Apathetic Fanbase

ti vu

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Everyone loves to blame Ed for everything. Ed's been ok recently. He vetoed a number of really dumb thing's Jose wanted to do last Summer and has managed to bring in a manager who understands the club and will take us forward. What he needs to do now is give Ole the freedom and financial backing he needs.
If it's all his doing, why he renewed Mourinho contract, or picked Mourinho in the first place when Ole was obtainable all along? It doesn't require Mourinho tenure for one to realize one need to pick manager base on compatibility with club preferred approach. LVG 2 seasons should have been telling. There is every chance OGS to first get interim manager position have to do with a log of lobbying effort from SAF and Gill.

See for yourself a paradox in this Woodward did no wrong line of thinking. The rest is just wishful thinking and Martial wage raise just add salt to the wound. OGS few months into the job, and who would believe he's the one who have a say to give that kind of wage to Martial, when he's just newly appointed.
 

gaucho_10

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Too many United fans are worried about looking like top fans to ever boo. They'd rather applaud crap players and managers
Never understood that attitude even if it is how most football fans feel.

In my eyes footballers are here to entertain us in our free time. Nothing more, nothing less.

Our interest in the sport is what get's them paid in a week more then most of us make in a few years, so I really see no point in being overly sentimental when it comes to them.

If a player has the right attitude then all is forgiven but he'll have to be sold if he's not good enough.
If a player is a lazy bastard, I'd just throw tomatoes at him until he's gone. Don't care what he did for the club last week, last month or last season.
 

wolvored

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Woody can be blamed for a lot of things. Giving Moyes a 6 year contract. Giving Mourinho an extra season. Regretting it when he started slagging the club off in the summer, but waiting 4 months after the season started to sack him. You cant blame him for picking Moyes as he was new in the role and apparently he was a popular pick by the outgoing manager Fergie. Perhaps he thought Fergie would be able to guide him. He then bought in VG who had just finished semi finalists at the WC and he had pedigree winning trophies and bringing through young talent. He then bought in Mourinho a serial trophy winner, a guarantee to win a title before he has his meltdown. He couldnt have possibly seen how it was going to pan out with any of these managers, otherwise he wouldnt have signed them. Hes now bowed to popular demand and signed Ole and as soon as he has done it, its all fell apart. If he backs him with a large transfer chest, brings in this DOF or whatever title, I cant see what else he can do. At the end of the day he can only do up to what the Glazers let him.
 

ti vu

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Woody can be blamed for a lot of things. Giving Moyes a 6 year contract. Giving Mourinho an extra season. Regretting it when he started slagging the club off in the summer, but waiting 4 months after the season started to sack him. You cant blame him for picking Moyes as he was new in the role and apparently he was a popular pick by the outgoing manager Fergie. Perhaps he thought Fergie would be able to guide him. He then bought in VG who had just finished semi finalists at the WC and he had pedigree winning trophies and bringing through young talent. He then bought in Mourinho a serial trophy winner, a guarantee to win a title before he has his meltdown. He couldnt have possibly seen how it was going to pan out with any of these managers, otherwise he wouldnt have signed them. Hes now bowed to popular demand and signed Ole and as soon as he has done it, its all fell apart. If he backs him with a large transfer chest, brings in this DOF or whatever title, I cant see what else he can do. At the end of the day he can only do up to what the Glazers let him.
All of this can be summarized in one word: spineless.

The problem is being absolutely spotless in decision. The problem is having no vision, and learning nothing. Just try to read what you wrote again, it's just reactive approach, and even in the worst form. It's damage control instead of react on first sign of issue like the model of Madrid, Barcelona. All the manager sackings so far is just late than it should have been. Contract renewal at wrong time, the wage being put out just doesn't compute when it comes to football performance.

While the owners ain't blameless (work both way with their no interfering approach) , it can still work with someone else in Woodward position that actually able to understand the important of football performance.
 

