Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake

Revaulx

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Glory hunters talk about how embarrassed they feel supporting United and how fans from rival clubs make them feel less about themselves. SMH!
Well I’m embarrassed at the shocking way the club I support has been run in recent years. There’s no way I’m embarrassed about being a United supporter though; as far as I’m concerned the former isn’t the same thing at all.
 

Amerifan

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Agree with all of this but the 2 things he is failing with so far is:

a) substitutions - always too late, often the wrong subs

b) The midfield & #10. - it appears he has genuinely gone into this season expecting to get away with Lingard, Mata or Andreas as his number 10’s. And McTom & Pogba sitting deep.

b is truly baffling as we know these 3 aren’t good enough, we have so much evidence of this season after season, and yet 2 options are glaringly obvious to try. Either Pogba or Gomes at 10.

So whilst he gets an A* in the transfer market, and a B-C for tactics/playing style, he currently gets a E for team selection and in game tactics.
He didn’t start the season with a bedded in squad returning from a strong end to last season. I’m confused how trying new players in different positions is in any way a failure in team selection and in game tactics. What alternative is there.
 
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John Blund

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Keeping Pogba should also not be underestimated. Mourinho was pushing out Pogba, Martial, Lindelöf, Rashford. I don't know who Mourinho would have signed, but I guess he'd be over 28, and probably end up like the best paid player in the league.
 

OleTheGreat

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I want to make this point very clear to everyone out here, do not go against Ole, i think he's doing the best for United. He is certainly taking us in the right direction. It will definitely take us 2-3 summer windows to fix all the issues and get proper replacements and extra players to fill in the spots in case of injuries. Forget winning the league this season, maybe top4 if we do something worthwhile in the winter window and even so i wouldn't make a big fuss if we do not make top4. Europa league should be our goal and get that pass for the Champions League and then player will want to come in.

We cannot put together a good squad only then.
 

SambaBoy

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Ole's reign in terms of trophies I feel won't be a success but it could have a massive effect going forward if it pays off and set the club up nicely.

Obviously no guarantee's that success will come back to us but OGS has got rid of alot of the deadwood at the expense of having squad depth/giving the kids a chance. Our future looks bright with the likes of Maguire, AWB, Henderson, McTominay, Gomes, Garner, Chong, James, Greenwood, Martial and Rashford. If 3-4 of them can develop into top class players then we have a good chance, and you can see that happening easily enough for Maguire, AWB, and Martial. Rashford will be in and around the team, we will see how he develops in the next few years. Greenwood is all the hype at the minute, but expectations need to be tempered. He's still very young and showed nothing yet in a professional sense. James has made a great start but there are still question marks over him. At worst, I think he will be squad cover and at best, will be one of the leading PL wingers. Henderson, Gomes, Garner and Chong, no one can really say with any certainty, all have talent and hopefully 1-2 can make it into the first team and become good players.

No managers would ditch a 15 + goals striker in the position United are in without signing a replacement. That's what OGS has done with Lukaku. He's now challenged Martial, Rashford and Greenwood to take up the mantle of being United's main striker. The majority of managers would think of the short term here and keep Lukaku in the team even if it may be detrimental in the long term.

Seems to have adopted a buy young hungry players policy and moved away from the temptation of throwing money at marquee players. A lot of managers have fallen into this trap and it has failed miserably at United.

He's kept Pogba at the club for now and De Gea. Unsure about De Gea, but Pogba definitely has a good relationship with OGS and would have been gone if Mourinho was still in charge.
 

romufc

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Calling for Ole's head makes no sense at all. It makes sense for non-footballing fans who think the buck lies solely on the manager.

Out of all the managers, Ole is the only one who has decided to get rid of deadwood and refrained from panic buying players who in a couple years might become deadwood. He has instead signed players who can be good in the future and help us now in Maguire, AWB and James.

Instead of signing 2 more £60-80m signings, he has said to the youth, show me what you can do whilst bringing basic principles back at the club.

