Are people going to insist this isn't as bad or worse than the nadirs of LVG and Moyes?

Minimalist

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
15,091
It's dire.

But ill be honest. It doesn't hurt as much. Moses was a shock to the system. Van Gaal was death by a thousand random passes and that random 70th minute RB substitution.
So shocking I don't even remember when we had Moses?!

:lol:;)
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
27,359
It's so much worse because you have to expect so much more from Mourinho and his sides. And that's before you take into account how much each spent on players.

I expect a Mourinho team to be well drilled, to be defensively organised, to fight for each other on the pitch, to grind out games. He's delivering on absolutely none of these expectations now, and the club has only gone in one direction since his first season, and that's backwards. In all of these aspects.

His first season was actually by far his best and it clearly isn't going to get any better from here.
 

drdoityourself

Full Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
2,392
LvG promoted Rashford. Martial had his best days under him. Fosu-Mensah got a run.
He gave Lingard the role he has today, I don't like that bit but he gave youth a chance and a clear route to the team.

Moyes had Januzaj.

This guy has Scott McTominay. The embodiment of Mourinho's player here. Big, slow, no creativity or inspiration. You don't really see a route for young, talented players to make it under Mourinho. There is no bigger picture here, there is no evident pattern of the play, nor is there coaching that improves those who are already here.
There is nothing that suggests things will be better under Mourinho,

Moyes was woeful and defeatist but he never saw this kind of investment. He also had this crossing philosophy, an awful one but at least the players looked to he a sense or an idea on how they were going play.

LvG's football was so boring, but the players he promoted and the feeling of knowing that he would go out of his way to promote youth, make his years better in the memory than I'm sure this current manager will be remembered.
 

TwoSheds

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
12,741
This is 100% not worse than LVG or Moyes. I'm still moving into the Mourinho Out camp though, I really don't understand how Man Utd can just be so utterly middling and irrelevant, even with class cretin like Ed in charge and a load of soft players. They're still way above average in terms of ability.
 

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
I think Mourinho has been awful. Good league results last season but the football peaked under him in the first half of his first season and went downhill since then, barring a very few isolated matches here and there. It's unforgivable for the players to look this clueless under him, it's like he's not even doing his basic job of coaching them. Even last season when we were winning 4-0 I thought the football was unsophisticated and average at best.
Well, results wise I think it was far from awful. Sure football should have been better and as you said last year was average at best. This year everything is collapsing of course. If you take this season isolated then it is awful.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
Nothing is as bad as Moyes or ever will be (please say it wont be that bad again!)
But yeah this is as bad as Van Gaal when everyone except him knew he was getting fired in the summer.
Yes but that was terrible if everyone knew that he was getting fired in the summer. He won the FA Cup and we lost CL place on goals. But in this case we do not know if Jose is getting fired in the summer still and we are worse off now than when LVG was here.
 

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
LvG promoted Rashford. Martial had his best days under him. Fosu-Mensah got a run.
He gave Lingard the role he has today, I don't like that bit but he gave youth a chance and a clear route to the team.

Moyes had Januzaj.

This guy has Scott McTominay. The embodiment of Mourinho's player here. Big, slow, no creativity or inspiration. You don't really see a route for young, talented players to make it under Mourinho. There is no bigger picture here, there is no evident pattern of the play, nor is there coaching that improves those who are already here.
There is nothing that suggests things will be better under Mourinho,

Moyes was woeful and defeatist but he never saw this kind of investment. He also had this crossing philosophy, an awful one but at least the players looked to he a sense or an idea on how they were going play.

LvG's football was so boring, but the players he promoted and the feeling of knowing that he would go out of his way to promote youth, make his years better in the memory than I'm sure this current manager will be remembered.
He 'promoted' Rashford cause we didn't have any strikers left. That included Wilson. And that's cause he decided it was enough to have 2 strikers in the season and before that played Fellaini as a striker too.
He gave Lingard what role?
Moyes had Januzaj? So what?
Moyes had a philosophy? Come on, please.
Lvg's years wont and shouldn't be better in memory.
 