SteveW

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If it's all his doing, why he renewed Mourinho contract, or picked Mourinho in the first place when Ole was obtainable all along? It doesn't require Mourinho tenure for one to realize one need to pick manager base on compatibility with club preferred approach. LVG 2 seasons should have been telling. There is every chance OGS to first get interim manager position have to do with a log of lobbying effort from SAF and Gill.

See for yourself a paradox in this Woodward did no wrong line of thinking. The rest is just wishful thinking and Martial wage raise just add salt to the wound. OGS few months into the job, and who would believe he's the one who have a say to give that kind of wage to Martial, when he's just newly appointed.
Who said he did no wrong? :confused: I didn't anyway. I said he's been ok recently as in the last year. He stopped Jose from doing more damage and I think he's made a good appointment as opposed to looking for another big name manager. He seems to be learning from previous mistakes.

Both LVG and Mourinho were hugely popular appointments at the respective times. Pep was never available and Klopp chose Liverpool.

I've no issue with the Martial contract either. I'm delighted we've tied him down.
 

ti vu

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Who said he did no wrong? :confused: I didn't anyway. I said he's been ok recently as in the last year. He stopped Jose from doing more damage and I think he's made a good appointment as opposed to looking for another big name manager. He seems to be learning from previous mistakes.

Both LVG and Mourinho were hugely popular appointments at the respective times. Pep was never available and Klopp chose Liverpool.

I've no issue with the Martial contract either. I'm delighted we've tied him down.
So suddenly months away from renewing Mourinho contract to not backing him then had our season down the drain is Okay?

Ole appointment as interim suddenly all of Woodward doing? Why couldn't he stop offer Mourinho the extension, and sack him before the season start, installing Ole there and then?

Again, why it needs to be Mourinho at his lowest especially after that season at Chelsea? If it's lesson learnt, Ole would be considered there and then. Mourinho is never popular to United fan in a good way, not after that season.

Klopp didn't just choose Liverpool. Adult Disney Land quote is there to see.

Martial wage increase like 4 fold is Okay, compare to the progress he made since his arrival? And Alexis wage doesn't look like Woodward had learnt anything.

Yeah. Agree to disagree. There is huge paradox glossing everything off as Woodward had learnt.
 

lex talionis

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Terrible thread. I know of no United supporters who are pleased with the current situation. The traveling fans are the very best in the country. Supporters at home cheer excellent performances and groan poor performances. Online posters here, the best United forum I am aware of, give it everything they've got. What are club supporters supposed to do that they're not doing?

If the criticism is about club management, that's another matter. Ferguson made a very poor decision in appointing Moyes, but the Glazers could hardly be blamed for second-guessing Sir Alex Ferguson. We went with Van Gaal and then Mourinho and neither worked out as hoped, perhaps predictably so. Maybe, just maybe, we made a mistake in going with Ole (I'm not there yet, but I do have my doubts) but the decision to go with Ole was understandable given how high we were flying under him.

We've been over this ground many times before and there's no point in going over it again. Ole is the manager and all that can be done now is to make sure he has a plan (which will not be a public document, of course) and that he is given the resources to execute the plan. No other options are before us.
 

TrueRed79

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Terrible thread. I know of no United supporters who are pleased with the current situation. The traveling fans are the very best in the country. Supporters at home cheer excellent performances and groan poor performances. Online posters here, the best United forum I am aware of, give it everything they've got. What are club supporters supposed to do that they're not doing?

If the criticism is about club management, that's another matter. Ferguson made a very poor decision in appointing Moyes, but the Glazers could hardly be blamed for second-guessing Sir Alex Ferguson. We went with Van Gaal and then Mourinho and neither worked out as hoped, perhaps predictably so. Maybe, just maybe, we made a mistake in going with Ole (I'm not there yet, but I do have my doubts) but the decision to go with Ole was understandable given how high we were flying under him.

