Are the premier league sides ahead of the rest of Europe these days

Posh Red

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
3,438
Location
Peterborough, England
Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that the premier league sides are, on average, better than their European equivalents these days.

i know it sounds a bit knee-jerk after the City game, but if I’m honest I was quite shocked by the difference in quality between the runner up in the the premier league, vs the Spanish champions.

People say football is cyclical. Are we currently entering an era of British dominance in the premier league, involving United, City, Chelsea and Liverpool competing for major European honours regularly, or am I chatting complete shite and reading too much into previous results?
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
16,977
It seems to be heading that way, but Liverpool got knocked out by Atletico(who were 7th I think at the time).

And we just saw Chelsea get hammered over 2 legs by Bayern.

I don't see it being comparable to 2007-2009 as of yet when Premier League teams were clearly Europe's elite.

Let's see how next season unfolds. Chelsea should be stronger and we should fare way better than Tottenham did this past season.
 

Posh Red

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
3,438
Location
Peterborough, England
It seems to be heading that way, but Liverpool got knocked out by Atletico(who were 7th I think at the time).

And we just saw Chelsea get hammered over 2 legs by Bayern.

I don't see it being comparable to 2007-2009 as of yet when Premier League teams were clearly Europe's elite.

Let's see how next season unfolds. Chelsea should be stronger and we should fare way better than Tottenham did this past season.
Yeah fair points. Bayern still look as good as any side out there. I guess this is a symptom of the end of the MessiRonaldo era, where I am used to those sides always being in the mix for every big trophy. It seems to me that both of those teams have a huge job to bring themselves up to scratch.
 

Shiva87

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,852
Location
Mumbai, India
Not really. This is very knee jerk. City are perhaps one of the best squads in the world with a top manager. They turned it up against Madrid, and the only team that can really compete with them in this form is Bayern.

Liverpool (despite their result this season) aren't as dominating in style of play like City. Therefore, despite how good they are teams will always have a chance to win against them or look good. The problem with City's style of play is that when they do play well, they can make any team look bang average.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
16,977
Not really. This is very knee jerk. City are perhaps one of the best squads in the world with a top manager. They turned it up against Madrid, and the only team that can really compete with them in this form is Bayern.

Liverpool (despite their result this season) aren't as dominating in style of play like City. Therefore, despite how good they are teams will always have a chance to win against them or look good. The problem with City's style of play is that when they do play well, they can make any team look bang average.
I mean they've had more chances to win vs Pep's City than Klopp's Liverpool in the CL thus far.

You can't make the final every season.
 

Infordin

Full Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2016
Messages
3,897
Supports
Barcelona
Look at the way Bayern lubricated Chelsea and Tottenham clubs this season

10-3 on aggregate against Spurs
7-1 on aggregate against Chelsea

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure that Bayern was far more dominant against these London clubs than either Man City or Liverpool have been this season.

The Spanish giants are going through a rebuilding phase right now.
 

Beans

Full Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,512
Location
Midwest, USA
Supports
Neutral
I think the average EPL team is able to spend more money than their counterpart in the other leagues, especially at the bottom of the table, thanks to the revenue sharing.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
95,336
Location
india
This season Bayern appear to be the best side in Europe. Although Quarters onwards can be a different story.
 

berbatrick

Renaissance Man
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
21,539
Real and Barca seem to be in decline, while Liverpool and City are very good. Not sure if there's much to say beyond that. Juve, Real, Barca, PSG and Bayern would be favourites against any other English side, Atletico, Napoli, Dortmund and Inter would be 50-50. Not seen enough of Atalanta against top teams to say.

It was different in 2006-09, when United/Chelsea against a random European team usually meant a win, and this was often the case for Liverpool and Arsenal too. This was the time when the big 4 was settled.
The big teams in Europe at that time were Barca (2*CL, 2*SF), United (1*CL, 1*F, 1*SF), Chelsea (1*F, 2*SF), Liverpool (1*F, 1*SF), Arsenal (1*F, 1*SF). Milan (2007 winners) appeared once at the top end of the competition but were inconsistent, Juve were fighting up from Serie B, Real never crossed the last 16, and Atletico, PSG and Dortmund were nobody.
 
