Not really
He's seen as someone who can be nice to players, say the right things and maybe break the cliques.
Are English players overrated or is it Southgate ?
- Thread starter 432JuanMata
- Start date
He's seen as someone who can be nice to players, say the right things and maybe break the cliques.
Yep - he got 27 minutes, of which 17 were without a centre forward to link with and the entire 27 minutes were without Foden would be the perfect link player for him. Was an insane bit of management this evening.Feck me he got 27 minutes you lunatics
Coming into a game and making an impact is hard as it is, yet I see online both Rashford and Grealish are getting shit for not instantly turning the game around. Mad when they both got a measly amount of minutes.
'he combines the frictionless skate of Lionel Messi with the aggressive bounce of Diego Maradona – his uniqueness is what makes him special.' Guardian article talking about Foden. Ridiculous and standard vastly overrating of young English players.
Maybe you're right. I just imagined being bollocked back then for suggesting to calm down with laudations before any serious opponent.
KDB came on at HT, that’s a massive difference as all of us who’ve played are well aware.
Southgate was useless it's not a conversation
Gary Neville does.
The very obvious question mark here is Southgate - what is he done as a a manger? Where were his successes? Did his teams play the type of football we want to see?
Individually we’re stacked with talent but we play like a team who have just met up and had a few days training together.
Individually we’re stacked with talent but we play like a team who have just met up and had a few days training together.
You really do have a high opinion of yourself, but talk absolute garbage.
It was CLEAR AS DAY what the poster said, he did more in less time. Within ten minutes he set up a goal, within 25 minutes he scored.
Not really hard to comprehend!
You are stacked with attacking talent but you are very weak in central midfield and your defence is no more than average.
England underperforming has little to do with player quality, plenty do to with a manager that's completely unable to take advantage of the quality available. Maguire back into the starting lineup and, on paper, England has a rock solid back 4 and the centre midfield is far from a pushover. Harry Kane is easily one of the worlds best strikers, ends up looking like a complete dud.
Every manager would fecking love the chance to choose combinations between Sterling, Kane, Foden, Mount, Sancho, Grealish and Rashford, yet the attacking football on display is atrocious.
Patricio, Pepe, Guerreiro, Danilo, Renato, Bernardo....Portugal has 3 players that would walk into Englands starting 11, Dias, Bruno and Ronaldo.
Germany have a better goalkeeper, easily, but Kroos isn't the player he was years ago, neither is Muller. Kimmich isn't all that, nor is Goretzka, Hummels?
Gundogan would be a solid addition to England.Verratti is vastly overrated, same with Donnarumma, Jorginho? Locatelli, Barella? Nope. Mancini is just a better manager and plays to their strengths.
That bit in bold is horrific.England underperforming has little to do with player quality, plenty do to with a manager that's completely unable to take advantage of the quality available. Maguire back into the starting lineup and, on paper, England has a rock solid back 4 and the centre midfield is far from a pushover. Harry Kane is easily one of the worlds best strikers, ends up looking like a complete dud.
Every manager would fecking love the chance to choose combinations between Sterling, Kane, Foden, Mount, Sancho, Grealish and Rashford, yet the attacking football on display is atrocious.
Patricio, Pepe, Guerreiro, Danilo, Renato, Bernardo....Portugal has 3 players that would walk into Englands starting 11, Dias, Bruno and Ronaldo.
Germany have a better goalkeeper, easily, but Kroos isn't the player he was years ago, neither is Muller. Kimmich isn't all that, nor is Goretzka, Hummels?
Verratti is vastly overrated, same with Donnarumma, Jorginho? Locatelli, Barella? Nope. Mancini is just a better manager and plays to their strengths.
And Ole did more in 10 minutes than any sub in PL history versus Notts Forrest, it’s a daft argument so no surprise you like it.
Should I point out the tonnes of games KDB has been subbed on and not made an immediate impact or any impact?
Hell, I’ve a shit load of Messi examples too where he failed to make an impact as a sub, that proves what? That he isn’t possibly the greatest player to ever play the game?
Coming in at HT is a completely different prospect to coming in later in the second half, we all know that. You come on “cold” as do all of the other players after a 15-20 break.