We've been over this ground many times before and there's no point in going over it again. Ole is the manager and all that can be done now is to make sure he has a plan (which will not be a public document, of course) and that he is given the resources to execute the plan. No other options are before us.
Thanks for your terrible reply. I never said Utd fans were pleased with our current situation, i said we have become apathetic to it. We constantly point the finger at the wrong person. We protested against Moyes, got bored of LVG, and sacked Mourinho after winning 3 trophies and giving him a new contract. The only constant in all this is Woodward and the Glazers, yet they dont get any flak by the match going crowd. I know people around here see that Ed is doing a bad job and that the Glazers are only here to milk the cow but why don't they get the same treatment as our previous managers? I certainly remember Liverpool fans giving Hicks and Gillette stick when they owned them. Now they have owners who are invested in restoring the club from the ground up and look how far ahead they are than us, it's not a coincidence. They used the Ronaldo sale to service our debt and Woodward helped make that deal happen. That's one of the reasons he's still here and that's when the rot set in. I can only see it getting worse and we haven't hit rock bottom yet.
 

Ban

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Is there some kind of supporters club or something which can express the feelings and worries of most fans right now. I mean saying or yelling something or bringing banners in the stadium wont do a thing.
 

Random Task

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Is there some kind of supporters club or something which can express the feelings and worries of most fans right now. I mean saying or yelling something or bringing banners in the stadium wont do a thing.
MUST (Man United Supporters' trust)

They love the Glazer's :)
 

Vadim

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Congratulations on being a good fan. I look forward to seeing what your efforts achieve.
What are you doing about our evil owners and Woodward then? Are you standing outside Old Trafford right now with a placard saying “GLAZERS OUT”?
 

lex talionis

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Thanks for your terrible reply. I never said Utd fans were pleased with our current situation, i said we have become apathetic to it. We constantly point the finger at the wrong person. We protested against Moyes, got bored of LVG, and sacked Mourinho after winning 3 trophies and giving him a new contract. The only constant in all this is Woodward and the Glazers, yet they dont get any flak by the match going crowd. I know people around here see that Ed is doing a bad job and that the Glazers are only here to milk the cow but why don't they get the same treatment as our previous managers? I certainly remember Liverpool fans giving Hicks and Gillette stick when they owned them. Now they have owners who are invested in restoring the club from the ground up and look how far ahead they are than us, it's not a coincidence. They used the Ronaldo sale to service our debt and Woodward helped make that deal happen. That's one of the reasons he's still here and that's when the rot set in. I can only see it getting worse and we haven't hit rock bottom yet.
Not this again.
 

Icemav

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Chaps the rot starts at the top. Obviously you need a bit of luck but with our resources there is no excuse.

City, Liverpool and Tottenham (clubs with different resources) all appointed top class managers in their prime.

We have appointed a nobody in Moyes, a dinosaur in LVG after an ok international tournament, a toxic square peg in Mourinho because he was the biggest name available, and now the former Molde and Cardiff city manager.

There is zero real planning here. Has anyone senior at the club got a clue what they are strategizing on the football side? Did anyone look at Klopp and think "he is THE man, but not available so lets take a post Fergie caretaker with big experience and grab Klopp in two years"? Did anybody do the same with Poch, and give Ole a one/two year contract and start whispering in Poch's ear? Is there a director of football guiding the type of player purchases and taking players for future managers?

I repeat, there is nothing. Ole needs to produce a miracle. Miracle's are amazing to behold though. I hope he sees out the season in style ans can do what he pleases in the summer.
 

TrueRed79

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A novice manager.
A squad of mercenaries.
Amateur tactics.
A board full of marketing men.
A non-existent transfer policy.
A crumbling stadium.
A neglected academy.
An ageing match-going support.
Parasitic owners.
It's taken 14 years but the Glazers have done it.
When are fans going to stand up and say "Enough is Enough"? Because it's happening right before our very eyes. The empire that Fergie built is disappearing, yet we are signing songs (which is fine to a point) and not letting the powers that be know that this is totally unacceptable. My mates said there were a few groans last night when some fans sang "f**k Glazers, love Utd" but nobody else joined in.
 

