Antony

Daslogisch

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What is everyone’s take on Raphinha vs Antony? I personally would prefer us to sign Raphinha as I feel he is already used to the league and produces similar/better numbers than Antony. He plays more regularly for the Brazil national team. I also think Raphinha’s dribbling is as good as Antony’s. Since Antony is not gonna be a cheap buy, we might as well go for Raphinha instead.
I have seen a lot of Antony and a bit of Raphinha. For me this is also an interesting question. I actually went on youtube to see some comments by Brazilians to get their take on it. I think general consensus is that they're both great, they are positive about both, Raphinha is considered the more straight forward/direct player, who can also play in the #10 position and the feeling I get from it they think Raphinha is better on his weaker foot (Antony does everything with his left foot, which I can pretty much subscribe to). Antony on the other hand is seen as the more skilled and less predictable player and therefore harder to defend.

I don't think Raphinha is more a regular for the Brazilian NT. The last two matches in which Antony featured, Antony was a starting player. After that Antony got injured. They both have equal caps, in which Raphinha made more minutes. Both have about equal stats as well (one goal more for Raphinha, but also more minutes so that basicly evens out). Apparently both have made a very good impact in the times that they played. Obviously Antony is three years younger. I think Raphinha is a good player and at this moment they seem to be quite equal. However if you ask me, Antony has a much higher ceiling and the chance is big that in 3 years this won't be much of a discussion.

I am the first one to admit that I have not seen that much of Raphinha (a few matches only), so that does not give the complete picture. However the feeling I have with him is that he is kind of a one trick pony. I wouldn't be suprised if he gets found out and then he fades. I think Antony has the qualities to keep adapting and be a star at any level. Antony is not near his potential yet.
 

Ali Dia

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I still think he’ll hand in a transfer request and this will get done for 50 plus achievable add ons.

Im starting to feel like we’ve been much too relaxed again this summer so far, we always just seem those few steps behind more organised clubs when it comes to this stuff. If you really need it go hard and get it done and move on. You can always tel the next club “hey we are actually quite skint, we just spent x amount on FDJ or Antony and we still need to get all these players off the wage bill” and the selling club know it has to give some kind of leeway if they want to deal.

This way they know we are obviously just sitting on a load of cash waiting for them to cave by even a few more million. It’s too slow and grinding for an organisation worth billions of pounds that desperately needs to catch up and get a few easy wins under their belt again.
 

croadyman

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Verweij is reliable as it gets for Ajax, so for me we now have three choices

1. Sign alternate RW target
2. Negotiate lower fee for him
3. Prioritise a RWB or DM instead
 

AgentP

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I have seen a lot of Antony and a bit of Raphinha. For me this is also an interesting question. I actually went on youtube to see some comments by Brazilians to get their take on it. I think general consensus is that they're both great, they are positive about both, Raphinha is considered the more straight forward/direct player, who can also play in the #10 position and the feeling I get from it they think Raphinha is better on his weaker foot (Antony does everything with his left foot, which I can pretty much subscribe to). Antony on the other hand is seen as the more skilled and less predictable player and therefore harder to defend.

I don't think Raphinha is more a regular for the Brazilian NT. The last two matches in which Antony featured, Antony was a starting player. After that Antony got injured. They both have equal caps, in which Raphinha made more minutes. Both have about equal stats as well (one goal more for Raphinha, but also more minutes so that basicly evens out). Apparently both have made a very good impact in the times that they played. Obviously Antony is three years younger. I think Raphinha is a good player and at this moment they seem to be quite equal. However if you ask me, Antony has a much higher ceiling and the chance is big that in 3 years this won't be much of a discussion.

I am the first one to admit that I have not seen that much of Raphinha (a few matches only), so that does not give the complete picture. However the feeling I have with him is that he is kind of a one trick pony. I wouldn't be suprised if he gets found out and then he fades. I think Antony has the qualities to keep adapting and be a star at any level. Antony is not near his potential yet.
Appreciate the post. It makes sense we are going for Antony.
 

