Antony's PR flops underline a deeper problem: United has no support system for impressionable South American talents.

Suedesi

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I've just read Antony's teary “Seville is more beautiful than Manchester. I spent more than 40 days in a hotel; it was very hard…" cringe-fest and my initial reaction was mate, read the room. You’re not winning anyone over with that. He just comes across whiny and tone-deaf as a player getting 150k pw.

But honestly, as easy as it is to laugh at him, this is bigger than just Antony. United have been a graveyard for South American talent for years now. Di María, Sánchez, Forlán (at least here), Anderson, Rojo, now Antony… all arrived with hype and price tags, and most of them either bombed or never looked comfortable.

We pay crazy fees — €100m in Antony’s case — and then basically throw them in at the deep end. No proper cultural support, no help settling in, no one to manage the mental side. We just assume Old Trafford and the “United aura” will do the job. Meanwhile you’ve got 21-year-olds living in hotels, trying to carry the shirt, and then we act shocked when it goes sideways. Or when Garnacho’s Instagram tantrums knock another £20m off his value (he should normally go for more than friggin Madueke or Elanga!)

Other clubs are smarter about this. Dortmund, Benfica, even bloody Brighton: they build systems to help young foreigners integrate, on and off the pitch. United is simply expecting the glamour of Old Trafford to be enough. It isn’t. We let reputations rot, values nosedive, and end up either flogging them cheap or paying them off to leave.

So yeah, Antony’s PR was shite. But the bigger issue is us as a club. If we don’t finally get serious about player welfare i.e. psychologists, cultural liaisons, proper one-to-one support, then the next talented South American kid we splash on will probably go the same way.
 
We do have a poor track record with South Americans, but a support system wouldn't have made Antony a better fit at United.
 
Suedesi said:
I've just read Antony's teary “Seville is more beautiful than Manchester. I spent more than 40 days in a hotel; it was very hard…" cringe-fest and my initial reaction was mate, read the room. You’re not winning anyone over with that. He just comes across whiny and tone-deaf as a player getting 150k pw.

But honestly, as easy as it is to laugh at him, this is bigger than just Antony. United have been a graveyard for South American talent for years now. Di María, Sánchez, Forlán (at least here), Anderson, Rojo, now Antony… all arrived with hype and price tags, and most of them either bombed or never looked comfortable.

We pay crazy fees — €100m in Antony’s case — and then basically throw them in at the deep end. No proper cultural support, no help settling in, no one to manage the mental side. We just assume Old Trafford and the “United aura” will do the job. Meanwhile you’ve got 21-year-olds living in hotels, trying to carry the shirt, and then we act shocked when it goes sideways. Or when Garnacho’s Instagram tantrums knock another £20m off his value (he should normally go for more than friggin Madueke or Elanga!)

Other clubs are smarter about this. Dortmund, Benfica, even bloody Brighton: they build systems to help young foreigners integrate, on and off the pitch. United is simply expecting the glamour of Old Trafford to be enough. It isn’t. We let reputations rot, values nosedive, and end up either flogging them cheap or paying them off to leave.

So yeah, Antony’s PR was shite. But the bigger issue is us as a club. If we don’t finally get serious about player welfare i.e. psychologists, cultural liaisons, proper one-to-one support, then the next talented South American kid we splash on will probably go the same way.
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Nope. Not having it.

He came from The Netherlands, if directly from Brazil - I could see the argument.

We also supported him whilst he was facing sexual assault accusations.

We have a team of people who look after players.

Antony is a weak man, both mentally and physically. He needs to take some responsibility, but he won’t.

Edit. It’s ambiguous when he spent those ‘40 days in a hotel’, I read it as he’s just been in the hotel over the summer, not when he arrived.
 
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Harsh truth, but fair. The new football department hopefully fixes that also, beside all the other flaws they inherited.

Barcelona was hardly criticized about that already back in Ronaldinho era, how they didn't have support system to keep their talents away from the "night life" & potentially bad influence.
 