Inigo Montoya

Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!
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A novice manager.
A squad of mercenaries.
Amateur tactics.
A board full of marketing men.
A non-existent transfer policy.
A crumbling stadium.
A neglected academy.

An ageing match-going support.
Parasitic owners.
It's taken 14 years but the Glazers have done it.
When are fans going to stand up and say "Enough is Enough"? Because it's happening right before our very eyes. The empire that Fergie built is disappearing, yet we are signing songs (which is fine to a point) and not letting the powers that be know that this is totally unacceptable. My mates said there were a few groans last night when some fans sang "f**k Glazers, love Utd" but nobody else joined in.
It wasn't an empire. It showed signs of strain in the last season.

Where do you get the idea that;1) the stadium's crumbling,2) the academy's neglected?
 

Fosu-Mens

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A novice manager.
A squad of mercenaries.
Amateur tactics.
A board full of marketing men.
A non-existent transfer policy.
A crumbling stadium.
A neglected academy.
An ageing match-going support.
Parasitic owners.
It's taken 14 years but the Glazers have done it.
When are fans going to stand up and say "Enough is Enough"? Because it's happening right before our very eyes. The empire that Fergie built is disappearing, yet we are signing songs (which is fine to a point) and not letting the powers that be know that this is totally unacceptable. My mates said there were a few groans last night when some fans sang "f**k Glazers, love Utd" but nobody else joined in.
As long as the old heroes in the media does not say it as it is: The owners does not care about football, they are only owning the club for the $$$, then the average fans will still believe that the club is aiming for the top. And they will continue to hope/believe that things will turn around. Neville, Keane, Ferdinand etc all know that the people making the decisions at the club does not care a sh*t about the fans or winning anything... I guess some of them are happy with the "club ambassador" wage and some of them does not want to make certain people angry.
 

TrueRed79

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It wasn't an empire. It showed signs of strain in the last season.

Where do you get the idea that;1) the stadium's crumbling,2) the academy's neglected?
Did you not see the pictures on tv of the leaks at the stadium? Everyone knows the stadium needs upgrading! Our academy was only restructured in the last 3/5 years. It was neglected. There was plenty of press around it. Yeah we've brought through some players but maybe Rashford is the only one of the required quality for our first team.
 

Inigo Montoya

Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!
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Did you not see the pictures on tv of the leaks at the stadium? Everyone knows the stadium needs upgrading! Our academy was only restructured in the last 3/5 years. It was neglected. There was plenty of press around it. Yeah we've brought through some players but maybe Rashford is the only one of the required quality for our first team.
So it needs refurbishment= crumbling

Out academy was restructured in the last 3-5 years= It is neglected

Way to go
 

Fluctuation0161

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A novice manager.
A squad of mercenaries.
Amateur tactics.
A board full of marketing men.
A non-existent transfer policy.
A crumbling stadium.
A neglected academy.
An ageing match-going support.
Parasitic owners.
It's taken 14 years but the Glazers have done it.
When are fans going to stand up and say "Enough is Enough"? Because it's happening right before our very eyes. The empire that Fergie built is disappearing, yet we are signing songs (which is fine to a point) and not letting the powers that be know that this is totally unacceptable. My mates said there were a few groans last night when some fans sang "f**k Glazers, love Utd" but nobody else joined in.
Depressingly true.
 

TrueRed79

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Our fans right now:lol:

I'd love so called fans like you to feck off to another team. Please do!
I support the team and always will. If i see things i don't like, i will say it. So based on that i should feck off and support another team? You're a really smart guy.... Utter bellend.
 

Inigo Montoya

Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!
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I support the team and always will. If i see things i don't like, i will say it. So based on that i should feck off and support another team? You're a really smart guy.... Utter bellend.
Yes and that's the problem we have right now. Apart from the poor grammar.

We have fans like you. You will feck off as we get worse, it's guaranteed. Then we'll be left with the loyal fanbase...you know the 'ageing' ones you despise.
 

