I dont remember very well, but I dont think anyone was suggesting Mourinho should be sacked in his first season at United. Ole has had 1 season now, it was after 2 or 3 seasons that people were saying Mourinho has to go
Are the pundits being kinder to Ole than Jose?
- Thread starter United Hobbit
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Maybe... or maybe it's just a necessary evil to get rid of what's weighing down the club. I don't presume to know the answer, you can feel free to do so.
Btw, you said "In Cardiff too he brought in a bunch of players he'd had good relations with in the past". That sentence seems to suggest that that's what he's done with United, which is patently not the case. Feel free to modify your statement.
Yes.
I need to show this post to some of my anti-Jose friends, sums it up perfectly!
Yes they are. Criticizing Mourinho is fine. He's the evil figure for the media because of how they treated them in pressers and everyone enjoy slaughtering him. Fans too enjoy watching the media slaughtering him. Ole is a an ex teammate of most United pundit and is a "nice" guy, hence they are afraid to over criticize him. They are going soft on him and hence are shifting their opinions and contradicting themselves.
Same thing happened for LVG as much as Mourinho. Jus look at Scholes who took every chance to slaughter Mourinho and LvG during their reign and now he's doing nothing, and the only time he talked he said Ole needs 2-3 years to build a squad capable of finishing top 4.
Like seriously? Are you that afraid of criticizing an ex teammate while you had no problem slaughtering foreign managers previously?
Same thing happened for LVG as much as Mourinho. Jus look at Scholes who took every chance to slaughter Mourinho and LvG during their reign and now he's doing nothing, and the only time he talked he said Ole needs 2-3 years to build a squad capable of finishing top 4.
Like seriously? Are you that afraid of criticizing an ex teammate while you had no problem slaughtering foreign managers previously?Not kinder, but I think he's being judged in a different context.
- He's a club legend, so that counts for something.
- The football played right after his appointment was the best we'd seen since SAF. Whether or not it was down to him is another discussion.
- He has a vision that the fans can identify with and get behind. Signings made under him look good, though clearly not enough.
- The most important reason he's criticized less than previous managers (who shoulderedthe blame for all the shortcomings during their time), is that pundits and fans have gradually realized how much the board has failed the team and managers, past and present.
I struggle to believe that football pundits refuse to berate Ole simply because he is a nice guy. Perhaps they have considered the circumstances of his situation - the lack of squad depth in combination with an injury crisis that has affected the most influential members of that squad - and made allowances accordingly.
Much of our fanbase share a similar line of thinking and have adjusted their expectations too. Jose Mourinho fans seem incapable of this however and look to put the knife in Ole at every given opportunity.
Thinking long term is of course a virtue but you won't make the long run if you fall face first and break your skull during the very first step - which is what's currently happening here. He won't make it to perfection most likely - unless he turns this around completely during the next two months - so I fear that decision to settle with what we currently have will haunt him for the rest of his life. And yeah strictly speaking I may have gone a "too" too far in that sentence
REspekt!
True enough.
Yeah, I think it's pretty selfless what Ole's doing. I liken it to us having broken our legs when Fergie left, and then it fused together crookedly... Ole's now charged with the unpleasant task of re-breaking and re-setting the legs, and getting criticised for our gait being fecked up and our inability to run. Not a lot of managers would be more concerned with the club long term than their own survival.Thinking long term is of course a virtue but you won't make the long run if you fall face first and break your skull during the very first step - which is what's currently happening here. He won't make it to perfection most likely - unless he turns this around completely during the next two months - so I fear that decision to settle with what we currently have will haunt him for the rest of his life. And yeah strictly speaking I may have gone a "too" too far in that sentence
I'm still Ole in, but I'm well open to the possibility that I am being absolutely blinkered. I really hope getting back Shaw, Martial, Pogba, AWB, etc. will see us picking up points more regularly again.
I really hope so too because based on what I've seen so far this season I'm feeling quite confident we're just two-three decent signings away from being able to compete for a top-four again - just like I did when the transfer window closed (this is pretty much the exact scenario myself and so many others dreaded) - and it would be heartbreaking seeing this project laid to waste right before those sorely needed reinforcements arrived simply because Ole is too "sensible" for his own good. He doesn't deserve that - his intentions for making a mess of things were noble enough. And don't get me wrong here - few people in here - if any - have gone further than me defending Solskjaer from his harshest (and way over-the-top) haters - I see the improvements we've made under him as well not just his blunders - but like I said and I cannot stress this enough - moderation is never a vice not even when it comes to idealism and playing nice - as excess of anything can easily lead to one's demise.
You don't have to go full Mourinho to accept reality for what it is and deploy the necessary level of pragmatism - you just have to be brave enough to improvise and adapt in accordance to whatever shitstorm you're currently experiencing
Yes they are being kinder on him because it's generally acknowledged that we've ripped it up and started again.
Even Gary (nothing's ever the managers fault) Neville seems to spend most of the games he commentates on criticising general aspects of our set up, but obviously come full time he needs to do another dramatic offload and just blames everyone else. I think by the time Ole is sacked the pitch of Neville's voice will be audible only to dogs.
Even Gary (nothing's ever the managers fault) Neville seems to spend most of the games he commentates on criticising general aspects of our set up, but obviously come full time he needs to do another dramatic offload and just blames everyone else. I think by the time Ole is sacked the pitch of Neville's voice will be audible only to dogs.
Started what exactly?
Ex United player pundits and friends who are influenced by them are insulting the intelligence of viewers with the way they defend Ole, especially G Neville.