He might not be a very tactical manager etc, but it can't be ignored he has Mike Phelan and Carrick working with him who have worked with SAF and Jose.

The club needed a huge reality check and reset, no other manager would have been able to do what Ole is doing. He is getting on with the job without complaining, this will only benefit the club in the long run.
 

Enigma_87

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Calling for Ole's head makes no sense at all. It makes sense for non-footballing fans who think the buck lies solely on the manager.

Out of all the managers, Ole is the only one who has decided to get rid of deadwood and refrained from panic buying players who in a couple years might become deadwood. He has instead signed players who can be good in the future and help us now in Maguire, AWB and James.

Instead of signing 2 more £60-80m signings, he has said to the youth, show me what you can do whilst bringing basic principles back at the club.

He might not be a very tactical manager etc, but it can't be ignored he has Mike Phelan and Carrick working with him who have worked with SAF and Jose.

The club needed a huge reality check and reset, no other manager would have been able to do what Ole is doing. He is getting on with the job without complaining, this will only benefit the club in the long run.
This train of thinking is a double edged sword.

If you say that it's Ole responsible for transfers (getting rid of deadwood, not going into panic buys), then he has to be taken fully accountable for the state our current squad is - short to the bone and little to no bench.

In terms of getting rid of the deadwood, LvG got rid of more deadwood in his first season yet no one really is trumpeting on that achievement.

He got rid of Buttner, Bebe, Welbeck, Anderson, Kagawa, Macheda, etc..

Not replacing the senior players he got rid of is not something I'd call big achievement, especially if he doesn't produce in terms of results - quite the contrary.

Also calling Maguire, AWB and James a big success is very premature on the back of 4 games. Matic looked great the first three months and look how it went. Martial looked like potential Ballon D'or winner and look at him now.
 

romufc

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This train of thinking is a double edged sword.

If you say that it's Ole responsible for transfers (getting rid of deadwood, not going into panic buys), then he has to be taken fully accountable for the state our current squad is - short to the bone and little to no bench.

In terms of getting rid of the deadwood, LvG got rid of more deadwood in his first season yet no one really is trumpeting on that achievement.

He got rid of Buttner, Bebe, Welbeck, Anderson, Kagawa, Macheda, etc..

Not replacing the senior players he got rid of is not something I'd call big achievement, especially if he doesn't produce in terms of results - quite the contrary.

Also calling Maguire, AWB and James a big success is very premature on the back of 4 games. Matic looked great the first three months and look how it went. Martial looked like potential Ballon D'or winner and look at him now.
Ofcourse Ole had a part in getting rid of deadwood. Lukaku, Sanchez and Smalling mostly.

Again, you have not read correctly, it is all well and good getting rid of deadwood but LVG bought deadwood to replace deadwood in Rojo, Schweinsteiger, Radamel Falcao, Matteo Darmian.

Again, please read my post properly as I said He has instead signed players who can be good in the future and help us now in Maguire, AWB and James.

We cannot replace deadwood in one window. You first have to have a clear out then assess the situation. It would make no sense to bring 3 senior players in if they are not going to help the team.

Also, apart from Herrera (who left United), none of the players Ole got rid of were actually in his thoughts for the first team. Why have players on the bench who are rotten? I would rather have Greenwood over Lukaku on the bench because I know when he comes on he will try.
 

Enigma_87

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Ofcourse Ole had a part in getting rid of deadwood. Lukaku, Sanchez and Smalling mostly.

Again, you have not read correctly, it is all well and good getting rid of deadwood but LVG bought deadwood to replace deadwood in Rojo, Schweinsteiger, Radamel Falcao, Matteo Darmian.

Again, please read my post properly as I said He has instead signed players who can be good in the future and help us now in Maguire, AWB and James.

We cannot replace deadwood in one window. You first have to have a clear out then assess the situation. It would make no sense to bring 3 senior players in if they are not going to help the team.

