Everybody is assuming Smalling will be happy being a back up, the reason he left in the first place. Get a fee for him and move on, best for everyone.
Apart from his passing, what did Smalling actually do wrong? And are you against him coming back next season?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Just imagine what kind of price Roma would charge us if he was their player and we were looking to buy him. Their offer is a bit insulting.
I would take him back no problem, he’s supposedly a good lad but I’d rather the money to reinvest. I think it’s best for all parties to try something new. I don’t think we will have a problem selling him after the season he’s just had to be honest so he probably won’t be back here for very long.
The issue for Smalling is that we now choose to play the ball short from the keeper and through the opposition press whenever we can, which puts a huge emphasis on the passing ability of your defenders. Accommodating Smalling would mean ditching this plan altogether, and was probably the reason that Ole let him ship out in the first place. I dont see Ole ditching the idea just for Smalling to be honest.
It's insulting quite frankly. They'll have no problem selling on the cheap to domestic rivals while charging absurd premiums to foreign club and expecting discounts when it comes to buying from said clubs
To be slightly fair to Roma though, they're in dire financial situation at the moment but that doesn't mean we should let Smalling go for peanuts
Spot on.
I have been following the Serie A for a long long time. I know Italian and I follow Italian media. Here is what I thinkIt's insulting quite frankly. They'll have no problem selling on the cheap to domestic rivals while charging absurd premiums to foreign club and expecting discounts when it comes to buying from said clubs
To be slightly fair to Roma though, they're in dire financial situation at the moment but that doesn't mean we should let Smalling go for peanuts
a- Italian clubs think that the British clubs are managed by a bunch of morons. Memories about how undisciplined Gazza was and how inflexible Rush was are still alive and kicking. These sort of antics wouldn't be accepted at their club. If you ask Italians to describe British players who were successful in the Serie A then they would describe Charles's or Ince's physical aspects rather then just say that they were talented players. That doesn't happen with lets say the Dutch even though the likes of Van Basten or Rijkaard weren't exactly imps
b- They think that British clubs are so loaded that they would do anything to get their man and wouldn't mind losing money to get rid of players they don't want. On that regard they kind of right.Chelsea paid silly money to get Cuadrado while we did the same for Taibi and Pogba. However unlike Italian clubs whom at their prime were lead by sugar daddies driven by emotion and ego, the EPL clubs are managed by people who are accountable to their owners. They can't just throw a valuable asset out of the window just because the manager doesn't like the guy.
It's true that Roma are in dire financial trouble however it's also true that the situation would have been the same at any other Serie A club. They think we're an easy target.
You didn't answer the question(s). Do you not intend to?
1) That game where one poster suggests players while another one poo-poos every suggestion to prove their previous argument right is amongst the most futile wastes of time see on here, so no, I don’t intend to go down that road. Let’s just assume you didn’t agree with anyone I said.
2) The idea that we need to spend £60m to get a better defender in the group than Smalling, no I don’t agree.
3) After Sancho, it’s equally important as any other position.
Could Inter do us a favour they seem to have money ,if not a swap deal involving Smalling , Sanchez for Bastoni could that work and do you rate Bastoni would he be worthy investment and would Inter be interested in such a deal as they paid big money for him.
1. I have no interest in silly back and forths - that's not my intention with asking you: simply asking for names as the attributes Smalling has come at a premium and, unless you can tell me otherwise, are not easy to come by in any cheapened package, which is why Smalling being here next season whilst we take care of other issues in the side makes more sense to me than the outlay needed to get in the level of CB that not only outright usurps Lindelof and Smalling, but is also what would be our best CB, outright. That doesn't come cheap, or does it?
2. I checked your posts just to be sure I wasn't missing you naming some players, but I've not seen you mention anyone but Ake? And he's not the measure of Smalling as an actual CB, is he? I absolutely agree with anyone in this thread pointing out Smalling's issues being his first touch, and further, his passing, but there's still another side to the discussion, that being Smalling is a very difficult CB to take to task with his weaknesses not being physical. We've nobody else at the club who can outdo Smalling across the full gamut of actual defending.
3. That's probably a fair comment, only that the step down at DM from Matic is a void, where, at CB, Smalling clearly carries more weight as some state they'd be happy for him to be our starting CB going into next term. We don't have a Smalling equivalent in other areas of the pitch, which automatically makes them more of a priority, logically.
Inter is the craziest club in the world. They even acknowledge it in their song (pazza inter amala ie crazy Inter you have to love it). Their knee jerk reaction makes United under Woodward look like as stable as when we were under Sir Alex. So to answer your question, god knows how Inter would react.
I rate Bastoni highly and I wanted us to involve him and Esposito in the Lukaku deal tbh. Will they do the same for Sanchez/Smalling? There's a bigger chance of them accepting if they are desperate in signing a player from us and I cant see Inter being desperate in signing the pair
Smalling wanted a permanent move to Roma. That's enough to not warrant a place at the club, i'm not saying its wrong of him to want so, he's a national team player that deserves first team minutes, Sell him and move on.