Last edited:

Ivor Ballokov

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
Messages
11,758
Location
@arrowsleeper
1/8 of the teams left in the CL
2/8 of the teams left in the EL

I think it's a little bit premature to be saying the league is ahead. I think there are some signs the Spanish giants aren't what they were and a rebuild is needed, Liverpool and City will be among the favourites next year and Chelsea are looking like they will be spending a fortune so should be looking to improve on this year. Of course we all hope our rebuild continues heading in the right direction but I doubt many see us realistically challenging for the trophy.

Tottenham's squad plus a proven manager in the competition will probably see Spurs among the favourites for the EL, Arsenal are showing improvement but still some work to be done on a seemingly tight budget but could go deep.

So yeah, a bit premature, but I think the next few years could be quite fruitful for English teams.
 

ATXRedDevil

Full Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
1,051
Location
The Live Music Capital of the World
Real and Barca seem to be in decline, while Liverpool and City are very good. Not sure if there's much to say beyond that. Juve, Real, Barca, PSG and Bayern would be favourites against any other English side, Atletico, Napoli, Dortmund and Inter would be 50-50. Not seen enough of Atalanta against top teams to say.

It was different in 2006-09, when United/Chelsea against a random European team usually meant a win, and this was often the case for Liverpool and Arsenal too. This was the time when the big 4 was settled.
The big teams in Europe at that time were Barca (2*CL, 2*SF), United (1*CL, 1*F, 1*SF), Chelsea (1*F, 2*SF), Liverpool (1*F, 1*SF), Arsenal (1*F, 1*SF). Milan (2007 winners) appeared once at the top end of the competition but were inconsistent, Juve were fighting up from Serie B, Real never crossed the last 16, and Atletico, PSG and Dortmund were nobody.
It was really a five season stretch of English dominance and Milan was not all that inconsistent. If you go back to 04-05, you tag on another SF for Chelsea, a F for Milan and a title for Liverpool. So in five seasons:
Barca 2 CL 1 SF
United, Liverpool and Milan all 1 CL 1 F 1 SF
Chelsea 1 F 3 SF
Arsenal 1 F 1 SF

The only semi finalists in those 5 consecutive seasons not one the premier league top 4, Barcelona or Milan were PSV and Villarreal once each. Crazy.
 

kaiser1

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
1,950
Supports
Bayern Munich
Strange thread

Chelsea crashed out losing home and away to Bayern 7-1 aggregate
Spurs crashed out losing home and away to Leipzig 4-0 aggregate
Liverpool runaway EPL champions crashed out losing home and away to one of the worst Atletico sides in recent history

Now we have a thread asking if EPL is ahead of the rest of Europe?

You tell from the results
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude

Denis' cuff

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
7,769
Location
here
Strange thread

Chelsea crashed out losing home and away to Bayern 7-1 aggregate
Spurs crashed out losing home and away to Leipzig 4-0 aggregate
Liverpool runaway EPL champions crashed out losing home and away to one of the worst Atletico sides in recent history

Now we have a thread asking if EPL is ahead of the rest of Europe?

You tell from the results

Cherry picking a bit there, pal

Bayern = perennial Champions By a distance in a mediocre league

chelsea = transitional after a transfer suspension

spurs = crap

City definitely capable of winning this and they’re a distinct 2nd best in PL
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,464
It’s actually very wide open this year. There’s some standout clubs from certain leagues but I wouldn’t say one league in particular has outright dominance over the other... for example Leipzig were fortunate to play a Spurs side in utter disarray.

I’d say the overall standard across Europe has dropped, a lot of teams seem in transition and whilst for example Bayern seem to be on the up.. they’re not as strong as their side of the 2010’s (but probably strong enough to win this season). Football is in flux at the moment.

Madrid and Barca definitely not as good as they once were. City coming to the end of a cycle. PSG are on the precipice (can they keep Mbappe and Neymar?), Liverpool don’t look as dynamic, Atletico likewise and Juve look like they’re need of a rebuild. So overall it’s a free for all which is tough to call.

Madrid and Barca would beat United and Chelsea. I think Italian league is probably the weakest right now out of the traditional big leagues and then I’d have German, English and Spanish ahead of the French (but PSG could best anyone on their day if they click).
 

InterFan1998

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
253
Supports
Internazionale
Cherry picking a bit there, pal

Bayern = perennial Champions By a distance in a mediocre league

chelsea = transitional after a transfer suspension

spurs = crap

City definitely capable of winning this and they’re a distinct 2nd best in PL
Not sure he is cherry picking though. The thread said English sides so all of those teams are fair game. Unless the thread is supposed to be asking whether Man City is ahead if the rest of the teams?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude

Blackwidow

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
7,746
Cherry picking a bit there, pal

Bayern = perennial Champions By a distance in a mediocre league
It is only a mediocre league because Bayern is always winning. Liverpool and City are right now ahead of Dortmund, Leipzig etc. regarding quality - but I do not really see that with the EPL teams following them. And I do not really think you really can judge that from a knockout match - as the leagues differ in style and what works against one team does not work against others.