Nickelodeon

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
2,309
Does it matter if it’s equal, worse or better than LVG or Moyes? Does our bar have to be so low?
Are the pathetic football, 16 points behind leaders already and toxic public statements not enough to sack him already?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveJ

2 man midfield

Last Man Standing finalist 2021/22
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Messages
45,670
Location
?
About being a laughing stock - that ties in with the Champions of England suddenly looking like clowns due to the sheer drop in performance and competence. The difference now is people don't expect much from us anymore and can barely be bothered to even mock our incompetence like they took great delight in at that time. Our shiteness over the time in the doldrums has dulled the critics. It's akin to poking at a once lively predator who is already on his last legs and no longer offers the threat and majesty it once did. Not much fun in that, which is why we've mostly been left alone now, or even pitied by fans and media who used to hate us.
I don’t think it was the fact that Moyes tenure immediately followed Fergie that led to him being that much of a laughing stock. It was more to do with the constant defeats and general feeling of negativity. We weren’t even anywhere near teams like Jose’s Chelsea - who had a 45 year old Samuel Eto’o up front who managed to bag a hat-trick. At least Jose had us challenging in the big games. We won 3-2 at the Etihad under Jose, against a much better Man City than the one Moyes lost 4-1 to. I just don’t see the comparison.

specially so with Jose under-performing now to a level that exceeds Moyes by all metrics.
We’re worse off after 14 games than we were in 13/14, but let’s not forget that the level of teams in Moyes season was far below what we have now. Spurs weren’t the force they are now, Arsenal were...well, Arsenal. Chelsea weren’t much to shout about, it was only really Liverpool and City that looked like they had their shit together. For Jose to finish 2nd last season in this current league was enough to see him kept on and backed, in my opinion. With Moyes, he didn’t even get to the summer at the end of his first year, he was that shit.
 

iKeano

Full Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
1,745
It's brutal.
The board don't care cause Golden Goose Ed is bringing in more partners than a barn dance.
The players don't care cause the modern era seems to suggest you've "made it" when you get signed for Utd and not what you win when at Utd... Seeking solace in Cheshire mansions must be comforting.
José doesn't care about anyone or anything other than himself and when he's gone (hopefully ASAP) he'll sling more shit at Utd than we're currently listening to him talk week in week out.
The entire club is a mess and because the Glazers pockets are being lined by Ed and his buisness, nothing is going to change.
Man Utd Financial Corporation. Not my MUFC.
 

izec

Full Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
27,164
Location
Lucilinburhuc
It is the worst i have felt watching us since 1998. Moyes comes close, but the worst under Moyes came to his end after the new year, while we still got months of this shite going on and we are getting tortured already for months. Completely hopeless, a big club with ambitions would have sacked him after Sevilla
 

drdoityourself

Full Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
2,392
He 'promoted' Rashford cause we didn't have any strikers left. That included Wilson. And that's cause he decided it was enough to have 2 strikers in the season and before that played Fellaini as a striker too.
He gave Lingard what role?
Moyes had Januzaj? So what?
Moyes had a philosophy? Come on, please.
Lvg's years wont and shouldn't be better in memory.
Yes he decided to have fewer strikers, and that can lead to younger players getting a chance.
You look at Mourinho here that didn't want to sell woeful Darmian because he needed him for two games in the beginning of the season. God forbid having to look to younger players. We now have a manager that bloats the squad with average players because he is so afraid of having to delve into the youth team.

He gave youth product Lingard his place in the squad, I am not a Lingard fan so I can't really say much about what that role is.

Moyes played Januzaj, I seriously doubt if you put Mourinho in as a manager in that situation, he would have given him a fair chance. Januzaj gave me at least, some of the best moments of that season.

Moyes had a philosophy of going down the flanks and crossing. Yes it was woeful but at least there is a sense or idea what the team is trying to achieve.
I see no attacking patterns under Mourinho.
 

Farfetched

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
166
Just like the LVG era we are slowly drifting away from the top. Other than the two goals there was very little in our play today to suggest that we are not anything more than a mid table team competing for a Europa league place.
 

peridigm

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
13,781
Who was an unknown? Thiago, Kroos?

The point that many seem to ignore about LVG is that wasn’t the finished product by any means, that was not his style, if you’d given him a Pogba and Fred to throw in with Carrick that team would have been transformed and more like it was supposed to be.

I do think at the time Jose would have had more pull, he’s a far more recognisable name, but the way we were we would have had lots of opportunities for young players to come in play and develop together.
He as in Moyes.
 

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
Yes he decided to have fewer strikers, and that can lead to younger players getting a chance.
You look at Mourinho here that didn't want to sell woeful Darmian because he needed him for two games in the beginning of the season. God forbid having to look to younger players. We now have a manager that bloats the squad with average players because he is so afraid of having to delve into the youth team.

He gave youth product Lingard his place in the squad, I am not a Lingard fan so I can't really say much about what that role is.

Moyes played Januzaj, I seriously doubt if you put Mourinho in as a manager in that situation, he would have given him a fair chance. Januzaj gave me at least, some of the best moments of that season.