Suedesi said:
I've just read Antony's teary “Seville is more beautiful than Manchester. I spent more than 40 days in a hotel; it was very hard…" cringe-fest and my initial reaction was mate, read the room. You’re not winning anyone over with that. He just comes across whiny and tone-deaf as a player getting 150k pw.

But honestly, as easy as it is to laugh at him, this is bigger than just Antony. United have been a graveyard for South American talent for years now. Di María, Sánchez, Forlán (at least here), Anderson, Rojo, now Antony… all arrived with hype and price tags, and most of them either bombed or never looked comfortable.

We pay crazy fees — €100m in Antony’s case — and then basically throw them in at the deep end. No proper cultural support, no help settling in, no one to manage the mental side. We just assume Old Trafford and the “United aura” will do the job. Meanwhile you’ve got 21-year-olds living in hotels, trying to carry the shirt, and then we act shocked when it goes sideways. Or when Garnacho’s Instagram tantrums knock another £20m off his value (he should normally go for more than friggin Madueke or Elanga!)

Other clubs are smarter about this. Dortmund, Benfica, even bloody Brighton: they build systems to help young foreigners integrate, on and off the pitch. United is simply expecting the glamour of Old Trafford to be enough. It isn’t. We let reputations rot, values nosedive, and end up either flogging them cheap or paying them off to leave.

So yeah, Antony’s PR was shite. But the bigger issue is us as a club. If we don’t finally get serious about player welfare i.e. psychologists, cultural liaisons, proper one-to-one support, then the next talented South American kid we splash on will probably go the same way.
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Don’t agree with this at all, if anything we as a club have been shown to support players.

We don’t have a great South American record but some of the players mentioned:

Di Maria, shouldn’t have been signed, didn’t want to come.

Forlan, was supported even when he wasn’t scoring, speaks fondly about the club.

Sanchez, shouldn’t have been signed.

Anderson, injuries and his off the pitch fitness affected his career, still helped us win a CL and prem.

Antony, said at the time was worth no more than 40 million and for whatever reason we decided to spend 89 on him against the recommendation of scouts. Supported him when he had legal troubles put against him.

Rojo, not a great signing and was injured a lot, still supported by the club.

Outside of Forlan, all of these players were already at European clubs, some of them under SAF, I don’t know the exact behind the scenes set up, but I would imagine there is a team to deal with situations like this anyway.
 
A lot of it is still going to be down to the player, no matter how good of a support network you have around them.

Martinez came at the same time from the same club, and now speaks great English, seems very popular in the dressing room and has established himself as part of the leadership group.
 
I do feel for Antony, but as others have said he can not use these sob stories or lack of a support as an excuse having played for Ajax in Amsterdam as well.

You really do only succeed at the top if you’ve got the right mentality. Antony clearly didn’t, proven by his desire to live a cushty life in Seville playing for a cushty average La Liga side.

I admire Antony more than say Sancho, but these characters are the sort of players that clubs carry out personality checks on. There’s a reason no big club came after him even after he massively improved at Betis.
 
Suedesi said:
I've just read Antony's teary “Seville is more beautiful than Manchester. I spent more than 40 days in a hotel; it was very hard…" cringe-fest and my initial reaction was mate, read the room. You’re not winning anyone over with that. He just comes across whiny and tone-deaf as a player getting 150k pw.

But honestly, as easy as it is to laugh at him, this is bigger than just Antony. United have been a graveyard for South American talent for years now. Di María, Sánchez, Forlán (at least here), Anderson, Rojo, now Antony… all arrived with hype and price tags, and most of them either bombed or never looked comfortable.

We pay crazy fees — €100m in Antony’s case — and then basically throw them in at the deep end. No proper cultural support, no help settling in, no one to manage the mental side. We just assume Old Trafford and the “United aura” will do the job. Meanwhile you’ve got 21-year-olds living in hotels, trying to carry the shirt, and then we act shocked when it goes sideways. Or when Garnacho’s Instagram tantrums knock another £20m off his value (he should normally go for more than friggin Madueke or Elanga!)