Woziak

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What a daft thing to bring up. Who gives a feck?

Liverpool shouldn't have hired Klopp because a German had never won the PL.
City shouldn't have hired Guardiola because a Spaniard had never won the PL.
City shouldn't have hired Pellegrini because a Chilean had never won the PL.
Chelsea shouldn't have hired Ancelotti because an Italian had never won the PL.
Chelsea shouldn't have hired Mourinho because a Portuguese had never won the PL.
Arsenal shouldn't have hired Wenger because a Frenchman had never won the PL.



Lamptey is a midget who would be massively exposed defensively in a back four. All of those defenders have one good season under their belt and would be as much of a gamble (or more) as the type of signings you're railing against. Leicester wouldn't sell us Ndidi for £25m in a million years. Kante is showing signs of being past it and injury prone. Eriksen we are, in fact, trying to sign. Tielemans has looked like shit for most of the last season. Bowen would be more like £100m than 50. Raphina wants to go to Barcelona and is as wasteful with the ball as Bruno. Ivan Toney and Danny Ings are Ivan Toney and Danny Ings.

But nevermind that shit, let's be PL Proven FC, because it's worked so well for us with Fellaini, Mata, Schneiderlin, Lukaku, Sanchez, Wan-Bissaka, Maguire...
All of the managers you listed have managed in a more competitive league than the Dutch league at the time and most had success in Europe, Klopp had only reached a CL final before joining Liverpool and his first two years there were forgettable , United probably would have sacked him we are so poorly run. Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti had all won the CL at least once before coming to the PL and Wenger revolutionised English Football at a time when a few pints after the game was the norm. LVG had won everything and was a great coach when he came, it took him time to adjust to the PL and he with all his experience never threatened wining the thing, it’s not about the country of origin, it’s about your pedigree in an increasingly more difficult league where none of us would be that surprised if ETH rolled up in his first game against Brighton at old Trafford and we lost.
My point is either back him for one more spin of the wheel or have a true mid to long term plan where we buy young players and develop rather than spending ridiculous amounts of money on players bought to be the quick fix, and then more often and not can’t handle the pressure of a huge monetary move, or the relentless pace of the Pl and 2 years later we end up selling for 1/5th what we paid to get rid of them. How much is DVB currently worth £10-15M
 

Suv666

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All of the managers you listed have managed in a more competitive league than the Dutch league at the time and most had success in Europe, Klopp had only reached a CL final before joining Liverpool and his first two years there were forgettable , United probably would have sacked him we are so poorly run. Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti had all won the CL at least once before coming to the PL and Wenger revolutionised English Football at a time when a few pints after the game was the norm. LVG had won everything and was a great coach when he came, it took him time to adjust to the PL and he with all his experience never threatened wining the thing, it’s not about the country of origin, it’s about your pedigree in an increasingly more difficult league where none of us would be that surprised if ETH rolled up in his first game against Brighton at old Trafford and we lost.
My point is either back him for one more spin of the wheel or have a true mid to long term plan where we buy young players and develop rather than spending ridiculous amounts of money on players bought to be the quick fix, and then more often and not can’t handle the pressure of a huge monetary move, or the relentless pace of the Pl and 2 years later we end up selling for 1/5th what we paid to get rid of them. How much is DVB currently worth £10-15M
We haven't kicked the ball yet. Fecks sake bore off
 

Woziak

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Antony is the one player I genuinely think could light up old Trafford and the new manager has a unique relationship with him we should leave all the Ajax players alone and negotiate a £60M fee for him, he could be better than Sancho, some would say on last season he already is so if we can get this done for £55-60M I think this is fair price and if he hit 15/20 goals and assists next season the investment worked. His crossing ability for Ronaldo will help the club immensely
 

Coxy

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I can't wait anymore - I'm going to presume we're signing Antony, Eriksen and Frenkie....going to load up a new save on FM with them added :D
 

