Valencia Shin Crosses
Full Member
Well when you as a defender are prone to grabbing people in the box as well as being petrified of playing with the ball, I couldn’t give a shit how good you are at tackling.
He would have stayed this season if he had been fine to be a rotational option. He wants to be a main player, so he left on loan.He's better than Jones, Rojo & Baily.
Perfectly happy to have him back as a rotation option, alongside Axel.
There could be a lot of games next year.
If that's the case he can stay in ItalyHe would have stayed this season if he had been fine to be a rotational option. He wants to be a main player, so he left on loan.
Lindelof and Maguire get rarely injured. Unless some freak injury happens, they are gonna play in EPL and UCL. Which leaves only the two domestic cups for whoever is backup.He's better than Jones, Rojo & Baily.
Perfectly happy to have him back as a rotation option, alongside Axel.
There could be a lot of games next year.
Indeed. All the more reason not to add another average player to our defence.That's not a good question... A lot of players we have fail that criteria
He is not needed.If Smalling is willing to accept a rotational, rather than nailed on regular starter, role for United, I'd definitely bring him back and spend -- if we need to -- a massive sum next summer. Smalling is flawed, but he's better than Lindelof in his defending, but worse than Lindelof in his passing. It's not hard to see Smalling pushing Lindelof -- who's pretty decent but is nowhere close to being world class -- out of his way. That's how it should be.
Our more immediate need to address is forwards and midfielders. This isn't the thread for that discussion, but I'd just say that if we have Maguire, Lindelof, Smalling, Tuanzebe and Bailly we're pretty well covered at CB going into next season.
But Jones and Rojo, the Laurel and Hardy of PL CBs ("one fine mess..."), have to go.
I wouldn't count myself as a tactical football genius, being a fan, but i would say i think it is because by the time smalling plays the ball to matic, who then needs to Turn to play another pass, any team Playing a pressing Style will have won the ball. You need defenders who can play the ball out and have passing ability.As a pure defender, how many of you actually believe Smalling is inferior to anything we have at the club? Apart from his grabby hands and poorness on the ball, the guy is rarely beaten as an actual CB and he doesn't come with a lack of strength, pace, bravery, athleticism or any kind of weakness in the air.
I see he's lumped in with Jones very flippantly by some posters here which doesn't make sense.
This talk of us being cash-strapped whilst needing to pad out the squad (post-Sancho) and get in a supplementary CB for Maguire when we still have Smalling, who is not the worst partner for Maguire by any means, is quite weird. Why is there talk of spending north of £50m on a CB when we have Smalling?
With regard to his passing., traditionally the onus is on the anchoring midfielder to alleviate the issue and take over the play as soon as possible. In the world of the high press, this is not ideal, of course, but even then, if Maguire is this ball-playing CB some people think he is, he gets more chance to showcase it in a traditional stopper/ball-player pairing, which he and Smalling would be.
If Smalling wants out, fair enough. But if we have him and he wants to stay, who is against him being our starting CB next season, and if you are against it, can you state why?
Me too, except I wouldn't get your hopes up too high that we're going to upgrade Shaw and De Gea. That's a bridge too far and there aren't many realistic options anyway even if you're down on both of them.He is not needed.
Smalling for the domestic cups and to cover Harry/Victor, same for Tuanzabe (who actually might push Lindelof out of the team if he really progresses and stays injury free) is a decent set of defenders. The nice thing is that Maguire and Lindelof are rarely injured (and Smalling is fit most of the time too), so we do not need to have 7 central defenders in the book.
I think that signing Sancho, cover for Bruno/Pogba, upgrade on Matic, upgrade on Shaw (sorry Luke, but being injured half of them time is problematic), upgrade on De Gea (if he doesn't go back to his best next season), upgrade on AWB should take precedence over signing another CB. At least for the next season, I would be happy to go with what we have.
His VAR problem has been handballs - 1 call was total BS but he had a few brainfreezes too.Always felt Smalling was a bit grabby and that was a concern given VAR - I think he's been pretty solid by all accounts in Rome
I can't believe in 2020 I have to ask would Smalling get in City's team? Liverpool? Chelsea?
I haven't really seen him play in Italy and can just go by word of mouth that he's apparently doing well. But if he gave away 4-5 penalties and was at fault for a couple more goals, he would be slated. Maguire made two mistakes this year that his keeper forgot to bail him out for and he got destroyed online. And btw....I've never rated DeGea. Not even when he was our player of the year. I was always amazed by some of the saves he made, but always thought he was lacking and I wasn't happy when the fax machine "broke down"...That's how i see it. Many don't rate Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, DDG yet we have the second or third best defense in the league and it can only improve with more time playing together. Not appreciating what you have and the grass is always greener on the other side type of thing. Imagine the abuse Smalling would get this season after giving away 4 or 5 penalties as he did in Rome with a few more goals due to poor positioning
There is no way that Pep would have put Smalling even in bench. If hard pressed, he would have played Aguero and David Silva as CB before he would have opted for Smalling.Both Chelsea and City would have had ~5 points more if they had him this season. Their CBs have been shocking for long stretches.