The whole reason we did so well the end of this season was because Ole made sure only those who played for the club, played for the club.
The whole reason we did so well the end of this season was because Ole made sure only those who played for the club, played for the club.
But imagine Smalling and Bailly playing together... The opposition would just be practicing penalties leading up to the match.
Last season I was sanguine about Smalling being around because on the traditional defending side of things he’s pretty solid. But what’s changed my mind is that, as I mentioned to another poster earlier, towards the end of the season it became apparent our Plan A is now to take it short from kick off, invite on the press and pass our way through it in order to generate space for our midfielders and attackers to pass quickly forward, a pretty common approach from the top teams. Sadly, while Smalling has his merits, he’s completely incompatible with that approach. The thought of Smalling playing one-twos with De Gea twelve yards from goal with a player pressing him gives me vertigo. Him being in the team would mean we’d have to stop doing this, which means he’s hard to even keep as backup, because even your backups need to be able to execute your first team’s plan.
Time was defending meant heading, tackling, marking etc and being a decent passer was a bonus. But in an era of every big team, and a few not so big teams, pressing from the front, high quality passing is defending. If you can’t pass your entire first team has to work around that. Even Maguire and Lindelöf have struggled with passing through a decent press at times, and they’re certainly more capable than Smalling. I don’t see how he can fit in our first team without us changing our approach to accommodate him, and he certainly isn’t good enough to justify that.
That's all fair enough. I'm certainly not going to argue against it because I'm in agreement with the majority.
But the question is whether Smalling being in the team is worse than what we'll have to resort to without a Matic at DM or with an injury to a player in another position where we're so thin and lacking quality, Ole doesn't even want to field his substitutes.
What, ultimately, do you believe will/would prove more costly?
No Matic, we have zero means to execute within the same system and have to change our whole midfield to accomodate Fred or McTominay; no Shaw, and the level down to Williams is massive; RB is questionable irrespective of who starts there.
These are bigger issues than Smalling at the back and will cost us more points, imo, which is the reason I'd tend to those matters first and foremost.
Maguire and Lindelof are definitely better on the ball, but if Ole's requirement on the centre back is to make a simple pass to the midfielders and let them do the rest (which is exactly what happening), Smalling is more than capable to do the same. He may look clumsy at times, he may lose a few more possessions, but I wouldn't say he's completely incompatible with this kind of instruction.
That is definitely not what we finished last season doing. We were passing through the press.
What an odd comment.
Fred and McTominay were excellent at points last season, and Pogba and Bruno are obviously not playing every game all season. Playing Fred and McTominay in midfield with either Bruno or Pogba ahead of them doesn’t require so much as a change in formation, so I’m not sure why you’re labouring that point.
Pretty unsportmanlike behaviour using covid as an advantage in the UEL honestly.
It's actually worst for us. Unless you're fine we go next season, potentially with only 2 recognized CB just like this season. Would you put your money on Bailly and Tuanzebe suddenly become fit the whole season? I won't.
How much do you think to get a player like Smalling (from the League) will cost? I'm not even talking about an up-grade; just similar experience and ability (League and CL experience, didn't look worse against best of the best)? We'll be in Champions League next season, that at least twice more difficult than Europa League.
There's Vertonghen for free. His sign in fee + wage + contract would cost a bomb, and he's as slow as others we have.
Of course this all become moot point if we spend 50+m on upcoming CB though, which I don't see it happens on this window.
Surely it’s your own club you should be unhappy with, trying to penny pinch?
Chris Smalling is 30 and we have seen what he has to offer. He's not able to play out from the back. Ole isn't going to be developing him to so that now, it's not Smalling's game. We need to look to the future, who's young and hungry to come in now that can develop. Your right we don't have enough reliable options. No need to keep the same players and hope for a different result. We need to bring a really good fast CB in. Vertonghen is done, don't know why you mentioned him. We don't have to spend 50m on a CB, the right scouting through Europe combined with the pandemic.
I don't think the partnership of Maguire and Lindelof is the answer. They are too similar, we need a faster player better on the ball. I just don't understand the club at times. Giving huge contracts to players that don't perform. We struggle to get rid of them because of wages. How Phil Jones got that contract I'll never understand, we are not making any money on these players selling them on. Need to cut our losses with some of this dead wood.
Apart from the bit about Evans being a quality defender.
You think we should let you play our player deep into August, when you're trying to mess us about regarding his signing?
What sort of mugs do you think we are? It's bad enough you got him on loan for a year for buttons.
Yes. I'm up for it, getting a new CB that can be developed to Ole's vision/style. Then it makes sense to let go Smalling, either funding that transfer or allowing the new CB more game time.