Andersons Dietician

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Antony is the one player I genuinely think could light up old Trafford and the new manager has a unique relationship with him we should leave all the Ajax players alone and negotiate a £60M fee for him, he could be better than Sancho, some would say on last season he already is so if we can get this done for £55-60M I think this is fair price and if he hit 15/20 goals and assists next season the investment worked. His crossing ability for Ronaldo will help the club immensely
I have my doubts on him, I think he will be a good addition for like 40-50mil but I just don’t see that thing with him that makes me think he is really top quality. Good player but I think he’ll be more Nani like than Robben. He’ll be good enough to get us moving in the right direction hopefully and not be a Memphis Depay.
 

balaks

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I have my doubts on him, I think he will be a good addition for like 40-50mil but I just don’t see that thing with him that makes me think he is really top quality. Good player but I think he’ll be more Nani like than Robben. He’ll be good enough to get us moving in the right direction hopefully and not be a Memphis Depay.
I tend to agree, he looks very lightweight to me and could struggle in the Premiership.
 

Redcy

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I have my doubts on him, I think he will be a good addition for like 40-50mil but I just don’t see that thing with him that makes me think he is really top quality. Good player but I think he’ll be more Nani like than Robben. He’ll be good enough to get us moving in the right direction hopefully and not be a Memphis Depay.
Very different to Depay, very, Depay was actually not that quick and like many forwards in that league benefits from scoring lots against poor defenses. Antony is not that kind of winger/forward at all, the reason to bring him in is the ability to be tactically smart, his retention and ability to get balls in to players who can create chances or score them. The only concern with Antony is why such low assist stats last year, but watching many of the games it seems to me that Ajax were pretty wasteful, yet their stats such as xG / xA do not seem to express that.

Wouldnt pay the 70m for him though, but in truth I am not sure who else would be reasonable given that Leeds want 65m for Raphinha, who by the looks of it doesnt want to join anyone but Barca anyway. Players like Ziyech, etc would probably be just as expensive because of who we are buying from. Sancho cannot play the way Antony does on that right hand side (a mistake from last year).
 

balaks

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Well, that or any of these things:

What a totally pointless comparison of stats that is. One plays in a team that almost got relegated but also was in the hardest league in the world and the other plays for the top team in a much poorer league.
 

Redcy

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I tend to agree, he looks very lightweight to me and could struggle in the Premiership.
I think that is not what you see when you see him play though, he's actually pretty tough both on the ball and in trying to get it back
 

Andersons Dietician

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Very different to Depay, very, Depay was actually not that quick and like many forwards in that league benefits from scoring lots against poor defenses. Antony is not that kind of winger/forward at all, the reason to bring him in is the ability to be tactically smart, his retention and ability to get balls in to players who can create chances or score them. The only concern with Antony is why such low assist stats last year, but watching many of the games it seems to me that Ajax were pretty wasteful, yet their stats such as xG / xA do not seem to express that.

Wouldnt pay the 70m for him though, but in truth I am not sure who else would be reasonable given that Leeds want 65m for Raphinha, who by the looks of it doesnt want to join anyone but Barca anyway. Players like Ziyech, etc would probably be just as expensive because of who we are buying from. Sancho cannot play the way Antony does on that right hand side (a mistake from last year).
The link with Depay was just because Depay failed. Not because he plays like Depay. I’m just not sure he’ll be a sensation but if we can get midfield sorted and just get the team actually playing then he’ll at least be decent. I just don’t see him reaching the levels required to be sensational.

If however ETH wants him and like you say, his retention, work rate and ability to move/circulate a ball can translate to the Prem then he’ll be an improvement on what we currently have.
 

Andersons Dietician

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I tend to agree, he looks very lightweight to me and could struggle in the Premiership.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong I’ll take him at United, I think United need to take a step back and realise where they are and buying solid players that can stabilise us is what we probably need to be doing. Sangare, Antony, Erikson are probably more like the signings we need to be making just to get us moving in the right direction.
 

Idxomer

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What a totally pointless comparison of stats that is. One plays in a team that almost got relegated but also was in the hardest league in the world and the other plays for the top team in a much poorer league.
Raphinha's passing stats weren't any better in the French and Portuguese leagues. This is the type of player he is, he's gonna lose the ball a lot wherever he plays.
 