Also, apart from Herrera (who left United), none of the players Ole got rid of were actually in his thoughts for the first team. Why have players on the bench who are rotten? I would rather have Greenwood over Lukaku on the bench because I know when he comes on he will try.
Sanchez and Smalling will be back next year and we're covering part of Sanchez wages hardly a phenomenal piece of business.

The "deadwood" you mentioned getting in has the benefit of your hindsight. At the time many were very happy with players like Schweinsteiger and Falcao and Rojo, Darmian were seen as a good players in a good age. Do you not believe that those players brought in at the time we didn't believe that they could be good in the future?

We didn't replace Herrera, we didn't replace Lukaku, we didn't get a RW, neither additional CM (to cover for Fellaini leaving in Jan). On top of that even last year we needed a replacement striker and we didn't get one this year either.

I find it very disingenuous to praise Ole for getting rid of the deadwood leaving the squad short yet slate LvG for bringing in players that he also "thought being good for us"...
 

romufc

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Sanchez and Smalling will be back next year and we're covering part of Sanchez wages hardly a phenomenal piece of business.

The "deadwood" you mentioned getting in has the benefit of your hindsight. At the time many were very happy with players like Schweinsteiger and Falcao and Rojo, Darmian were seen as a good players in a good age. Do you not believe that those players brought in at the time we didn't believe that they could be good in the future?

We didn't replace Herrera, we didn't replace Lukaku, we didn't get a RW, neither additional CM (to cover for Fellaini leaving in Jan). On top of that even last year we needed a replacement striker and we didn't get one this year either.

I find it very disingenuous to praise Ole for getting rid of the deadwood leaving the squad short yet slate LvG for bringing in players that he also "thought being good for us"...
They will be back but I don't think in the first team.

I agree I have the benefit of hindsight but using the benefit of hindsight has helped me realise that those are the things we needed to avoid. Falcao and Bastian were good but not ones for future.

I also agree that not replacing Herrera and Fellaini is a mistake but not replacing Lukaku directly I do not see a mistake because a winger / cam is what we need.

I would prefer to have a team back to the bare bones then build it rather than what we have been doing for 6 years of mix and match.
 

Enigma_87

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They will be back but I don't think in the first team.

I agree I have the benefit of hindsight but using the benefit of hindsight has helped me realise that those are the things we needed to avoid. Falcao and Bastian were good but not ones for future.

I also agree that not replacing Herrera and Fellaini is a mistake but not replacing Lukaku directly I do not see a mistake because a winger / cam is what we need.

I would prefer to have a team back to the bare bones then build it rather than what we have been doing for 6 years of mix and match.
If we're going by the Klopp/Pep model they moved on quite a lot of players during their rebuilt. They did not leave a barebone squad and especially under Klopp we saw players during the years which can be labeled deadwood or shit, whatever you prefer. The difference is the coaching and that good managers can raise the level of the players they manage and actually being useful to the team.

I'd like to stick to that profile, but again the main difference is to bring players that fit a certain profile, rather than as you said mish mash of styles.

Klopp brought in 31 years old center back who was nothing special in Klavan in the first window - 2 years later - sold. Brought in Ox for 35m (considerable amount at the time) and so far he isn't a success. Matip is still playing and I wouldn't call him better than one Lindelof for example. Top managers aren't afraid of getting a player wrong, they just move on, replace him, but still with one that fits in the same profile.
 

romufc

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If we're going by the Klopp/Pep model they moved on quite a lot of players during their rebuilt. They did not leave a barebone squad and especially under Klopp we saw players during the years which can be labeled deadwood or shit, whatever you prefer. The difference is the coaching and that good managers can raise the level of the players they manage and actually being useful to the team.

I'd like to stick to that profile, but again the main difference is to bring players that fit a certain profile, rather than as you said mish mash of styles.

Klopp brought in 31 years old center back who was nothing special in Klavan in the first window - 2 years later - sold. Brought in Ox for 35m (considerable amount at the time) and so far he isn't a success. Matip is still playing and I wouldn't call him better than one Lindelof for example. Top managers aren't afraid of getting a player wrong, they just move on, replace him, but still with one that fits in the same profile.