I just don't see we'll get one this window. It's even more difficult to get one mid-season. Rely on 2 CBs again next season is walking on a tight tiny rope. I don't see why it should happen again, where this season is a lesson to learn.
I watched the FA Cup Final yesterday, thinking if Smalling would improve their defence. The answer is absolute yes. And they both are also not a hoofball teams, especially Arsenal under Arteta. I don't see United under Ole is so special, that the team always need to build from the back at all cost; thus render Smalling as a non-functional CB if he stays. We often see our CBs launching long-balls to nowhere, or even misplaced passes.
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Sounds like Roma have signed Vertonghen 'on a free' to replace Smalling. Very snidey and clever way to exploit the current market.
So Smalling definitely coming back to Manchester unless we can find a new buyer.
Not sure what you think is odd about the statement - Smalling is a liability in terms of playing out from the back, but there's clearly more to the issue than that.
Fred and McTominay with only one attacking midfielder ahead of them is not at all similar to one from the two with Pogba and Fernandes ahead of them. That role requires a specialised defensive midfielder otherwise the entire set up is compromised. In turn, that means if Mactic doesn't play, is tired or off form, we either drop one from Fernandes or Pogba (not realistic) or we try and stuff one from two players who are not defensive midfielders into the role, which is wrought with more risk than fielding Smalling as you then have a midfield that is as porous as a sieve.
You can go around our team and the issue remains - take the first-teamer out, and we're compromised far more than we would be with Smalling in the team because the drop in quality is significant.
I heard that Serie A has lower tax, so they could offer lower wage than what PL teams need to offer. And I can see why Serie A teams prefers Vertonghen. He's arguably a better footballer than Smalling, and their league could accomodate a slower CB.
If United are willing to sell Smalling to PL team, I think there will be some very decent offers.
Evans is a quality defender, he showed it at West Brom and he now proves it again at Leicester. More importantly, he is very comfortable with the ball at his feet, and he is capable of bringing the ball out of defence as well as picking long passes with both feet. I guess this is an attribute many prioritize nowadays, particularly in the thread, unless people start to move the goalposts again.
I agree with a lot of this, I have no issue with Smalling being a squad player. We need a fresh start to play out from the back. Maguire had a mixed season, I genuinely believe Lindelof is uncomfortable playing the ball out. He seems to panic and take the safe option, we need speed and risk in our passing going forward. We seem to be dangerous in the opposition half it's just working it up. Axel is the only one I think could turn it around. I have no faith in Bailly, Jones and Rojo, all need binned. Get what you can and upgrade now.
I think there's quite a lot who would doubt the quality defender bit.
We got just a little taster of Evans revisited in the last few games of the season.
People have always been exaggerating the importance and effectiveness of playing out. In 6 games out of 10, our opponents just sit back and our CBs have all the time and space to build up from the back, and Smalling certainly has no problem doing that; another 2 games out of 10 we face some sort of pressing from the opposition where we try to break with short passes, and Smalling is more than capable of making those simple passes to the midfielders (he may misplace some but so as Maguire and Lindelof); for the remaining 2 games the pressing is so intense that even Maguire and Lindelof are also hoofing the ball away, so I don't see any difference.
Agreed, man. And also how often did we see Matic dropping back to form almost 3 man defence? People thought that this would never happen if we have two "ball-playing" CB, thus allowing midfield to press higher.
But obviously this fact hit really hard, it does happen often. And then this "CM advantage" of ball-playing CB is conveniently forgotten by some.
Better than Lindelöf
To be fair, he conceded 4 penalties this season (more than the entire United) but I think it was mostly for handballs.
He has no choice, tbf. He has signed a contract. And it is not like United is being very unfair, asking 20m for him is quite reasonable.
Please no. Dont wanna watch this again - Smalling with the ball at his feet its like Bambi on ice. Gotta admit his pure defensive qualities and 1v1s are pretty good,but hes not a good footballer overall. His time at Man Utd is over, same with Jones, we need to move on from all these players from the past era.
Going by the first page, I thought by the 10th, Smalling would have been crowned best defender in Europe.
Alas!!
Alas!!
At defending, yes. At playing out from the back, no. Can you not envision how teams who press high would cut out his easy passing lanes and force him to play. As it is we've got a weakness with that style in de Gea, and to some extent AWB.
Buying a new left-footed centre back makes a lot of sense, effectively makes Lindelof third choice, and hopefully Tuanzebe can get and stay fit and be fourth choice.
Of the players we are not relying on, Lingard and Smalling will probably fetch the highest fees, and we probably need money if we're to address needs in midfield.
Not good enough with the ball at his feet. Terrible at weighting his passes. Often played his team mates into trouble needlessly. Dwelt far too long on the ball. Liable to panic and hit long balls to no one.
Having said all that, he's not actually any worse with the ball than AWB.
Having said all that, he's not actually any worse with the ball than AWB.