Other clubs are smarter about this. Dortmund, Benfica, even bloody Brighton: they build systems to help young foreigners integrate, on and off the pitch. United is simply expecting the glamour of Old Trafford to be enough. It isn’t. We let reputations rot, values nosedive, and end up either flogging them cheap or paying them off to leave.

So yeah, Antony’s PR was shite. But the bigger issue is us as a club. If we don’t finally get serious about player welfare i.e. psychologists, cultural liaisons, proper one-to-one support, then the next talented South American kid we splash on will probably go the same way.
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To be fair Garnacho was fairly settled in Manchester and at United. And United are arguably as much responsible as Garnacho for the relatively low fee we got for him.
 
stevoc said:
To be fair Garnacho was fairly settled in Manchester and at United. And United are arguably as much responsible as Garnacho for the relatively low fee we got for him.
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Fair enough, I don’t think Garnacho’s situation is identical to Antony’s as he did seem more settled here. But that almost makes the point stronger: if even a kid who was relatively comfortable in Manchester ends up going for a fee way below his supposed talent ceiling, then clearly the club still aren’t protecting or maximizing their assets properly.

Yes, he’s responsible for some of the noise around him, but United’s job should be to manage both the player and the perception. Other clubs polish their gems before selling , yet we somehow let ours look like liabilities. That’s on the club just as much as the player.
 
Antony: "There are probably some things that I could have done differently, but you have to remember that Manchester is a reprehensible place. You know that Bratislava scene from the movie 'EuroTrip'? Well, imagine that except with rain, shitty food and unattractive people. I actually think Di Maria's wife was being diplomatic with her comments."

Disclaimer: he didn't actually say that.
 
Imagine being 22 (at the time of his move to United) and not being able to sort things for yourself.

If you wanted sunny weather maybe don't move to the UK? If you didn't want to spend 40 days in a hotel, maybe rent a swanky AirBnB for a couple of months? Being on £100k+ a week affords you some luxurious like having a pick of the best places in any area.

Footballers and their PR moves are just getting more and more tiresome. You're being paid a fortune to play a sport, you can choose where you want to live, stop complaining and excusing yourself for failing.

Man babies, guarantee 95% of footballers couldn't book a flight or work certain appliances in their kitchens.

Feck off.
 
couldn't care less about whiny South Americans.

everything seems like a good excuse until you realize there's Caicedo, Ramires and Oscar for every Anderson and Antony.
 
I guess Aguero, Tévez, Valencia, Fernandinho, Ederson, Zabaleta, Julian Alvarez, Otamendi and Gabriel Jesus didn't had that problem.

It's a poor excuse.

Antony couldn't make it here, to blame the city for it it's a garbage excuse. He doesn't have the physicality to make it in the premier league, not technical enough to make up for his lack of explosiveness.

La liga suits him better as it's not as physical, it has nothing to do with the cities of Sevilla or Manchester.
 
Not buying it. Mentality issue. For the vast majority Spain/Portugal and to a lesser extent Italy are better fits lifestyle wise. I like to think those still intrigued by a move to United are more success driven, provided they are well informed of the dire weather.
 
The poor pet couldn't spend some of his vast wealth on an apartment? Cry me a river
 
Lots of posts missing the ubderlying point here. It's not as easy as fancy furniture and a whirlpool. You can be rich and lonely or lost. You integrate and feel at home when you connect to people. Ideally more than 1-2 fellow Spanish/Portuguese speaking ones. And those then ideally make you familiar with your new surroundings, places to go outside the hotel walls and the training ground etc.
 
jadajos said:
Lots of posts missing the ubderlying point here. It's not as easy as fancy furniture and a whirlpool. You can be rich and lonely or lost. You integrate and feel at home when you connect to people. Ideally more than 1-2 fellow Spanish/Portuguese speaking ones.
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There’s loads of Portuguese speakers at the club- the entire coaching staff speak the language as well.
 
