Yeah think that's a given, we're still a counter attacking side, the worry is the defence isn't that solid to perform it against the very best sides.
Are English players overrated or is it Southgate ?
- Thread starter 432JuanMata
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How many international teams are managed by someone who isn't from the country? And particularly at this current tournament?
How many top class English club sides have English managers and have had historically (last ten years)?
All the best sides hire foreign managers. The two CL finalists were coached by a German and a Spaniard.
Trent would start, but over the others on the right Di Lorenzo isn’t worse by any means. Reece James is overrated, all his attacking contributions are a thing of almost. And for me Spinazzola is better than Shaw, although there wouldn’t be much in it to be fair.
Foden has hardly played in midfield in his career. People like to think of him as a 10 or even 8, but the guy has made most of his minutes on the left wing. He hasn’t shown me he can be a better midfielder than a guy like Localtelli. Who is very mature in his play, but still manages to be creative. Like a real midfielfd maestro, Foden is still a boy compared to him. Mount is good as a guy who can make runs and dribbles, but doesn’t let his team play better like a Locatelli, especially in a 4-3-3 setup. Playing between the lines, playing one touch passes in tight spaces, intelligence and touch, I would say Locatelli is better.
I want England to win something. All England managers are crap. Simple as that. When the best we can come up with is Eddie Howe ahead of Gareth Southgate we clearly have issues. Maybe for once if the FA hired someone on merit rather than being a yes man we might get somewhere.
I don't really get the point you're trying to make?
I just told you I was referring to the undroppable Kane and Sterling. I'd just drop Foden because it's not his best position where he is being put.
In what world can you call Grealish an established star under Southgate? He's barely had any starts. We all know at club level he is and should be starting.
But what happens from here is directly impacted by this madness. The media circus will be huge, the pressure on certain players will be massive and it will become a team playing with fear.
It's always the same with the English team. If you play in a team where the entire nation is looking for someone to blame for not winning the tournament, it's not exactly an environment to play carefree attacking football.
I couldn't care less if England never win another tournament but I find it incredible that this happens every 2 years and England fans don't realise that they're a big part of the problem.
I don't think you can blame the fans. The fans come to the stadium in numbers and they will support what's on show on the pitch. They have every right to expect England with it's £50-150mil. players to be able to string 5 passes together and create more than a couple of chances against Croatia and Scotland at Wembley. At the end of the day if what you see for 90 minutes isn't worth watching then football loses all meaning. We invented football because it's worth watching. It's not a natural occurrence like an ocean and so we have to deal with it.
I'm also not sure the pressure in England is any bigger than in countries like Germany, Spain etc.
- Kane is phenomenal, so is Grealish and Foden.
- Bellingham is a big talent capable of lighting up matches like Gilmour did.
- Sancho is a very good player capable of unlocking deep defences, like Scotland.
- Mount is a very good player who along with James, looks different under Tuchel.
All of this points to one thing. We have a complete shite manager.
- Bellingham is a big talent capable of lighting up matches like Gilmour did.
- Sancho is a very good player capable of unlocking deep defences, like Scotland.
- Mount is a very good player who along with James, looks different under Tuchel.
All of this points to one thing. We have a complete shite manager.
The Italian and French (maybe Spain too) press put far more pressure on their national sides compared to the English press.
Yet they (the players) have that arrogance, self esteem/confidence to revel in such circumstances.
Yet they (the players) have that arrogance, self esteem/confidence to revel in such circumstances.
That is not the point though. Club management requires you to succeed with the best players you can afford, international coaches have to do with the best national players. England have players that have always had talent but when you have coaches that use a negative system then it leaves you wanting. Clarke hasn’t had great success at club level but got his team playing to a system that worked with the players available. Southgate has talented players but has dogmatically stuck to a system that employs defensively sound players while negating the use of an effective playmaker. He also has FBs that overlap well for club but for England they pass sideways.
There are English coaches far better than Southgate like Potter and Parker.( sounds like an Estate Agents)
Hoddle and Venables were good thinking coaches. If it’s only a case of picking successful coaches hardly any national team would have a coach. Holland have De Boer who’s most well known achievement was completely fecking up Palace but is getting the best out of this Holland side. I’m sure he’d love Kane, Sancho and Grealish.
Pretty much this. I'd also stick Shaw into the very good bucket, when played.
I’d say almost any English manager with top flight experience is more qualified than Southgate though. He had a few seasons at Middlesbrough without really doing anything bar getting relegated…Howe, Potter, Bruce, Dyche, Hughton, Wilder, Smith, Redknapp, Pardew etc. Have all had better careers. Even Lampard has done more than him as a manager.
Oh definitely, Shaw was the best left back in the league.
I'm surprised we have posts doubting England's quality. We have so much top talent, and struggle against shit teams, there's obviously one problem and it's not the players.
Yup. Some of the nonsense posted about the players since FT has been mental. They played terribly, agreed, but there's a huge amount of quality there and one terrible performance doesn't change that. Southgate is the real problem.
