Red Dreams said:
Things have changed a bit at OT though. Wheras Butt was the automatic chioce for a defensive midfielder to back up Keane, we now have Kleberson, Fortune and D2. Not sure Butt will get the run.
"Anyone Butt"?
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Things have changed a bit at OT though. Wheras Butt was the automatic chioce for a defensive midfielder to back up Keane, we now have Kleberson, Fortune and D2. Not sure Butt will get the run.
I would play Djemba Djemba ahead of Butt in any competition based on current form, not past glories.Mr. Bungle said:If we drew AC Milan or Juventus in the Champions Leahue Quarter Finals, would you seriously choose Djemba-Djemba over Nicky Butt?
Hypothetically would you choose Phil over Nicky? Possibly.
Kleberson? Not at the moment.
If we have any aspirations of winning the Champions League in the next couple of seasons (which I seriously doubt at the moment) we need to forget about our 'developing' and currently substandard squad players bought "for the future" and start thinking about who can benefit our team at the present moment.
Citing Djemba-Djemba and an abundance of 'okay' midfielders as a good reason for selling Nicky Butt, is like citing Daniel Nardiello as a valid reason for selling Ruud.
While I won’t sell Butt until I am 101% certain that Djemba and Kleb can do the job, I believe that at the moment Djemba should be considered as a better option than Butt.
I mean, the Cameroonian international is physically stronger than Butt, and although he is not as experienced to our game play as Nicky Butt is, Djemba superior all round talent compensates to this weakness.
As stated before, what is damaging Butt is his current attitude to impress. I mean Butt is a good tackler and a very hardworking player, yet, he always opt for the spectacular option whom, unfortunately, he doesn’t have the characteristics to fulfill that role.
I think that Butt is obsessed in being Keano’s successor, when the truth is that he could do a better job at the other defensive slot, were Butt’s strengths are exploited to the full.
I mean, the Cameroonian international is physically stronger than Butt, and although he is not as experienced to our game play as Nicky Butt is, Djemba superior all round talent compensates to this weakness.
As stated before, what is damaging Butt is his current attitude to impress. I mean Butt is a good tackler and a very hardworking player, yet, he always opt for the spectacular option whom, unfortunately, he doesn’t have the characteristics to fulfill that role.
I think that Butt is obsessed in being Keano’s successor, when the truth is that he could do a better job at the other defensive slot, were Butt’s strengths are exploited to the full.
Im not sure that either DJ 2 or Klberson are adequate replacements for Keane, in his current holding role, or Phil. They seem to be more suited to attacking roles although on evidence so far DJ2 seems to have considerable all round talent and could eventually be the box to box type player to replace keane. In the meantime Butt is the ideal replacement for either Roy or Phil in that midfield holding role. Having said that I thought he was pretty poor against Pana, giving the ball away far too many times. He may be "rusty" but these opportunities in the first team need to be seized when you're on the periphery of things
Butt can never replace Keano. He doesnt have the overrall talent to fullfill that roleJulian Denny said:
Agreed but apart from Phil he's the only one who can play Keane's current role of DM. DJ2 probably is the more likely of all our midfielders to replace the Roy of old, although realistically that maybe an impossibility. Whilst SAF needs Roy and Phil in holding roles to protect the back four and make us harder to beat, Butt seems to be ideal back up for those two.devilish said:
any truth to reports *** he's increasingly unhappy about his lack of first team chances? one report mentioned *** he was arguing wif SAF juz before half-time in the pana game? is that right?
I see Fletcher eventually to be the player who takes over from Keane. He will not play like Keane does...more like Vieira. I see Rio taking over the Captains driving role. Kleb and Djemba are going to be wonderful players.
Hold on, hold on - can anybody on this forum REALLY think that Nicky Butt is on his way out of Old Trafford in the future, near or otherwise, unless it`s for retirement?
Ask yourself this question: `Can I really see Nicky Butt in a Spurs shirt or any other football club`s shirt?` The honest answer has to be an emphatic `NO`. The lad is a Red Devil through and through. He will do anything to demonstrate to Sir Alex and his team mates that he is part of the first team. The lad`s determined - he will plug away and do what it takes to be in contention for a first team spot again.
The day Nicky Butt will not be in an MU shirt will be the day he quits football. There is a real sense of deja vu about this thread - Phil Neville has had similar threads written about him for a few years and posters such as myself always argued back with the line about how Phil`s loyalty and grit would see him come back into contention.
Despite Nicky`s flaws he has that priceless quality that Sir Alex admires -he will knuckle down under criticism and he has the class to dominate when he does things simply. Look at the World Cup. He can reprouce that form for United and Sir Alex will be patient enough to wait for it.
Ask yourself this question: `Can I really see Nicky Butt in a Spurs shirt or any other football club`s shirt?` The honest answer has to be an emphatic `NO`. The lad is a Red Devil through and through. He will do anything to demonstrate to Sir Alex and his team mates that he is part of the first team. The lad`s determined - he will plug away and do what it takes to be in contention for a first team spot again.
The day Nicky Butt will not be in an MU shirt will be the day he quits football. There is a real sense of deja vu about this thread - Phil Neville has had similar threads written about him for a few years and posters such as myself always argued back with the line about how Phil`s loyalty and grit would see him come back into contention.
Despite Nicky`s flaws he has that priceless quality that Sir Alex admires -he will knuckle down under criticism and he has the class to dominate when he does things simply. Look at the World Cup. He can reprouce that form for United and Sir Alex will be patient enough to wait for it.
Couldn't see MarK Hughes in a Chelsea shirt.giggsgirl said:Hold on, hold on - can anybody on this forum REALLY think that Nicky Butt is on his way out of Old Trafford in the future, near or otherwise, unless it`s for retirement?