We’re a graveyard for everyone and it makes sense the lads from the most different cultures would struggle even more
 
Suedesi said:
Fair enough, I don’t think Garnacho’s situation is identical to Antony’s as he did seem more settled here. But that almost makes the point stronger: if even a kid who was relatively comfortable in Manchester ends up going for a fee way below his supposed talent ceiling, then clearly the club still aren’t protecting or maximizing their assets properly.

Yes, he’s responsible for some of the noise around him, but United’s job should be to manage both the player and the perception. Other clubs polish their gems before selling , yet we somehow let ours look like liabilities. That’s on the club just as much as the player.
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Indeed, public spats with the manager speaking out of turn in public doesn't help. The club really should get a handle on managers airing private club business in press conferences. Nor does the club or at least someone within the club briefing the media that Amorim and the club were desperate to get rid of him.
 
Baneofthegame said:
Don’t agree with this at all, if anything we as a club have been shown to support players.

We don’t have a great South American record but some of the players mentioned:

Di Maria, shouldn’t have been signed, didn’t want to come.

Forlan, was supported even when he wasn’t scoring, speaks fondly about the club.

Sanchez, shouldn’t have been signed.

Anderson, injuries and his off the pitch fitness affected his career, still helped us win a CL and prem.

Antony, said at the time was worth no more than 40 million and for whatever reason we decided to spend 89 on him against the recommendation of scouts. Supported him when he had legal troubles put against him.

Rojo, not a great signing and was injured a lot, still supported by the club.

Outside of Forlan, all of these players were already at European clubs, some of them under SAF, I don’t know the exact behind the scenes set up, but I would imagine there is a team to deal with situations like this anyway.
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Good point about a vast majority coming from European clubs.

The old Neymar ad mocking the idea of a South American footballer moving to Europe springs to mind.



There's something to be said for South American players already being settled at a European club before United consider buying them. Although in Antony's case, it wouldn't have mattered either way since the guy clearly has issues.
 
Rockets Redglare said:
There’s loads of Portuguese speakers at the club- the entire coaching staff speak the language as well.
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Sure, but the question is do they integrate you. I never had language issues in workplaces but I've had terrible onboarding experiences that would have left me isolated in the team and in the city if I hadn't taken it upon myself to actively integrate myself. The language can just become an additional barrier on top.
 
I don't think it's a cultural issue. As a counter-example, look at Rafael/Fabio, Tevez, Lisandro Martínez, C. Ronaldo, David de Gea, Sergio Romero, Gabriel Heinze (yeah he's Judas, but he played pretty ok) of players who came from a Latino / South American background but succeeded.

Rather I think it's a combination of several factors. One, the step up from a foreign league to a physical league like EPL (eg: Veron, who was technically good, but couldn't fit into the physical nature of the EPL) and the scrutiny that a club like Manchester United faces. Several bad performance or making a mistake in your personal life (eg: the court case against Antony) and you'll be hounded by the press. There are other factors of course like players being on the decline, like Alexis Sanchez.

The players above didn't always have an easy ride either but they were mentally strong enough to withstand the constant pressure of being a Man United player, the scrutiny that brings and rising above periods of bad performances. So players like Antony are simply not technically nor mentally strong enough to make it here.

For example, after the 2006 World Cup where Ronaldo got Rooney sent off, there was a constant stream of media barrage against Ronaldo in the English media, but instead he doubled down and worked hard to prove everyone wrong.

Antony was already at an European club and didn't jump straight into Man United from South America, so he should have already adapted culturally to Europe. He's just mentally weak and overly emotional person, who looks macho but is overly sensitive and someone who crumbles when things don't go well, and technically didn't suit the EPL at all.

If anything, when looking at South American players, look for those who are mentally resilient, people like Lisandro, Heinze (yeah feck him, but he was mentally resilient) and not just technical skills. With the new management in place, I'm fairly confident they would have this filter in place.
 
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Sanchez is an odd one to mention in this specific thread, seen as we got him years and years after he was living in London and playing for Arsenal. At the end of the day, most of those players never settled with us due to a combination of them just being not good enough, had the wrong mentality, didn’t want to be here or were over the hill.