Tommy79

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Torres and Sanchez were both finished by the time they joined Chelsea/United. I wasn't around to see Gary Birtles. There's also the likes of Mane, Mahrez who were PL proven. Sir Alex frequently signed the best players from other PL teams, think Yorke for example.

It's a bit of a toss up between Raphinha and Antony for me, I'm just keen that we don't massively overpay when other clubs can acquire Ajax's best assets with relative ease and for reasonable fees. A £50m gamble is not what we need right now.
There were a number of reasons for that, as remember till 95 anyone born outside of England (Irish both divides, Scots, Welsh) was considered a foreigner by Uefa and their 8 English and 3 non rule when playing in their comps, also don't forget we couldn't offer or match the wages the Europeans were able to hand out in the 90s which saw us miss out on the big name players, as he went for Kluivert before Yorke but like EVS, Blanc and many others he refused to join, and then we bided for Yorke.

Anyway, I'm Antony on this one due to him playing for our current boss and knowing his system, and to be fair I understand your point on the gamble element, but given the way most of the players we have signed recently haven't turned up trees, Awb, Harry to a degree, James, no matter who we get, at the moment there will always be a gamble element involved.
 

tidraKS

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Raphinha's passing stats weren't any better in the French and Portuguese leagues. This is the type of player he is, he's gonna lose the ball a lot wherever he plays.
Bruno is getting slaughtered for trying to make us look good and losing the ball sometimes. He's been the best player for us in the past 2 years, and now people are trying to make him look like a clown. We need to accept that's fine in some tactics. Sanchez for Arsenal was the same.
 

Shark

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I have my doubts on him, I think he will be a good addition for like 40-50mil but I just don’t see that thing with him that makes me think he is really top quality. Good player but I think he’ll be more Nani like than Robben. He’ll be good enough to get us moving in the right direction hopefully and not be a Memphis Depay.
Personally I'd take a clone of Nani in a heartbeat, considering how average our team is at the minute.
 

DWelbz19

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Raphinha's passing stats weren't any better in the French and Portuguese leagues. This is the type of player he is, he's gonna lose the ball a lot wherever he plays.
Exactly. Playing in the Dutch league won’t make him any less of a heroball high risk high reward type of player.
 

Zehner

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I'm puzzled as to how any fan could not want him for your club. This is a true no brainer for me. Left footed wingers are rare and in high demand, Antony knows the new coach and the new coach knows him. And all that aside, he's clearly top notch quality. Technically one of the best young wingers out there, very fast with high acceleration and on top of it seems to work hard against the ball as well.

I'd take him immediately over a player like Raphinha for example who is very wasteful. Sancho + Antony could become one of the best winger pairings in the world.
 

NinjaZombie

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I'd be happy with just him and De Jong to be honest. Can't fix everything in one window.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Wouldn't mind Olise who has a 35m release clause. Just that he's not as explosive and can't stay wide like Antony so an explosive right back would be very necessary
 

Dazzmondo

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Walk away, Antony will never justify that type of fee. So far our negotiating team seems to be doing a terrible job. Every player we're linked with has been for extortionate prices
 

Rozay

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Walk away, Antony will never justify that type of fee. So far our negotiating team seems to be doing a terrible job. Every player we're linked with has been for extortionate prices
According to the caf this is what we should be doing with all of our targets.
 

The Viper

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I think he'd be a very good buy. Most of the top teams have a lethal left footed winger on them. Can't even remember the last time we had a good right winger in our team. Valencia in his initial season may be ?
If we do end up buying him, hopefully, he can hit the ground running and not take a whole season to settle in PL like most of our other signings in the past.
 

Redcy

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Maybe it has to do with us seemingly shopping exclusively at Ajax?
You mean three transfers that we know we have an interest in, and one at Benfica. Maybe ETH thought we could get them cheaper than we can? We will always be quoted top dollar, because we are always after the best players and we are a rich club.