I couldn't disagree more with much of this.England underperforming has little to do with player quality, plenty do to with a manager that's completely unable to take advantage of the quality available. Maguire back into the starting lineup and, on paper, England has a rock solid back 4 and the centre midfield is far from a pushover. Harry Kane is easily one of the worlds best strikers, ends up looking like a complete dud.
Every manager would fecking love the chance to choose combinations between Sterling, Kane, Foden, Mount, Sancho, Grealish and Rashford, yet the attacking football on display is atrocious.
Patricio, Pepe, Guerreiro, Danilo, Renato, Bernardo....Portugal has 3 players that would walk into Englands starting 11, Dias, Bruno and Ronaldo.
Germany have a better goalkeeper, easily, but Kroos isn't the player he was years ago, neither is Muller. Kimmich isn't all that, nor is Goretzka, Hummels?
Verratti is vastly overrated, same with Donnarumma, Jorginho? Locatelli, Barella? Nope. Mancini is just a better manager and plays to their strengths.
Not sure if serious, but...Villarreal? 120 mins and 2 shots on target. Even the Croatia game was a United type performance.
England underperforming has little to do with player quality, plenty do to with a manager that's completely unable to take advantage of the quality available. Maguire back into the starting lineup and, on paper, England has a rock solid back 4 and the centre midfield is far from a pushover. Harry Kane is easily one of the worlds best strikers, ends up looking like a complete dud.
Every manager would fecking love the chance to choose combinations between Sterling, Kane, Foden, Mount, Sancho, Grealish and Rashford, yet the attacking football on display is atrocious.
Patricio, Pepe, Guerreiro, Danilo, Renato, Bernardo....Portugal has 3 players that would walk into Englands starting 11, Dias, Bruno and Ronaldo.
Germany have a better goalkeeper, easily, but Kroos isn't the player he was years ago, neither is Muller. Kimmich isn't all that, nor is Goretzka, Hummels?
Verratti is vastly overrated, same with Donnarumma, Jorginho? Locatelli, Barella? Nope. Mancini is just a better manager and plays to their strengths.
This is maybe the greatest collection of awful takes I've ever seen condensed into a single post on here?
Imagine actually trying to suggest KDB coming on at HT had it easier when his side was losing 1 nil and the opposition were at home, playing better, than Grealish coming on with 25+ minutes left against a tired Scotland outfit at home and up against a player who plays for Motherwell.
Deary me.
Same with Sancho, wait till he plays he’ll be as clueless (he was already terrible in the friendly before the tournament). I don’t believe the issue is the players it’s the manager.
Southgate to get sacked after this tournament and take over Spurs. The fallout would be amazing.
Southgate is a really poor manager and the team plays worse because of it. Personally, I don't think this squad is as good as people make out. Some of the individuals are very good but as ever with England, it looks like a collection of individuals who have a vague idea of what they have to do, just strolling around the pitch.
I'll take us getting KO in the group for that to happen.
I don't get your point, are you saying 27mins isn't enough time to make an impact as a sub?
Solid nope.England underperforming has little to do with player quality, plenty do to with a manager that's completely unable to take advantage of the quality available. Maguire back into the starting lineup and, on paper, England has a rock solid back 4 and the centre midfield is far from a pushover. Harry Kane is easily one of the worlds best strikers, ends up looking like a complete dud.
Every manager would fecking love the chance to choose combinations between Sterling, Kane, Foden, Mount, Sancho, Grealish and Rashford, yet the attacking football on display is atrocious.
Patricio, Pepe, Guerreiro, Danilo, Renato, Bernardo....Portugal has 3 players that would walk into Englands starting 11, Dias, Bruno and Ronaldo.
Germany have a better goalkeeper, easily, but Kroos isn't the player he was years ago, neither is Muller. Kimmich isn't all that, nor is Goretzka, Hummels?
Verratti is vastly overrated, same with Donnarumma, Jorginho? Locatelli, Barella? Nope. Mancini is just a better manager and plays to their strengths.
You’re a bit simple.Imagine actually trying to suggest KDB coming on at HT had it easier when his side was losing 1 nil and the opposition were at home, playing better, than Grealish coming on with 25+ minutes left against a tired Scotland outfit at home and up against a player who plays for Motherwell.
Deary me.
It was class from KDB, but he, just like every other player has has games where he struggled to make any impact as a sub.