I’m sure the club offers (or at the very least, can help them source) any sort of help they might need to settle - from translators, chefs, PA’s. Hell, if the club doesn’t do it, they have agents, don’t they? I’m sure there’s something in it, generally speaking. South Americans do tend to prefer countries like Spain or Portugal over England for the weather, food, culture etc. but I don’t think it’s a United problem specifically. We’ve just signed a ton of duds - and that’s from all continents, not just South America.
 
People should take whatever Antony says with a pinch of salt. He was a pain in the *** at Ajax and will always be a pain in the ***.
 
He lived in Amsterdam for two years, which isn’t that different climate wise to the UK. Didn’t he also make a big thing about being from the slums of São Paulo? Yet living in the Lowry is a big problem for him. Embarrassing.
 
Baneofthegame said:
Don’t agree with this at all, if anything we as a club have been shown to support players.

We don’t have a great South American record but some of the players mentioned:

Di Maria, shouldn’t have been signed, didn’t want to come.

Forlan, was supported even when he wasn’t scoring, speaks fondly about the club.

Sanchez, shouldn’t have been signed.

Anderson, injuries and his off the pitch fitness affected his career, still helped us win a CL and prem.

Antony, said at the time was worth no more than 40 million and for whatever reason we decided to spend 89 on him against the recommendation of scouts. Supported him when he had legal troubles put against him.

Rojo, not a great signing and was injured a lot, still supported by the club.

Outside of Forlan, all of these players were already at European clubs, some of them under SAF, I don’t know the exact behind the scenes set up, but I would imagine there is a team to deal with situations like this anyway.
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I don’t doubt the club “supports” players in the basic sense — they get paid, rehabbed, and not thrown out the door the second things go wrong. But that’s not the same as properly managing integration and reputation.

Di María is the perfect example: yes, he didn’t want to be here, but PSG managed to make him thrive for years. At United he looked done after three months. That’s not just on him, part of it was Van Gaal and the club for not making him feel like part of the project. Forlán’s a great example actually — he’s one of the rare South Americans who does speak warmly of the club, but it still took him leaving to reach his potential.

On Antony everyone agrees the fee was insane, but if you spend close to €100m on a player you don’t just shrug when he spirals into PR clangers and tanks his own market value. You protect the investment. Instead, we ended up in a single-club standoff with Betis because there was no strategic handling.

So sure, some of these guys were bad signings to begin with, but the pattern is clear. Other clubs (Dortmund, Benfica, Porto, even Brighton) consistently add value to their imports. We keep seeing ours lose value. That says our “support” isn’t really doing the job.
 
dubplate warrior said:
He's a bitch.
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In my opinion, this is the most correct response to that interview.

Also as plenty mentioned in here he lived in Amsterdam and also he got plenty support here, even during his trial.
 
Raoul said:
Good point about a vast majority coming from European clubs.

The old Neymar ad mocking the idea of a South American footballer moving to Europe springs to mind.



There's something to be said for South American players already being settled at a European club before United consider buying them. Although in Antony's case, it wouldn't have mattered either way since the guy clearly has issues.
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Let’s be real: for a young Brazilian or South American, life in Spain or Portugal, where they speak the language, eat the food they grew up with, and instantly click culturally, is always going to be a far easier landing than bloody Manchester.

That’s all the more reason United need proper systems in place. Otherwise, we’ll keep paying record fees for kids who’d rather be anywhere else and wonder why it doesn’t work out.
 
Nah. They're just cnuts in general and we have cherry picked the top tier cnuts unfortunately.
 
He lived in Holland for several years and if he can adapt to life in Holland he can adapt to life in North West England ffs.
 
I think this might have more to do with young players signing for United becoming a) extremely wealthy while b) facing incomparably high pressure and international scrutiny. I also believe the cultural aspect should not be underestimated. I wouldn't be surprised if United are not paying much attention to small details that could help accommodate players arriving from afar just a little bit better.


That said, Antony, thanks for nothing. Good luck.
 