Teams that have problems with being pressed would have really problems in the Bundesliga.

Barca and Real did not look good all season long.
 

norm87cro

New Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,782
Location
Split, HR
Did you see what Bayern did to Chelsea? No, apart from City and Liverpool not really. And we can also argue that this City thing has an expiration date. Barca are an old side but are still class. Our CL journey last year saw us outclassed against PSG and Juventus as well aldo we pulled a smash and grab against both. I guess it will be interesting to see where Wolves stand in comparison to Sevilla as well.
 

E-mal

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
3,022
If Leipzig were to play Spurs now with all their fit players available, I doubt they'd go through and the Liverpool-ATM game was just a freak result, Liverpool should have won that by a clear margin. But all those ifs are not important though.

I am not sure English teams are that better than their counterparts in Europe but I believe the era where they completely flop is long gone. They will be in the quarters and semis far more consistently from this point onward.
 

Classical Mechanic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
35,216
Location
xG Zombie Nation
On average it’s the best at the moment. Not streets ahead though. Two years leading the coefficients and the PL was leading the coefficients before the lockdown. I think it would still be leading the coefficient if UEFA continued updating it as I think the PL has 3 clubs left in along with Germany and Spain.

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2020

Last season was pretty dominant by the English sides with all 4 finalists from the PL. The first time all 4 have been from the same league.

This year has been transitional with Chelsea and United going through changes and Spurs dropping off completely so performances haven’t been as good. I don’t think you can read too much into Liverpool’s loss as they’d been on an incredible run in the competition and things like that have to end somehow.

Last season was a high water mark for the English sides so you’d expect some drop off. Id expect the qualifiers this season to be stronger in the competitions next year.
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
22,414
Location
Inside right
Proof is in the pudding: until results across the board dramatically improve, there's no grounds to state the PL is back to being anything of note in the latter stages of the CL. A team, or even two doing well is not representative of a whole league when the top ones are getting four and five slots to compete with.
 

Lay

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
19,790
Location
England
Cherry picking a bit there, pal

Bayern = perennial Champions By a distance in a mediocre league

chelsea = transitional after a transfer suspension

spurs = crap

City definitely capable of winning this and they’re a distinct 2nd best in PL
How’s that cherry picking. The thread clearly asks are English clubs better than the other European teams and then a poster shows that no, they’re not. City are probably one of the best in Europe but that doesn’t mean all English clubs are.
 

Markolan

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
842
Location
Italy
Supports
AC Milan
This season? Not really, If we look at the UCL results against teams from top 4 leagues:

- Liverpool v Napoli 0-2 1-1, v Atletico 0-1 2-3

- M. City v Atalanta 5-1 1-1, v Real Madrid 2-1 2 -1

- Chelsea v Valencia 0-1 2-2, v Bayern 0-3 1-4

- Tottenham v Bayern 2-7 1-3, v Leipzig 0-1 0-3

Only Manchester City did well, the other three english teams got 0 wins, 10 losses and 2 draws..

Country ranking updated: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/crank2020.html
England is still first but Spain and Germany are there and the number of the clubs qualified for the QF is similar (3/7 3/7 3/7 2/7 2/6)
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
33,052
Bar the mistakes in defence Madrid actually surprised me against City as to how good they were the other night
Every time I've watched Bayern this season they've looked by far the best team in the world
Don't forget despite their league campaigns over the last 2 seasons Barca still smashed Liverpool 3-0 (should have been 4-0 and tie done last season)

So no I don't think the PL are that far ahead at all
 

dove

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
7,899
Not really. Spurs and Chelsea were absolutely hammered by German teams, Liverpool lost against Atletico who are really struggling this season, Arsenal lost against Olympiacos. Other teams are not so good either and knowing how much money PL clubs spend I think the quality is quite shocking TBF.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
21,206
Its ahead, just, but the makeup of the league is different.

A couple of things dont change much:

There are more top PL clubs than there are from any other single league, usually 3 or 4 capable of going deep into the knockouts. Spain has 2 or 3, the rest 1, if that. This helps our coefficient out.