Because he did it in one game means what? He’s better than a player that struggled make an impact when he was once subbed in and proof that every top player should make an impact from the bench? you know this is every player in history right?
It’s an uttery stupid argument.
Yep. Had Portugal right up there with France pre tournament; more balanced if anything. Cancelo a loss though. But on paper someone like Germany is definitely ahead as well, but they're not gonna hit their peak this tournament.
England has much better talent than at any point since the mid 2000's, but its an unbalanced squad because of the spine weaknesses and more than anything down to Southgate sure. But they were never favourites.
You think playing like that as a unit doesn’t come from quality, like its all due to Mancini right? People are too PL based on here. Nowhere near you’ve said, mad.
The keeper and CB’s from Italy are all far better. No question. Spinazola I would also take over Shaw, but not by much. And ReeceJames hasn’t shown enough for me to take over Di Lorenzo from Napoli.Di Lorenzo plays more intelligently and passes better, Reece James ruins so many attacks, really wasteful.
And the most important thing is the midfield in which Italy just kills England. Mount is a good dynamic player, who can make runs, but as in taking good positions, tactically aware and playing between the lines, Barella and Locatelli are better.They are playing as number 8’s for Italy. All three midfielders from Italy are press resistant, know how to position to get open for a pass, can make one touch passes in tight spaces, tactically aware and excellent technically. England midfielders aren’t as good in those areas, they have more pace and power in midfield, but that doesn’t helps you as much. Playing Bellingham and Mount as nr 8’s would be much better though. .
In the attack, I would also take Insigne over Sterling. Insigne is better at keeping the ball and making short and fast combinations in tight spaces. He is like an extra playmaker on the wing, which helps when you want to play free flowing football. Sterling is good, but shines more with space and being an end station. He will not help make your team play better like Insigne. Both are awful finishers though imo. Furthermore only Kane and Foden would get in the Italian team.
The Italian team coming in was the most underrated team of the tournament. Locatelli and Barella don’t have a big name yet, maybe that was part of it. But the Italian midfield is actually the best in the tournament imo, filled with creativity, intelligence and movement. They are the best keeping the ball and pressing intelligently. They are playing almost like a lesser version of prime Spain.Every game ive seen of them recently they’ve dominated, its no coincidence they are playing like this in the tournament. They’ve done it in every game they’ve played in recent past.
I’m saying 27 minutes at the end of the game has often not been enough even for the best players ever to play the game to make an impact. Sometimes a shit player like Macheda needs less time, sometimes even 45 minutes aint enough for KdB or Leo Messi.
What is easier is coming on at HT when all players are “cold” after a break, than coming in mid game. But even then, it’s different for every game.
It’s a daft argument. Next time KDB struggles from the bench I’ll quickly claim Chicarito proves he’s overrated.
If Grealish not making an impact in 27 minutes shows he’s overrated “cause KDB” well I’ve about 1000 examples of overrated players, all of them the best to ever play the game.
Southgate for me. He’s making some utterly bizarre decisions. I know we won the game vs Croatia, but Trippier on the left when Shaw and Chilwell are available. Madness. And again today be Scotland, Rashford subbed in as striker, not intruding Sancho, keeping Sterling on....all unbelievable.
Yeah, that vicious abe agenda.
Yes and no. There are a fair few English players that are over rated in my opinion, but then any league in the world will hav eplayers there own country rate higher than those outside of it.
BUT....we do have some great young talents, look at how well Foden, Mount, James, Chilwell for example did in the champions league. The problem we do have and have had for a long time is a lot of English players simply dont replicate there club form for various reasons in an England jersey. You can go right back to Hoddle and Barnes through to Lampard and Gerrard. A lot of this young crop have barel played for England and doing it in group games and friendlies in comparison to finals is a different ball game entirely....in fact going right back to Euro 96, could probably not fill the fingers on my hands with players that have really excelled in an international career for us in comparison to the club players they are.
But lets not say these players are vastly over rated. Premiership prices are prohibitive but a lot of countries and clubs in the world would like to have some of the young players we have coming through currently. We shouldnt slaughter them after a couple of bad performances....nor should we rave about them quite yet when they havent proved themseolves over a decent time frame.
