

acnumber9

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phelans shorts said:
because people think football should take place on a spreadsheet rather than a football pitch
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When it comes to squad building it is played on a spreadsheet. He cost way above what the club could afford to pay for him which has a knock on effect on getting the other players we need. All to contribute what you would expect from a player a quarter of the price.
 

Skills

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Talent mainly. At this club, we have seen some great young talents over the years and he just doesn't stand up against them.

The teenage versions of Rashford, Martial and Greenwood looked levels above him. He just doesn't have any outstanding attributes that inspire confidence that he can be developed into a great player. He's poor to mediocre across almost everything that makes an attacker great.
 
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Scandi Red

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The higher the price tag, the angrier the fans. It doesn't help that literally every other Ten Hag signing has hit the ground running for significantly less money.

Look at Pogba, Lukaku, Maguire and Sancho. These are different players and the latter is still young, but they have one thing in common. All of them are players that most fans wanted us to sign. It's just that their price tag didn't sit well with some. As a player your price tag will haunt you if it's deemed too high.

Antony hasn't been that bad in my opinion. People need to chill.
 

pocco

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I'm in the same boat too. I was a big advocate of signing him and, whilst I thought he'd do better initially by being more adventurous and looking to take people on, I don't think he's often as bad as people make out. In every game you can see the skill and ability in his feet. It will come together for him eventually. My main question is about his mentality and, when he does find his groove, has he got that killer mentality to stay at that level and become a great Manchester United player? Because I know he'll get there eventually, that's not a question for me. Same with Sancho. I've been convinced by them both before they signed. I haven't forgotten what I saw and how I could picture them becoming very good player, we just need to get them there.
 

FrankDrebin

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People aren't obsessed with numbers (G/A), usually its a cheap shot at people daring to question a players underwhelming performance in a side.

What people/fans are obsessed with are good performances and in that sense Antony is lacking, though against Forest atleast there seemed to be some upturn in that regard.

Odd reaction to Weghorst's goal though.
 

simplyared

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Chairman Steve said:
Mainly the price tag put on his head.

We bought him for potential rather than him being the finished article. He’s doing just fine in my opinion. This is someone who has barely played 100 games in Europe and he’s still relatively young at 22-23.

I think he’ll be a trickster inverted forward who will link up play really well, work off the ball and have an amazing left foot. He will be a nightmare for left backs due to his quick feet. I hope he’s working on his right foot ability because that will bring a significant improvement.
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You and I obviously on the same page. Like your forecast for the continuation!
 

Skills

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NLunited said:
He is doing marginally better every game. Hag is working with him. He pisses me off less now. Still a young player that needs to develop. Trust in Hag.
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Honestly, if Ten Hag gets a tune out of him at this level we'll never need to buy another player again. We should pick one random academy product every few years, and get ETH to develop them as a pet project.
 

Crimson King

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Samid said:

James actually showed more in his early months than Antony has so far.
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Yeah he did, and it quickly dissipated. Another player who our fans on here absolutely tore apart in every thread where his name popped up as well, although that's where the actual similarities end.

If it makes you feel better, maybe the fact that Antony has started off somewhat slowly and is gradually improving is a good sign? Less chance that he'll be a flash in the pan player like James.
 

youngrell

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I like him and think the reactions have been way OTT. He keeps possession very well, which is what EtH wants, he’s a decent ball carrier and helps us move up the pitch well, and he puts in graft too.

His lack of beating a man is a bit of a surprise after watching his highlights at Ajax, but I believe he’s been asked to try and keep the ball moving as a balance to Rashford/Garnacho being the wide man to try to take on the defence.

He had a few bad games immediately after the WC, which could have been due to the WC but he’s been improving in the last few games.

Plenty more to come and ridiculous to write him off so soon.
 

Martial

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The same people would have sold Rashford last season. People are reactionary idiots.
 

eire-red

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Probably overreaction and a bit of herd mentality with regards to the showboating and whatnot.

He came to the squad late, no preseason, big fee, high pressure, different league, only 22 and the fact that he's been written off is insane. Think he'll do just fine once it clicks for him. We look a much more balanced team with him as a genuine right winger.

When you compare the torrid performance our 80m captain has served up for the past couple season, and all the sympathy and excuses he has gotten in the media from current and ex pro's, it seems weird that Antony gets so much stick.

It's even worse when you consider the fanboyism of Grealish, a 100m pound player in the best team in Europe, with the best manager, in his peak, in a league he knows, playing with the best CF in the country while serving up tepid numbers and performances.

Antony strikes me as the type that will love the criticism and look to prove them wrong instead. Keep it coming.
 

Chairman Steve

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I personally believe that he will a valuable player against teams that will sit deep and park the bus, rather than a countering team where his pace would be integral.

His objective will be to wind opposition up, get them booked and link the final third play together. That goal he almost scored where he darted into the Forest penalty box and Hennessey saved it was an example of that latter part. I don’t think someone like Dan James could have pulled that off. Dan James may leave him for dead in the sprint race but Dan James on the ball was almost Championship level. Antony leaves him for dead in that section.

Plus as someone’s already mentioned, he could be following ETH’s instructions to play a bit more conservative. His tracking back ability is pretty good and him taking massive risks, losing the ball, taken out of the phase of a game where the opposition can counter us, is dangerous. We’ve already got Bruno who’s like the high risk/high reward player in our XI. We can’t have too many attacking players like that at any given time. Someones got to be more disciplined in their play.

As I write that last paragraph, I wonder whether that’s why Bruno and Antony argue on the pitch recently. Both guys want to play their natural game, Bruno wins out and Antony’s got to placate to that.
 
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Shane88

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100 fecking million. That's why. How many more times can we afford to be buying disappointments for £70, 80, 90, 100 million?

Despite the lack of end product (0 assists is shameful, to be honest) what is worrying is his inability to last 90 minutes. What is his fitness like?
 

Zoo

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It was positive at the start but that trick he tried to attempt in the EL sparked outrage and now the media are on his case along with the fact that there’s been a dip in form due to injury and the World Cup disruption. He’s getting back track and am confident that he’ll be a success.
 

PoTMS

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Even if he cost £20m, there would still be concern that he doesn't look nearly good enough to be our starting right winger. The fact we spent £85m on such a limited player in a position we've needed upgrading for 10 years is even worse.
 

AltiUn

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phelans shorts said:
Then they’re not watching what’s happening on the pitch.
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Yeah, that must be it. No way two people can watch what happens on the pitch and formulate two different opinions.
 
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