This is why I don't rate South American players that only play in Spain. Its not South American struggling to adapt to United, its South Americans struggles to adapt to England.

When you compare The best South American Players in PL history (No order)
  1. Luis Suarez
  2. Aguero
  3. Firminho
  4. Alexis Sanchez
  5. Tevez
Then compare to the best South American talents in La Liga history (No order)
  1. Messi
  2. Brazilian Ronaldo
  3. Ronaldinho
  4. Neymar
  5. Di Stefano
  6. Maradona
  7. Rivaldo
  8. Dani Alves
  9. Roberto Carlos
  10. Many more
The difference in quality of South American talent playing in Spain is much different to South American talents playing in England.

Then on the otherside
Best British Players to play in La Liga had lower quality of output except for Bale

1. Bale
2. Beckham
3.Owen
4. Mcmanaman
5. Lineker

Best PL British Players in No order
1. Charlton
2. Best
3. Gerrard
4. Lampard
5. Scholes
6. Rooney
7. Shearer
8. Kane
9. Rio Ferdinand

Many would argue that the 2nd lot had much better quality and output in the PL.

This is why La Liga fans don't rate PL only players as highly and its why I don't rate La Liga players as highly as they don't do it out of their own comfort zone.

South America stylistically and culturally is very similar to Spain, Portugal and then Italy.

It's why alot of these South American players fail when moving to the PL because its not culturally right for them & it's probably the same for most British players that played abroad in the past generation.

I went to Thailand to live with my new partner & 6 months later after the initial dopamine rush I wanted to get out of there very quickly because its not what I call "home".

This is why I rate players that do it in the hardest leagues, in different countries and outside of their comfort zone simply the best.

Not just some South American player that plays in a simple La Liga all his life sipping Pina Coladas having a relative stress free life culturally to their own needs and then being absolutely monsters in the champions league like it was a toughest challenge of their life.

Life is easier for anyone if they are in their own comfort zone. To you, to me, to us and all people whether your a doctor, a builder or a footballer.

That's why footballers succeeding in different leagues is where personally I see the most quality in a player, as they have adapted and proven to play football anywhere across the world be that both in their own heaven or in their own hell.

Other examples from recent years - Julian Alvarez City to Atheltico. Hazard PL to La Liga, Forlan to La Liga, Falcao, Veron. Many more examples.
 
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Suedesi said:
I've just read Antony's teary “Seville is more beautiful than Manchester. I spent more than 40 days in a hotel; it was very hard…" cringe-fest and my initial reaction was mate, read the room. You’re not winning anyone over with that. He just comes across whiny and tone-deaf as a player getting 150k pw.

But honestly, as easy as it is to laugh at him, this is bigger than just Antony. United have been a graveyard for South American talent for years now. Di María, Sánchez, Forlán (at least here), Anderson, Rojo, now Antony… all arrived with hype and price tags, and most of them either bombed or never looked comfortable.

We pay crazy fees — €100m in Antony’s case — and then basically throw them in at the deep end. No proper cultural support, no help settling in, no one to manage the mental side. We just assume Old Trafford and the “United aura” will do the job. Meanwhile you’ve got 21-year-olds living in hotels, trying to carry the shirt, and then we act shocked when it goes sideways. Or when Garnacho’s Instagram tantrums knock another £20m off his value (he should normally go for more than friggin Madueke or Elanga!)

Other clubs are smarter about this. Dortmund, Benfica, even bloody Brighton: they build systems to help young foreigners integrate, on and off the pitch. United is simply expecting the glamour of Old Trafford to be enough. It isn’t. We let reputations rot, values nosedive, and end up either flogging them cheap or paying them off to leave.

So yeah, Antony’s PR was shite. But the bigger issue is us as a club. If we don’t finally get serious about player welfare i.e. psychologists, cultural liaisons, proper one-to-one support, then the next talented South American kid we splash on will probably go the same way.
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We knocked all the money off Garnacho's sale by ostracizing him and being the team that needed to find a solution before the end of the window. Agree with the rest but its insane to think Chelsea are valuaing him based on instagram posts.
 
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