And they will recruit quality to rectify it.Both Chelsea and City would have had ~5 points more if they had him this season. Their CBs have been shocking for long stretches.
As much as I enjoy Bailly’s clear enthusiasm, he is far too erratic to ever be a top class centre back. He’s also injured a lot, and similarly to Jones, it is in part due to his style of play. Jones and Bailly would rather injure themselves than give away so much as a corner.My main problem with Smalling was the way he grabbed opponents, sometimes almost hugging them in our own penalty area, and I believe that was one of the reasons that Ole moved him on. He was always a good defender, and better on the ball than most give him credit for, but he was prone to the misplaced pass now and again. I would rate him higher than Rojo (too headstrong, prone to nasty tackles, always a red card in waiting) and Jones (very committed, and too prone to rushes of blood, and lack of defensive nous). Bailly is a good defender, also committed and very good when under pressure, and can pass the ball well, ideal fit with Maguire in my eyes. With Tuanzebe, Mengi and Bernard (possibly) in the frame, I think Smalling will be sold, I don't think he would want to come back as a bit part player.
You said he's not upto standard because he wouldn't improve those teams.And they will recruit quality to rectify it.
Meanwhile a disturbing amount of people on redcafe think a player who did nothing over nearly a decade is going to come back and improve our team...
Valencia Smalling Jones YoungThat's how i see it. Many don't rate Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, DDG yet we have the second or third best defense in the league and it can only improve with more time playing together. Not appreciating what you have and the grass is always greener on the other side type of thing. Imagine the abuse Smalling would get this season after giving away 4 or 5 penalties as he did in Rome with a few more goals due to poor positioning
He wouldn't improve them. He's an average player that's already had his 'best'. Hence why he want to remain in Serie A.You said he's not upto standard because he wouldn't improve those teams.
His problem was his passing.As a pure defender, how many of you actually believe Smalling is inferior to anything we have at the club? Apart from his grabby hands and poorness on the ball, the guy is rarely beaten as an actual CB and he doesn't come with a lack of strength, pace, bravery, athleticism or any kind of weakness in the air.
I see he's lumped in with Jones very flippantly by some posters here which doesn't make sense.
This talk of us being cash-strapped whilst needing to pad out the squad (post-Sancho) and get in a supplementary CB for Maguire when we still have Smalling, who is not the worst partner for Maguire by any means, is quite weird. Why is there talk of spending north of £50m on a CB when we have Smalling?
With regard to his passing., traditionally the onus is on the anchoring midfielder to alleviate the issue and take over the play as soon as possible. In the world of the high press, this is not ideal, of course, but even then, if Maguire is this ball-playing CB some people think he is, he gets more chance to showcase it in a traditional stopper/ball-player pairing, which he and Smalling would be.
If Smalling wants out, fair enough. But if we have him and he wants to stay, who is against him being our starting CB next season, and if you are against it, can you state why?
He clearly would, it's just absurd to not recognise what he brings to a defence, especially one as lacking as Chelsea's.He wouldn't improve them. He's an average player that's already had his 'best'. Hence why he want to remain in Serie A.
Yes we ended second that year with a strong defensive record and also reached the cup final. People claim it was shit since they didn't like the players we had. Same as claiming we had shit defenders under LVG.Valencia Smalling Jones Young
That was the defense that started the Fa cup final with chelsea In 2018. Read it without shivering. We’ve come a long way for the people who claim the defense we have now is shit
I would use examples of the likes of Sheffield united and burnley in past seasons who have a great defensive record but they dont have amazing individuals. They set the team up defensively and scrap for every 50/50 and are hard to beat. Thats good for them and will ensure relative success to those clubs, but thats really what we did under jose. If we tried to play better football Going forward we would have bled goals with that back 4, they were not good we just played a defensive team game.Yes we ended second that year with a strong defensive record and also reached the cup final. People claim it was shit since they didn't like the players we had. Same as claiming we had shit defenders under LVG.
It is not shit now either though. It is a solid defense. Better than the one City had both of these times I would say. Just that they got stronger attack and midfield and mainly a better manager.
Young was one of our best players this year, to be fair.Valencia Smalling Jones Young
That was the defense that started the Fa cup final with chelsea In 2018. Read it without shivering. We’ve come a long way for the people who claim the defense we have now is shit
In the bigger games we did, but we tried to be more attacking against the smaller teams. At least early on and we had great defensive record then even scoring loads of goals.I would use examples of the likes of Sheffield united and burnley in past seasons who have a great defensive record but they dont have amazing individuals. They set the team up defensively and scrap for every 50/50 and are hard to beat. Thats good for them and will ensure relative success to those clubs, but thats really what we did under jose. If we tried to play better football Going forward we would have bled goals with that back 4, they were not good we just played a defensive team game.
Man city also conceded a goal less than us That season in 2018, whilst accumulating 100 points and 106 goals, so the boring gain of a good defensive record doesn't really count as any sort of achievement.
Says it all.Young was one of our best players this year, to be fair.
Yeah everything considered, the current defense has much more potential and looks better than anything we have put post Fergie, even with minor complaints here and there, I will definitely won't want Smalling or Jones in the main team again.Says it all.
So glad Ole has improved things and the future is looking brighter