I am so glad you brought Klopp into this. Klopp finished 8th in his first season then 4th before he had a squad to challenge.

Yet here you are 6 months in Ole's reign wanting him to get the sack. You cannot have it both ways? I hope you can appreciate that.

The irony is if Ole bought a 31 year old striker the caf would be going mental.
 

Enigma_87

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I am so glad you brought Klopp into this. Klopp finished 8th in his first season then 4th before he had a squad to challenge.

Yet here you are 6 months in Ole's reign wanting him to get the sack. You cannot have it both ways? I hope you can appreciate that.

The irony is if Ole bought a 31 year old striker the caf would be going mental.
You can when Klopp has a history of building a team that plays a very specific style, was successful in the past, won BL twice, reached CL final and straight away since he got at Pool the new style was evident.

On the contrary you have someone with little to no credentials, after settling in and getting the permanent job went through 3 wins in 16 and doesn't have an recognizable plan or style.

Klopp and Ole couldn't be more different in terms of appointments and credentials.

I'd compare Ole to Di Matteo - past legends - had a purple patch and then went downhill.
 

romufc

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You can when Klopp has a history of building a team that plays a very specific style, was successful in the past, won BL twice, reached CL final and straight away since he got at Pool the new style was evident.

On the contrary you have someone with little to no credentials, after settling in and getting the permanent job went through 3 wins in 16 and doesn't have an recognizable plan or style.

Klopp and Ole couldn't be more different in terms of appointments and credentials.

I'd compare Ole to Di Matteo - past legends - had a purple patch and then went downhill.
So you are wrong in comparing them?

You want Ole to emulate Klopp but won't give him time, yep makes total sense.

So comparing Di Matteo who had senior characters like Terry, Drogba, Lampard to united who have 0 leaders?

You are basically just naming managers now in hope.
 

Enigma_87

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So you are wrong in comparing them?

You want Ole to emulate Klopp but won't give him time, yep makes total sense.

So comparing Di Matteo who had senior characters like Terry, Drogba, Lampard to united who have 0 leaders?

You are basically just naming managers now in hope.
I’m comparing managers that have proven credentials and plan and know what they are doing to those who leave the squad in a very short state during a very long season.

One way is proper way to do a rebuild other - not so much.
 

romufc

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I’m comparing managers that have proven credentials and plan and know what they are doing to those who leave the squad in a very short state during a very long season.

One way is proper way to do a rebuild other - not so much.
We need to change the way we are run before employing a manager with credentials.
 

Foxtrot

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Some fans really need to take their Ole tinted glasses off, when you have to give credit to a manager for getting rid of players. Christ. Talk about clutching at straws. That’s not an achievement or whatsoever, it’s part of his job fundamentals and in fact, it’s nothing to be proud of. Like in any professional job, I wonder if a manager would be lauded for firing an employee.
 

Greck

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Some fans really need to take their Ole tinted glasses off, when you have to give credit to a manager for getting rid of players. Christ. Talk about clutching at straws. That’s not an achievement or whatsoever, it’s part of his job fundamentals and in fact, it’s nothing to be proud of. Like in any professional job, I wonder if a manager would be lauded for firing an employee.
Actually agree. Selling players isn't a standalone point. I can't forget how elated this place was when LVG had that clear out, then Jose had his own clear out. Selling players of predecessors isn't new. This is our 3rd clear out with as many managers. Ole can at least say he's bought decently although I'd prefer to see where James and AWB average out in talent by May before jumping on that bandwagon, because once again the previous managers also had many of their buys perform in their first few games. In the meantime Ole still needs to show he knows what he's doing on the pitch. The job takes more than having an eye for talent. Those are called scouts
 
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Foxbatt

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The more it goes on the more stronger my belief that we made a huge mistake in appointing him. He will be found out soon and the fans will get on his back. Ed would have to replace him with someone who has more knowledge and experience. I would say the same for Lampard too by the way. Chelsea has a better squad than us.
 