Moyes had a philosophy of going down the flanks and crossing. Yes it was woeful but at least there is a sense or idea what the team is trying to achieve.
I see no attacking patterns under Mourinho.
If you believe he had few strikers so he could give youth a chance than good for you. I bet he was thinking I'll go into the season with 2 strikers cause I guess some young strikers will come out from somewhere.
He gave youth a chance just for the sake of it, if you remember McNair for example.
Moyes played Januzaj? So what? Are you saying Mourinho didn't play young players nor does he give them a chance?
Januzaj had about what 4, 5 good games if that.
 

Anustart89

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
15,912
Let's say de Gea is the only one to leave as a result of poor performances under Mourinho, and he leaves for £50m on an expiring contract. It'll either force us to shell out £100m for Oblak or significantly worsen in the position for £50m if we sign a Pickford or someone of that ilk. So in order to save £15m on sacking Mourinho, we'll lose £35m on de Gea alone, not to mention what it'll cost to replace Pogba, Martial and the likes.

How the financially savvy people at the top of United's management structure can't see this is beyond me. Even bringing in a new manager with a new project might persuade some of the above mentioned players to stay, even if performances don't turn around immediately. Plus a new manager might actually have a chance of taking us into the CL, which would be worth significantly more than £15m.
 

ravi2

Full Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
9,043
Location
Canada
The worst thing is that I've stopped caring, totally numb.
MUFC games used to be must see TV for me and my friends.
Most of my friends have better shit to do these days. I still watch the games, but admittedly spend half the time on my phone

Another season of this and Ill find better shit to do as well, I dont plan my days around when United plays anymore
 

ravi2

Full Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
9,043
Location
Canada
Let's say de Gea is the only one to leave as a result of poor performances under Mourinho, and he leaves for £50m on an expiring contract. It'll either force us to shell out £100m for Oblak or significantly worsen in the position for £50m if we sign a Pickford or someone of that ilk. So in order to save £15m on sacking Mourinho, we'll lose £35m on de Gea alone, not to mention what it'll cost to replace Pogba, Martial and the likes.

How the financially savvy people at the top of United's management structure can't see this is beyond me. Even bringing in a new manager with a new project might persuade some of the above mentioned players to stay, even if performances don't turn around immediately. Plus a new manager might actually have a chance of taking us into the CL, which would be worth significantly more than £15m.
Our board is not proactive, they are reactive. This will only change when Ed and/or the Glazers leave.
 

Rash Decision

not to use the cream
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
1,525
Location
In your closet, in your head!
Well, results wise I think it was far from awful. Sure football should have been better and as you said last year was average at best. This year everything is collapsing of course. If you take this season isolated then it is awful.
Yeah his league results last season were fairly good. My stance at the beginning of this season was that he didn't deserve to be sacked because of his results.

What makes him awful to me is the frequency with which he manages to make his players look like they're playing together for the first time. They don't look coached. Our football is overly reliant on individual skill. There's no sense that he's bringing his team together, no sign that one day his system will click and we'll improve from there. Not to mention that he makes players like Alexis Sanchez look awful. That's a terrible failure for a coach, because what's the use of him if not to train his players to improve as individuals and as a team? Plenty of lesser coaches are able to get inferior players to play with cohesion. We have generally been less than the sum of our parts under Mourinho since the second half of his first season here.

He's also completely classless and has shown tremendous disrespect for the club.
 

drdoityourself

Full Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
2,392
If you believe he had few strikers so he could give youth a chance than good for you. I bet he was thinking I'll go into the season with 2 strikers cause I guess some young strikers will come out from somewhere.
He gave youth a chance just for the sake of it, if you remember McNair for example.
Moyes played Januzaj? So what? Are you saying Mourinho didn't play young players nor does he give them a chance?
Januzaj had about what 4, 5 good games if that.
Yes I am saying that. It's all about creating an environment that can take advantage of the youth team. We refuse to sell Darmian so we have a fourth choice right back and a third choice left back.

LvG had a few mares, McNair and especially Blackett, but he created a route for the youth players.
I like the unknowns of that rather than this bloated, aging squad we have, with average players given chance after chance to put in the most predictable of performances.
 

Crustanoid

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
18,511
The board could also realise that trying to win leagues and champions league is a way of ensuring they get their grubby mits on top 4 money but they are too thick to realise that
 

spwd

likes: servals, breasts, rylan clark and zooey
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
8,609
Location
Lyecestershyre
In my opinion the shite lvg produced was the most boring football I’ve ever seen, this is very bad I’ll admit but it’s nowhere near that crap, we didn’t even try to score most of the time.
 

