Arab protests of 2019 (and beyond)

2cents

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Mr H said:
What 'most people consider to be the middle east' is not the defintion of the middle east, nor is it how people from Morroco/Algeria/Tunisia see it. And if it's not the official definition of it, and is not how people from those regions sees it...

The middle east begins at Egypt. It's lazy (no offense) to put all the countries from North Africa in the 'middle east' just because they share a religion and talk 'the same langage'. And I'm putting same langage between quotes because other than the official Arabic, used in official documents,the kind of Arabic used in those countries is different. The further you go from Algeria/Morroco, the more different it is.
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No offense but you understand what ‘fringe’ means, yeah? I mean, the whole reason I mentioned the Middle East in the OP was to justify opening another thread alongside the ‘Middle East Politics’ thread since most people wouldn’t consider Sudan and Algeria as part of the Middle East. Otherwise I’d just have continued the conversation in there. So I’m not sure what exactly you’re arguing.

There is a concept of the Greater Middle East which incorporates peripheral areas like the Maghreb, Upper Nile Valley and parts of Central Asia due to their shared heritage with the central Middle East. It’s one reason why, for example, academic societies with a focus on the Middle East like MESA embrace scholarship on those regions.

By the way I’ve lived and studied Arabic in Morocco so well aware of all the regional differences. I find the claim that the Maghrib has “nothing” to do with the Middle East in terms of culture quite weird.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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The Transitional Council that ousted Al Bashir in Sudan, under pressure from protesters and some factions of the army, has stepped down.

A new council unaffiliated with the regime has taken over.
 

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africanspur

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I so so desperately hope they succeed. The main argument of despots like Sisi and their acolytes across North Africa and the Middle East has always been 'look at Syria, look at Yemen, look at Libya'. This won't work here.

They don't even need to be economic powerhouses, just countries with a good level of political involvement and some progress. It would be great to turn around and say 'What about Tunisia? What about Algeria? What about Sudan?

The argument for despotism becomes so much harder when you can't just dismiss democracy and the idea of political involvement as a silly Western idea that would collapse your country.
 

2cents

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Still going, albeit the Sudanese military seems to be amping up the repression:


 

Jaqen H'ghar

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africanspur said:
I so so desperately hope they succeed. The main argument of despots like Sisi and their acolytes across North Africa and the Middle East has always been 'look at Syria, look at Yemen, look at Libya'. This won't work here.

They don't even need to be economic powerhouses, just countries with a good level of political involvement and some progress. It would be great to turn around and say 'What about Tunisia? What about Algeria? What about Sudan?

The argument for despotism becomes so much harder when you can't just dismiss democracy and the idea of political involvement as a silly Western idea that would collapse your country.
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Good post. Despotic regimes are trying to influence the outcomes in Sudan and Algeria, as witnessed by Sisi asking the African Union to extend the deadline for the Sudanese Military for handing over power to a civilian government, and the 3 billion dollars pledged by KSA and UAE.

Despotic regimes in the middle east are afraid a successful example of democracy in the region would inspire others to question the monarchies/dictatorships in their own countries.

Also, countries seeking regional influence need their neighbors to be weak and reliant on them in one way or another.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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2cents said:
Still going, albeit the Sudanese military seems to be amping up the repression:


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Talks in Sudan are supposed to have resumed today. The military seem very reluctant to hand over power, and keep coming up with excuses to prolong talks.

My impression is that they are waiting to see if the can secure international recognition for a military government, in which case they'll hold on to power.
 

africanspur

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Jaqen H'ghar said:
Good post. Despotic regimes are trying to influence the outcomes in Sudan and Algeria, as witnessed by Sisi asking the African Union to extend the deadline for the Sudanese Military for handing over power to a civilian government, and the 3 billion dollars pledged by KSA and UAE.

Despotic regimes in the middle east are afraid a successful example of democracy in the region would inspire others to question the monarchies/dictatorships in their own countries.