el3mel

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Keeping Pogba should also not be underestimated. Mourinho was pushing out Pogba, Martial, Lindelöf, Rashford. I don't know who Mourinho would have signed, but I guess he'd be over 28, and probably end up like the best paid player in the league.
What's that nonsense ? Him and his agent stated clearly during summer he wants to move on. He's only staying because no one offered us what we wanted for him. Has feck all to do with who is our manager. It's so obvious he doesn't want to be here anymore a long time ago.
 

Womp

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Keeping Pogba should also not be underestimated. Mourinho was pushing out Pogba, Martial, Lindelöf, Rashford. I don't know who Mourinho would have signed, but I guess he'd be over 28, and probably end up like the best paid player in the league.
Pogba staying had nothing to do with him. He wanted to get the feck out, we just priced Madrid out of a move and they had far more pressing concerns in the squad to address. Pogba still wants to leave, mind.
 

Denis79

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Pogba staying had nothing to do with him. He wanted to get the feck out, we just priced Madrid out of a move and they had far more pressing concerns in the squad to address. Pogba still wants to leave, mind.
Pretty sure Pogba will leave in the summer, can't see him signing a new contract.
 

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I think we were kidding ourselves if we were expecting a FM style overhaul this summer. It's going to be a gradual process and we've made some positive steps forward getting rid of the deadwood and players that don't fit the Manchester United philosophy. We've strengthened in key areas and no longer appear to be targeting superstars for the sake of it.

This squad is still mostly Jose's with the last remnants of LvG going. We were never going to turn the corner overnight. I think we can give Ole another transfer window or two, continue the rebuild introducing one or two players at a time and gradually assimilating them into the team. Throw in a midfielder with some leadership and cojones in the mould of Maguire, a left sided AWB and a striker with the potential of Dan James and suddenly we'd be looking a lot healthier.
 

Lee565

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I think we were kidding ourselves if we were expecting a FM style overhaul this summer. It's going to be a gradual process and we've made some positive steps forward getting rid of the deadwood and players that don't fit the Manchester United philosophy. We've strengthened in key areas and no longer appear to be targeting superstars for the sake of it.

This squad is still mostly Jose's with the last remnants of LvG going. We were never going to turn the corner overnight. I think we can give Ole another transfer window or two, continue the rebuild introducing one or two players at a time and gradually assimilating them into the team. Throw in a midfielder with some leadership and cojones in the mould of Maguire, a left sided AWB and a striker with the potential of Dan James and suddenly we'd be looking a lot healthier.
I dont see what's so special about us to have not done more of a rebuild when teams like Atletico and Juventus brought in more players and sold quite a few as well and those are teams with high standards that wouldnt be allowed a write off season like many fans are allowing with Solskjear this season, we may as well of done a big rebuild this season if many fans are happy to even finish 8th this season, we had nothing to lose.
 

Mainoldo

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I dont see what's so special about us to have not done more of a rebuild when teams like Atletico and Juventus brought in more players and sold quite a few as well and those are teams with high standards that wouldnt be allowed a write off season like many fans are allowing with Solskjear this season, we may as well of done a big rebuild this season if many fans are happy to even finish 8th this season, we had nothing to lose.
I think this is where a good board comes in. There boards are football men and don’t allow standards to slip. Our board are manager men until they click on to it’s not working. Like we’ve seen we all their recent appointments. All our managers seem to set the narrative of how long they believe it will take to be successful. Which is the boards job.
 

fergiesarmy1

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I dont see what's so special about us to have not done more of a rebuild when teams like Atletico and Juventus brought in more players and sold quite a few as well and those are teams with high standards that wouldnt be allowed a write off season like many fans are allowing with Solskjear this season, we may as well of done a big rebuild this season if many fans are happy to even finish 8th this season, we had nothing to lose.
What makes you think Woodward is capable of organising a major rebuild?