BUT....we do have some great young talents, look at how well Foden, Mount, James, Chilwell for example did in the champions league. The problem we do have and have had for a long time is a lot of English players simply dont replicate there club form for various reasons in an England jersey. You can go right back to Hoddle and Barnes through to Lampard and Gerrard. A lot of this young crop have barel played for England and doing it in group games and friendlies in comparison to finals is a different ball game entirely....in fact going right back to Euro 96, could probably not fill the fingers on my hands with players that have really excelled in an international career for us in comparison to the club players they are.
But lets not say these players are vastly over rated. Premiership prices are prohibitive but a lot of countries and clubs in the world would like to have some of the young players we have coming through currently. We shouldnt slaughter them after a couple of bad performances....nor should we rave about them quite yet when they havent proved themseolves over a decent time frame.
It's Southgate, he's a joke. We have immense talent it's quite ridiculous, but he's absolutely tripe.
England got many good players. No squads are flawless in international football and often player from smaller teams can do well at international level.
Like look at the Spain squad. They have Torres, Olmo and Morata up front these days. English side much better.
I think Southgate is decent and taken England to a high level after some poor years. Problem is he is probably not the guy to take them to the next level that wins a tournament.
Like look at the Spain squad. They have Torres, Olmo and Morata up front these days. English side much better.
I think Southgate is decent and taken England to a high level after some poor years. Problem is he is probably not the guy to take them to the next level that wins a tournament.
Bellingham is already better (offers much more) than Rice and Phillips can play the lone DM well on his own. Southgate is just too safe. I also genuinely think JWP offers more than Rice in this system - we just seem so impotent offensively.
CB we have enough depth to be competitive - I don’t think we have anyone truly elite level and same for GK which is why I’d understand if we’d setup that way against a Belgium or France but against Scotland?
I don’t mind losing or drawing if we’ve played well and been unlucky against teams we’re expected to beat and they’ve done a smash and grab. I really mind when we’ve arguably been outplayed and look so disjointed and poor.
Kroos, Kimmich, Muller are among the best in the world in their positions and miles better than the equivalents for England (unless you think Philljps is world class?). You saying Kimmich isn't anything special is remarkable by the way. Same with Verratti. Among the best midfielders in world football. I presume Pickford is better than Donnarumma, Mings and Stones are better than Hummels, Muller isn't on Fodens level, etc... Goretzka is an excellent player as well. Not sure how anyone who has watched any football outside of England could say any of the bullshit you've said tbh.England underperforming has little to do with player quality, plenty do to with a manager that's completely unable to take advantage of the quality available. Maguire back into the starting lineup and, on paper, England has a rock solid back 4 and the centre midfield is far from a pushover. Harry Kane is easily one of the worlds best strikers, ends up looking like a complete dud.
Every manager would fecking love the chance to choose combinations between Sterling, Kane, Foden, Mount, Sancho, Grealish and Rashford, yet the attacking football on display is atrocious.
Patricio, Pepe, Guerreiro, Danilo, Renato, Bernardo....Portugal has 3 players that would walk into Englands starting 11, Dias, Bruno and Ronaldo.
Germany have a better goalkeeper, easily, but Kroos isn't the player he was years ago, neither is Muller. Kimmich isn't all that, nor is Goretzka, Hummels?
Verratti is vastly overrated, same with Donnarumma, Jorginho? Locatelli, Barella? Nope. Mancini is just a better manager and plays to their strengths.
You name a list of players. Yeah, England has very good attacking players, except Kane has often struggled when overplayed over the past few years. Who do they have in midfield? Their centerbacks are garbage after Maguire, and he's injured. Their goalkeepers are garbage. That's not a great team. It's so very far from the very top English sides. Take off the English tinted glasses, no non englishman would say otherwise. The way you speak about those German and Italian midfielders is crazy.
Poor tactics and Overly cautious football. Why are we playing a flat back 4 and 2 holding midfielders against a team that are going to play 10 men behind the ball? Why are we so lethargic? Most of that match was our front 4 versus their back 10. Defensive dross.
whichever way you cut it, we should be way better than that showing against scotland. that’s on southgate. without a body of work behind him you just have to assume he’s not up to it.
Yeah it's a whole new level of crazy his post
Or... You're just nowhere near as good as you think you are?
Southgate is a worse manager than Big Sam
A bit off topic but personally I can't understand why Ricardo Pereira doesn't get a look in - he's comfortably better than Semedo or Dalot for me at least!