Also, countries seeking regional influence need their neighbors to be weak and reliant on them in one way or another.
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Yep. Sisi is going to do everything he can to make sure nothing approaches democracy comes into his two African neighbours. It would be literally impossible for him and his supporters to carry on claiming with a straight face thst democracy would lead to downfall of the state if Sudan and Libya manage to maintain some kind of democracy.

The Gulf monarchies are exactly the same and have a lot more money too.

Seems the generals aren't backing down but what's heartening is that the civilians don't seem to be either and they have learnt their lessons from the Egyptians. Good luck to the Sudanese.
 

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https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158024946779460&id=640559459

About the general strike currently ongoing.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...back-army-in-push-to-preserve-sharia-11568460

Sudanese Islamists seemingly preferring the army to preserve sharia law (dicks if true).

https://news.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/kzmgyw/this-warlord-could-determine-the-future-of-sudan

A 'general/warlord' who could tip the balance of power?

@Jaqen H'ghar, you have links to Sudan right?

What do you think of these articles, accurate or no?
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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africanspur said:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158024946779460&id=640559459

About the general strike currently ongoing.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...back-army-in-push-to-preserve-sharia-11568460

Sudanese Islamists seemingly preferring the army to preserve sharia law (dicks if true).

https://news.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/kzmgyw/this-warlord-could-determine-the-future-of-sudan

A 'general/warlord' who could tip the balance of power?

@Jaqen H'ghar, you have links to Sudan right?

What do you think of these articles, accurate or no?
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I'm Sudanese, and currently in Sudan.

The strike was for forty eight hours, Tuesday and Wednesday, and was largely successful. Saudi airline companies (Saudi Airlines and Nas) managed to sneak some flights, but otherwise airports were closed. The Bank of Sudan and the Central Bank announced they will continue the strike indefinitely after one of their employees was assaulted (by Hemedti's forces). Doctors have been on strike since last year.

Things may escalate to a full civil disobedience.

Islamists are backing the council and asking them not to hand over power to the 'secular, atheist, communist' Forces for Freedom and change, an alliance of over sixty parties and 200 trade unions. The military is amplifying Islamists voices because it suits their agenda, claiming that FFC does not represent all Sudanese and that Islamists are at being sidelined and that leftist want to hijack the revolution etc. Islamists have threatened violence if the army hands over power, and with elements like Elgizouli (mentioned in the article)* who once pledged alleigence to ISIS, they are sure to try. They are not many and are not the main threat.

The Warlord General, Hemedti, as he's known is a scary mothefecker .. he's as scary as the article suggests and then some.

*edit: in the article he's named Jazuli
 
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2cents

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2cents

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Adisa

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You have to be a real cnut to shoot live bullets into crowds.
 

2cents

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Jaqen H'ghar

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2cents said:
Any more news @Jaqen H'ghar?
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Internet is back after over a month of black out. It's been a very strange few months where emotions fluctuated between fear, concern, optimism, hope, euphoria and despair, sometimes going through the whole spectrum of emotions in a day. The Million Strong March on June 30th being the latest example. The event was organized amid the internet blackout by word of mouth, graffiti and posters in the streets. Despite threats by the TMC huge crowds turned up, defiant proud and determined. The day ended in anger and sorrow though, after at Hemedti's RSF opened fire on protesters killing at least 3 and injuring dozens.

The African Union and Ethiopian mediation seems to have been fruitful, with the TMC and FFC expected to be signed this week. Many are unhappy with this, especially after the massacre on 29th Ramadan, it feels morally wrong and naive to try to reason with the military council.
 

2cents

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Good to hear from you @Jaqen H'ghar. Must be weird being cut off from the world like that.
 

2cents

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Something to keep an eye on. Apparently not limited to Cairo:

 

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2cents

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syrian_scholes said:
Every time I see protests now my heart breaks for my Syria, they stole it from us. :(
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Despite everything, brave Syrians are still protesting. From Deir Ezzor today:


And Idlib:

 
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