Funnily enough it’s actually the ex Liverpool players pundits who are saying Ole is out of his depth. All want to be respectful so won’t slate him badly or as honestly as should be done, but Jamie Redknapp pretty much said Ole is crap, as has Souness, and Jamie Charagher wrote a piece acknowledging that while the board are crap that doesn’t meat that Ole is the right manager.
Funnily enough it’s actually the ex Liverpool players pundits who are saying Ole is out of his depth. All want to be respectful so won’t slate him badly or as honestly as should be done, but Jamie Redknapp pretty much said Ole is crap, as has Souness, and Jamie Charagher wrote a piece acknowledging that while the board are crap that doesn’t meat that Ole is the right manager.
A phase of trying to find keener players that want to run for the badge etc. Whether you agree or not, I think that's one of the reasons Ole has been almost free of any criticism from major pundits thus far this season.
Best football played since SAF retired, was certain spells under LVG. First few games in second season before Shaw got injured, and the spell around the games when we beat Liverpool and City by 4 goals
Ole seems to be getting a pass because the narrative is focused on more interesting stories for now. If performances don’t improve, watch. Suddenly they’ll to a man turn on Ole. Not a lot of original thought in that lot.
They are being kinder. But that's not a bad thing. LVG and Jose took a lot of shit for stuff that most likely wasn't their fault. In the end if the squad is full of players of either little talent or who don't fit the style of play of their manager/team mates then that comes down to the man who is supposed to be building the squad, in this case Ed. Jose and LVG made many mistakes but also got slagged off a lot more than they deserved. Moyes on the other hand I will never revise my opinion, grade A chump.
Fair enough, it's subjective I suppose. I did like the beginning of that second season. It's not popular these days, but personally I like a more direct style.
True. He was also, however, let down in terms of signings.Jose was quite critical of a lot of the pundits towards the end wasn’t he?
No question they are going easier on Ole, but then a lot of them have played with him so it’s not surprising.
No question they are going easier on Ole, but then a lot of them have played with him so it’s not surprising.
Some have actually. I mean about the ex United players. They berated LVG and Jose endlessly. Yet they didn't do to Moyes and now Ole.
Honestly what had Ole ever done to think he can compete? It's not logical. It's just simply emotions.
Fergie had Herrera all lined up and he rejected him because he'd never seen him play and he thought he could get Fabregas or someone, after which we ended up going back in for bloody Fellaini at £7m more than his release clause! And I'm pretty sure he had the opportunity to go for Thiago and delayed that one as well because he'd never seen him play! A1 cretin.
Only Gary Neville
I don’t recall Mourinhos first season consisting of us being in the bottom half of the Premier League and visibly looking clueless and out of his depth every week either, a striker and 2 midfielders light of what we should have.
We finished 6th. Ole is capable of doing that from here
And won a major trophy. Let’s see if Ole can emulate.
I'd rather we get rid, but the point is that I dont think people are being nicer to Ole than Mourinho.
the fans are a lot worse to Ole than they were towards Mourinho - the pundits aren't.
True - but Moyes pretty much said what everyone else is saying - Woodward sabotaged him by not getting any of the players he wanted. Fellaini was at best a back-up plan. I am not saying Moyes didn't deserve to go (he did) - but it probably would have been different if we had Gill and not Woodward.
The media are on the whole. For example, Sky Sports go quite easy on him whereas in contrast they crucified Mourinho every week.
Not in the first season, that was still the "Genius" era. That happened only last season where he was about to get fired
Correct, and rightly so. Ole is in his 2nd season and has seen his teams’ form dramatically take a nosedive and he doesn’t seem to know how to deal with it.
Mourinho was winning trophies in his 2nd season.
No, he's had 1 season at this point and less than half a season with his own players instead of dealing with Mourinho's mess
Mourinho won two trophies in his first season.
What is Mourinho’s mess?
Sanchez? Fair enough.
Lukaku? Not exactly a top player and I wasn’t a fan myself but a far more consistent goalscorer than Rashford.
If you haven’t noticed Ole created some
mess himself, Mata and Jones were given new contracts under his regime, why? what for? both are miles more “deadwood” than Smalling or Fellaini.
Sold Fellaini who was an actually effective option to have from the bench, yet has given the painfully average Pereira a new contract.
The team looks more under coached and has less character the longer Ole has been here.
Not surprising. But very unprofessional. They are paid to give their honest unbiased opinions.. I find it hard to believe that the United cartel of pundits have not noticed any of the things that people on the Cafe have or that their Liverpool cartel of pundits have also seen.
Anyone remember how hard the media and pundits were going on Sarri last year simply because they disagreed with the way he used Kante, but Chelsea still finished 3rd and won the Europa Cup.
I agree yeah, the pundits have very little interest in objectivity. United could go down to 16th place and stay there and I guarantee they'll still be saying Ole needs time to rebuild. It's comedic at this point. When Van Gaal was struggling, they were absolutely ruthless. Not just the pundits but the press. Even I felt sorry for him. They're deeply biased.
Of course they are biased. In hindsight I think LVG should not have been sacked for winning the FA Cup even though he missed out on the CL spot.
But is transfers were as bizarre as ever.
But is transfers were as bizarre as ever.
I still feel that Ole hasn't got a fair deal by not getting a replacement for both Herrera and Pogba. But I don't care who the manager is. If he is not doing his job Right he should Go.
Having said that, I would like to think that Ole would have done much better with a striker and a top midfielder in the team.