Sandikan

aka sex on the beach
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A novice manager.
A squad of mercenaries.
Amateur tactics.
A board full of marketing men.
A non-existent transfer policy.
A crumbling stadium.
A neglected academy.
An ageing match-going support.
Parasitic owners.
It's taken 14 years but the Glazers have done it.
When are fans going to stand up and say "Enough is Enough"? Because it's happening right before our very eyes. The empire that Fergie built is disappearing, yet we are signing songs (which is fine to a point) and not letting the powers that be know that this is totally unacceptable. My mates said there were a few groans last night when some fans sang "f**k Glazers, love Utd" but nobody else joined in.
One of the all time most hyperbolic posts.
Amazing.
 

TrueRed79

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Insulting another member
Yes and that's the problem we have right now. Apart from the poor grammar.

We have fans like you. You will feck off as we get worse, it's guaranteed. Then we'll be left with the loyal fanbase...you know the 'ageing' ones you despise.
Haha! I have supported Utd since the 80's. Amazing how you can come to that conclusion from a few sentences written on a public forum.
 
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SiamDevil

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Maybe it’s because most fans of most big clubs are “casuals”, as in those who only care about what happens on the pitch and ignorant about other things going on in the club. For them it’s either the managers or the players while the owners have little impacts. Many fans I’ve talked to don’t even know that Woodward’s the one who handles transfer and contract negotiations.
 

Sandikan

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People have too much time on their hands...
I'm not sure what people expected yesterday.

Best manager of the by far best team, who have spent the most and who are in excellent form.

And we thought we had a chance?!
 

Chesterlestreet

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Ferguson made a very poor decision in appointing Moyes, but the Glazers could hardly be blamed for second-guessing Sir Alex Ferguson. We went with Van Gaal and then Mourinho and neither worked out as hoped, perhaps predictably so.
Yes, none of those decisions were outrageous regarded in isolation. The problem is that they were made by someone who apparently had (still has, many suspect) no long-term plan for life in the post SAF era.

A certain lesson must be learned. If we continue hiring managers in the same fashion, we're going to continue struggling, most likely.

The moment the Moyes experiment (a boot room style gamble, essentially, even though Moyes himself wasn't an insider), a new course should've been laid. Settle on a long-term strategy, hire a DoF, recruit managers and players accordingly. In other words, not go for the first and best name who happens to be available, but for someone who fits a specific profile.

ETA

Of course, in an ideal world Gill starts introducing certain changes well before Fergie retires. That's forward planning. Easier said than done, though. Fergie was one of a kind. Changing things with him still in charge would've been a challenge, and possibly even quite impractical. There was always a trade off: keep the greatest manager ever (and who wouldn't have? He never lost it, he faded somewhat compared to his absolute best but there was never any Wengerish decline, nowhere near it) - but let the structure become more and more, well, Fergian down to the brand of tea served in the cafeteria, which necessarily meant that once he was gone, it would take a lot of time and effort to restructure (and in some ways we have simply neglected to do this - still, six years down the line).
 
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Johan07

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There is not much we can do, its the owners.

If we had a fan ownership model like Ajax, Barca, we would use all our profits not just generate wealth for the vampire Glazers.
Are you referring to the Barcelona that has a 100 percent wagebill towards the clubs turnover and will probably go bankrupt in a year or two? As long as we have a 50 percent wagebill/turnover the club is run correctly. We need to get better value for the money we spend and we will be completlely fine. Its not more difficult than that.
 

Chesterlestreet

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We need to get better value for the money we spend and we will be completlely fine.
To an extent I agree with this.

But I don't think we're going to get better value without some fundamental changes in the structure on the football side. Letting individual managers target players according to his needs won't do in the long run unless we somehow luck out with landing Fergie Mk2, or something close.

The money's there, though, you're right about that. We've spent enough to be right up there since Fergie retired but it's been wasted on the wrong recruits and the wrong kind of contracts.