Ask yourself this question: `Can I really see Nicky Butt in a Spurs shirt or any other football club`s shirt?` The honest answer has to be an emphatic `NO`. The lad is a Red Devil through and through. He will do anything to demonstrate to Sir Alex and his team mates that he is part of the first team. The lad`s determined - he will plug away and do what it takes to be in contention for a first team spot again.
The day Nicky Butt will not be in an MU shirt will be the day he quits football. There is a real sense of deja vu about this thread - Phil Neville has had similar threads written about him for a few years and posters such as myself always argued back with the line about how Phil`s loyalty and grit would see him come back into contention.
Despite Nicky`s flaws he has that priceless quality that Sir Alex admires -he will knuckle down under criticism and he has the class to dominate when he does things simply. Look at the World Cup. He can reprouce that form for United and Sir Alex will be patient enough to wait for it.
Denis Law in a city shirt.
David Beckham in a Real shirt.
No difference for Butt.
Fletcher's play is quite different from Vieira's. Can't really work out what SAF's plan is for the midfield...if we're going to continue with 4-2-3-1 (and oh how i long for 4-4-2 - how much better were we when Bellion came on alongside Diego at pana? how many more would Ruud score with a proper partner?), how is he going to use the players he's got/getting. Currently we haveRed Dreams said:
Phil - excellent defensively, mopping up, keeping it simple; not great going forward
Butty - ditto when he does keep it simple, can keep the team ticking over; maybe will never quite make it in the first team
Fletch - decent tackler, has that 'killer pass' and can make surging runs; raw and unproven
Kleb - decent at mopping up, great passer both simple and defence-splitting, eye for goal; doesn't seem to dominate/impose himself on a game (as yet)
Jim Pakistan - good tackler, good runs and passing...maybe goalscorer too; unproven but good potential
Quinton - good tackler, good at the simple ball and recently shown he can split defenses too, runs well with the ball; to me, still doesn't look like he has the class for the highest level, ie CL/Arse(/Chelsea?
)Keano - Keano.
Coming through (?) Jones, Byrne, Wood - great names in the United tradition, none of them look quite like they'll make it as yet. Ngalula from the U19s sounds like he might have what it takes though.
Transfers: talk is of Scott Parker and Liam Miller - first more defensive but all-action, great engine, 2nd more attacking in the Keano mould.
So, would the idea be to rotate midfield pairings with one more defensive, keeping things ticking over, but still able to make surging runs, and the other a decent tackler but mainly a great passer with an eye for goal? In which case, post-Keano
, we could be looking atPhil, Djemba, ?Parker? holding things together with
Fletch, Kleb, ?Miller? doing their stuff beside them.
Sounds OK to me...any thoughts?
I agree, except I don't think Fletcher is good enough defensively to play in even the more attacking of the two holding positions.
Travis makes a fair point about Law, Hughes and Beckham but I maintain Butt`s situation is different.
Denis Law - was ousted by Tommy Docherty, a manager who got MU playing some attractive football but was ruthless in his desire to banish the old guard. In George Best`s case I understand completely but the Lawman most likely still had something to offer United.
Hughes - made way for fresher legs athough in hindsight MU could have done with another season from him. Hughes did not have the youth connection with Old Trafford that Nicky has - he was bought as an outsider.
Beckham - his departure was both unexpected yet not surprising. Everybody who followed his career in its later stages understood that he was no long the unspoilt lad from Chingford.
He became a celebrity (courted it in fact instead of his claim that the media created all the fuss) and when those who follow MU closely started learning about his agent and management group`s activities and his increasing demands, it began to look like there was the possibility of Becks going elsewhere.
I was sad but not really surprised that he went to Real Madrid, given their policy of snapping up the best and or best know players in Europe, and their urge to compete with MU in the world popularity stakes.
Denis Law - was ousted by Tommy Docherty, a manager who got MU playing some attractive football but was ruthless in his desire to banish the old guard. In George Best`s case I understand completely but the Lawman most likely still had something to offer United.
Hughes - made way for fresher legs athough in hindsight MU could have done with another season from him. Hughes did not have the youth connection with Old Trafford that Nicky has - he was bought as an outsider.
Beckham - his departure was both unexpected yet not surprising. Everybody who followed his career in its later stages understood that he was no long the unspoilt lad from Chingford.
He became a celebrity (courted it in fact instead of his claim that the media created all the fuss) and when those who follow MU closely started learning about his agent and management group`s activities and his increasing demands, it began to look like there was the possibility of Becks going elsewhere.
I was sad but not really surprised that he went to Real Madrid, given their policy of snapping up the best and or best know players in Europe, and their urge to compete with MU in the world popularity stakes.
Hughes came through our youth system.He was not bought in his first spell with the club
Ooops, sorry. Now there is a gap in my knowledge .....
But I maintain Nicky`s case is different from those of Law, Hughes and Beckham and resembles that of Phil Neville who stuck it out to prove that he is needed here.
But I maintain Nicky`s case is different from those of Law, Hughes and Beckham and resembles that of Phil Neville who stuck it out to prove that he is needed here.
After Sat's match..need we say anymore. Butt wasn't even in the first 11 which were outplayed by Chelsea. Chaps, we have got to face up to reality. For United to stay dominant in England as well as in Europe, we need more creative attacking players. Butt would be a good player for a mid tier Premieership team like Middlesborough and Charlton etc...
How much do you think Butt would fetch in the transfer mkt next yr? If he does get called up to the English team for Euro 2004, we should be able to get at least 5 mil for him. Honestly, I wouldn't mind selling him and maybe Forlan in order for the board to come up with the necessary $$ to get RDV (perhaps 20-25 mil)!