The overall competition faced is higher. Your average Eintracht Frankfurt or Osasuna would be in a relegation battle in no time in the PL, but a Burnley would have little trouble in Germany or Spain.


What is different is how competitive our top clubs are vs other top clubs. Right now, not very, but with the money in England it cant be long until they are. I think the players/teams required to win the league are very different to those required to win in Europe and it means with any given budget, PL teams have to focus on one or the other moreso than European counterparts.
 

Castia

Full Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
18,284
Strange thread

Chelsea crashed out losing home and away to Bayern 7-1 aggregate
Spurs crashed out losing home and away to Leipzig 4-0 aggregate
Liverpool runaway EPL champions crashed out losing home and away to one of the worst Atletico sides in recent history

Now we have a thread asking if EPL is ahead of the rest of Europe?

You tell from the results
Guess the bottom line is what counts though. Liverpool been in the last 2 finals winning one of them, Spurs been in recent final too. If city get to the final this year that’s 3 separate English teams in as many years.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,354
Location
France
Ligue 1 is ahead of the curve, two clubs in the quarterfinals. :D
 

Clermontois

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
311
Supports
France
Massive no but Italian clubs are getting weaker so is there league.

Next season Real Madrid after a few signings will most likely vanquish the same Man City side in the group stages.

That is the way football goes, in cycles.
 
Last edited:

gorky_utd

Full Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
1,925
Location
India
Both city and Liverpool are now comfortably among Europe's elite. Us and chelsea are simply far behind but probably expected from teams that finish 3rd and 4th in their league. However, the total Spanish domination is over and top English sides are now capable of beating their European counterparts without a freak result.
 

Mb194dc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
4,595
Supports
Chelsea
No, only two world class sides in the premier league, 4 to 6 decent teams who are on par with similar position sides in Germany, Spain and Italy, Juventus and PSG are on similar level to our top two.

Other 12 teams in the premier league are dross.
 

Baneofthegame

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2019
Messages
2,995
Massive no but Italian clubs are getting weaker so is there league.

Next season Real Madrid after a few signings will most likely vanquish the same Man City side in the group stages.

That is the way football goes, in cycles.
While I agree it goes in cycles, City are probably going to reinforce with another 2/3 players on top of their 2 purchases already.

Madrid won’t put up the cash for Havertz, so will be interested to see who they reinforce with.
 

Castia

Full Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
18,284
No, only two world class sides in the premier league, 4 to 6 decent teams who are on par with similar position sides in Germany, Spain and Italy, Juventus and PSG are on similar level to our top two.

Other 12 teams in the premier league are dross.
Completely disagree with this. The bottom 12 sides in the PL are levels ahead of those bottom 12 sides in Germany, Spain and Italy it’s not even close. Spurs this season are shit but was in the CL final last year, There’s a good chance City make the final meaning 3 separate English teams in as many years.

No league ever had 4/5 world class teams I don’t know what you’re expecting.
 

Mark_Barca

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
2,268
Supports
Barcelona
The overall competition faced is higher. Your average Eintracht Frankfurt or Osasuna would be in a relegation battle in no time in the PL, but a Burnley would have little trouble in Germany or Spain.
Might be the worst post Ive ever read.

The claim sides like Brighton, Norwich, Newcastle etc are well ahead of sides in other leagues is utter nonsense. The lower sides in England are horrific.
 

Feed Me

I'm hungry
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
29,319
Location
Midlands, UK
Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that the premier league sides are, on average, better than their European equivalents these days.

i know it sounds a bit knee-jerk after the City game, but if I’m honest I was quite shocked by the difference in quality between the runner up in the the premier league, vs the Spanish champions.

People say football is cyclical. Are we currently entering an era of British dominance in the premier league, involving United, City, Chelsea and Liverpool competing for major European honours regularly, or am I chatting complete shite and reading too much into previous results?
Looking at how Bayern dismantled the likes of Spurs and Chelsea, with Atletico doing a job on Liverpool earlier in the season, I would say no.

I think Barcelona and Real Madrid are currently on a downturn though which is maybe distorting the overall picture.
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
11,607
Location
London
People who say Juventus are on the same level as our top 2, must not have watched Juventus much this season. That’s the only team who has consistently performed well out of Italy in recent years and they’ve been pretty poor (by their high standards) this year.

Bayern on the other hand, I completely agree with. They are at least on par, if not better, than our top 2 this season.