They are used to already:
Donnarumma: leader at Milan
Di Lorenzo, Spinazzola: rotational players
Bonucci/Chiellini: leaders at Juve
Barella, Jorginho, Verratti, Locatelli: key players at their respective teams
Insigne: leader at Napoli
Immobile: leader at Lazio
Berardi: leader at Sassuolo
…
Acerbi: key player at Lazio
Bastoni: emerging player at Inter
Cristante: key player at Roma
Pessina: emerging player at Atalanta
Chiesa: emerging player at Juve
Belotti: leader at Torino
Sure, you can say that all these Italian clubs are one, two or three notches below the PL superteams, but these players are used to pressure week in week out, because of their key roles. Add an astute, navigated, decorated as a player, now proven manager making them work as unit, to their full strength… and you have a team doing 120%.
These players deserve a better manager. Would love to see them under Mancini instead this guy who once finished 12th or so with Boro. It's a joke, really.
This is all cap. Mount just won the champions league with Chelsea being one of their main players. Locatelli is a player who couldn't live up to his hype at Milan and had to go to a tiny team to even bring some semblence of consistent play. He is playing great because he is in a system with a great manager.
Why no mention of Rashford?
J
In any case, England are always overhyped and aren’t top tier, but feel with the right manager and a bit of luck, they could win one of these tournaments. We’ve seen the likes of Portugal and Greece sneak one in fairly recent memory.
Just think there’s some similarity there, that’s all. I agree Southgate has much more at his disposal and still can’t suss it out.You are nutz if you think Ole wouldn't love that bench for options. We literally trying to buy Sancho to improve us and he can't get subbed on under Southgate
Love the way everyone is just throwing Ole in, and they both even aren't comparable. Our first 11 pretty much set in stone, where as Southgate actively leaving his best players on the bench. Aye they defo similar
In any case, England are always overhyped and aren’t top tier, but feel with the right manager and a bit of luck, they could win one of these tournaments. We’ve seen the likes of Portugal and Greece sneak one in fairly recent memory.
Cause he's overhyped
Locatelli left Milan when he was only 20 years old, kind of harsh to say he didn't live up to the hype.
Yet he mentioned James, Bellingham who has played 1 season of top flight football, Foden who has had a good 6 months in the PL playing for a team of superstars.
Rashford last season scored 21 goals 15 assists, the season before 22 goals 12 assists, numbers as good as Sancho but in a stronger league for most of his stats. Mount hasn't hit 10 goals in either of his last 2 seasons and the same for assists. Rashford in either one of his last 2 seasons has more goals and assists than both of Mounts last 2 seasons combined.
Rashford is overhyped but so are Foden, Bellingham, Sancho, Mount and James.
Rashford is the youngest player in history to score on his England debut, he has scored the fastest hatrick in CL history for a substitute. Only Ronaldo and Rooney were younger than Rashford to score 50 Man United goals in the clubs history.
Rashford puts up great stats and holds some great records yet he is 'overhyped' compared to players that have achieved less than him. If anything he is under rated.
We have too many options to say it's not mainly on Southgate.
Southgate's obviously shit (nobody will touch him after England) but I'm not sure how much coaching an international manager can do with the limited time. But his decision making is baffling on top of that.
Harsh but Mount was in the same position but actually rose to the level required to not just stay at Chelsea but become an important player in winning the champions league. He's proved to be a better player than Locatelli both performance wise and mentality wise.
Who the feck wrote that?
It is just Southgate.
English players aren't overrated. You've got one hell of a team. Insane quality and depth.
Ole has sussed it. We don't have the squad to win the league, he got maximum in my opinion of what he can get in the league already.
Southgate it absolutely mismanaging a bigger squad with more options.
There is a big difference in playing for a Milan that was a total mess during those years and a well oil machine as Chelsea...
Both are still young, one is playing for the CL winner and the other is probably joining a big club this summer.
Maybe Mount is the better player, but it's still to early to tell.
And performance wise and mentality wise during the euro I give it to Locatelli.
Because similar to Trent, he's not really available. He's playing through 2 injuries and needs a shoulder surgery at least. I'm putting him aside as a top class option for this campaign, and I didn't mention Trent because obviously, he's not on the squad.
Sancho not getting a single minute while Sterling who has been out of form all season stinking up the gaff playing all game is one of many reasons why Southgate is the issue.
He got them relegated
Fair enough.
The English FA are absolute cowards so it stands to reason that the men they entrust to manage England would also be cowards. It's such a fecking piss-take. The squad is chockablock full of title winners, CL winners and generational talent. And yet somehow we still look like absolute piss. It's infuriating.
The root problem is certainly the FA. They chronically make poor decisions and have decades of institutional corruption and I think, racism.
It's absolutely criminal that a nothing manager like Southgate has this much talent under his disposal. Woy would have done a much better job with this crop of players.