BigRon1985

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2018
Messages
549
Bring back LVG. This is far worse, you just have to look at it and see how poor these guys are coached and what instructions they are trying to execute.
Steady on! Although I have to admit I've always wondered how LVG's third season would have panned out on the back of an FA Cup win? :confused:
 

Fosu-Mens

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
4,101
Location
Fred | 2019/20 Performances
In my opinion the shite lvg produced was the most boring football I’ve ever seen, this is very bad I’ll admit but it’s nowhere near that crap, we didn’t even try to score most of the time.
Our players was still able to pass a simple ball under LVG, or string together more than two passes without losing control or through divine intervention.
And there was at least a resemblance of a plan on how to attack or score goals, even though we were not very succesful.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
In my opinion the shite lvg produced was the most boring football I’ve ever seen, this is very bad I’ll admit but it’s nowhere near that crap, we didn’t even try to score most of the time.
It was boring football I agree but at least we keep possession of the ball. This is just as boring but we do not even keep possession of the ball and we still do not try to score because we do not know how to try to score. The only thing is now the entertainment value for fans of other clubs. With LVG it was boring as hell for them too. At least now they can enjoy the football their teams play against us and we can enjoy the comedy part of this due to players like Lukaku.
 

spwd

likes: servals, breasts, rylan clark and zooey
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
8,609
Location
Lyecestershyre
Our players was still able to pass a simple ball under LVG, or string together more than two passes without losing control or through divine intervention.
And there was at least a resemblance of a plan on how to attack or score goals, even though we were not very succesful.
We could pass the ball about because every game was spent in our own half, also don’t agree we had a plan to attack and score goals other than wait for a piece of genius to happen.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
16,977
I think it's worse than Moyes and LVG results wise considering the investment in the squad and the fact that our GD is still MINUS 1.

MINUS 1 GD.
 

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
Yes I am saying that. It's all about creating an environment that can take advantage of the youth team. We refuse to sell Darmian so we have a fourth choice right back and a third choice left back.

LvG had a few mares, McNair and especially Blackett, but he created a route for the youth players.
I like the unknowns of that rather than this bloated, aging squad we have, with average players given chance after chance to put in the most predictable of performances.
He didn't create a route for youth or anything like that.
Aging squad? You should look at the age of the squad again I reckon.
 

Gordon S

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,524
It's difficult to compare, but this is down there.

I have fond memories of us tearing Bayer Leverkusen apart in the CL. We scored 9 friggin goals against them in the group stage. With Moyes in charge!


Just can't picture us tearing anyone apart these days.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
It's difficult to compare, but this is down there.

I have fond memories of us tearing Bayer Leverkusen apart in the CL. We scored 9 friggin goals against them in the group stage. With Moyes in charge!


Just can't picture us tearing anyone apart these days.
Then came the Fulham game. Yes the only thing we can tear now is everyone's hair.
 

tony54

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 9, 2016
Messages
614
Location
spain
The worst thing is that I've stopped caring, totally numb.
Me too. I have been decorating but forgot the game was on. that's how much my interest is waining. I would have to go far out of my way to watch such
pathetic football and players. I dont think there is any team in the UK leagues that play as naff as us.
I read the only thing British about our club is the football pitch,.all the rest is foreign owned, and that to me is half the problem
 

Cait Sith

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
1,379
Of course worse. Way worse. Mourinho has spent close to half a billion and he's serving up a negative goal difference almost halfway through the season, worse than Everton or Leicester.

Won't dig up my old posts as it's pointless now but I was telling you that this was going to happen before he was appointed when most people here thought they finally got the "best manager in the world". It happened all the time throughout his career but people here were like: "Madrid and Chelsea are joke clubs, will be different here and he won the CL with Porto." :rolleyes:
 

Trophy Room

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Messages
3,874
Location
Manchester
Me too. I have been decorating but forgot the game was on. that's how much my interest is waining. I would have to go far out of my way to watch such
pathetic football and players. I dont think there is any team in the UK leagues that play as naff as us.
I read the only thing British about our club is the football pitch,.all the rest is foreign owned, and that to me is half the problem
I agree, we have lost our identity and therefore the connection with the fans. Amongst so called big clubs, we are currently irrelevant.
 

WR10

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
5,644
Location
Dream
The only thing Mourinho is better than any other coach at is defensive game. We have conceded more goals than any other top 15 team in the PL.

Game over mate