After the bissaka signing he said we are working on “more” exciting signings which turned out to be just Maguire. He’s a tool and can’t manage more than one signing at a time and always ends up paying what or more than the club originally wanted. Del Boy could do a better job than this clown.
 

Lee565

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What makes you think Woodward is capable of organising a major rebuild?

After the bissaka signing he said we are working on “more” exciting signings which turned out to be just Maguire. He’s a tool and can’t manage more than one signing at a time and always ends up paying what or more than the club originally wanted. Del Boy could do a better job than this clown.
I dont tbh, he's screws up mostly everything from a footballing point of view, it's a let off for all involved with player recruitment at the club to say rebuilds have to be slowly done over years when there a clear examples of them being done within a season by clubs with bigger expectations to compete for league/European titles.
 

Foxbatt

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These days gradual process do not make a team. World class players are not going to hang around for a few years to play in a good team. They will want to win trophies and that is something we should understand. I really do not understand why people say give more time. Yes a full summer window and a January window needs to be at least competitive. Top players make a top team with a top manager. You give mediocre players to even top managers and they can only do so much. Give mediocre players to a mediocre manager and he will only get the team to be mediocre.
 

lysglimt

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Some fans really need to take their Ole tinted glasses off, when you have to give credit to a manager for getting rid of players. Christ. Talk about clutching at straws. That’s not an achievement or whatsoever, it’s part of his job fundamentals and in fact, it’s nothing to be proud of. Like in any professional job, I wonder if a manager would be lauded for firing an employee.
And yet - 3 weeks ago, quite a few persons here were ridiculing OGS for doing exactly the opposite.
 

roonster09

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And yet - 3 weeks ago, quite a few persons here were ridiculing OGS for doing exactly the opposite.
Exactly, not to forget people posting those Everton post match quotes everyday.
 

Enigma_87

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And yet - 3 weeks ago, quite a few persons here were ridiculing OGS for doing exactly the opposite.
The issue is that those players weren’t replaced. They obviously needed to go, but only if you find suitable replacements.
 

Fosu-Mens

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Best we can hope to get from OGS this season is that he is able to create the fundations for a winning culture (i.e. Maguire was expensive because of his "winning personality"). His previous club Molde seems to have a good and ambitious culture, so maybe this can be done at Carrington. Maybe.

As for implementing a playstyle that is not completely based on coincidences and individualistic moments, this is not going to happen. OGS is not a tactical manager, and will make our team play as a team. And he is not the manager to improve our players technical and passing abilities. The current coaching team and manager is simply not good enough in the long run and his focus on British players does not compute with improving the team and squad over 2-3 windows without spending unrealistic amounts of money.
 

sunama

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The problem here is Woodward. So I don't think y'all folk need to be slapping each other balls over little nuances. No manager can be successful in the way we expect under the clown and the wretched owners.
Agreed 100%.
As long as Woodward is in charge of footballing matters, every manager will fail. Moyes, LVG, Jose (though he did win trophies and get 2nd place) and now Ole. The next candidate will also fail - I have absolutely no doubt about it.

The common denominator in all this failure is Mr Edward Woodward.
 

RooneyLegend

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I dont see what's so special about us to have not done more of a rebuild when teams like Atletico and Juventus brought in more players and sold quite a few as well and those are teams with high standards that wouldnt be allowed a write off season like many fans are allowing with Solskjear this season, we may as well of done a big rebuild this season if many fans are happy to even finish 8th this season, we had nothing to lose.
A rebuild simply cant take place without a manager worth his salt. Until we find that we're spinning in circles. Juve rebuild sides with the likes of Allegri in charge and Atletico with Simeone in charge. We have a rookie bloke who hasn't an idea. Don't know who ever thinks this is a good idea.
 

Jackal

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Pretty sure Pogba will leave in the summer, can't see him signing a new contract.
His career will stagnate if he remains at United.

The ambition of the club is miles lower than Pogba's.