Are there any City fans that accept it’s tainted?

OldSchoolManc

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It can’t all be sunsheeeeine and glory can it?
There’s no happiness in knowing that it’s all been fraudulent and cheated for?
City could have done it gradually and become a part of the elite, but instead they chose to piss all over tradition and sod the fact that all other teams have to abide by rules.
So are there any City fans that feel a bit wary of it all?
Guilty maybe?
Worried that the coked up situation is doing more harm than good?
 
I dont think they will. Just like Barcelona they will be celebrating their achievments forever whilst everyone idolizes all their players as these goats, even if they cheated their way up there.
 
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OldSchoolManc said:
It can’t all be sunsheeeeine and glory can it?
There’s no happiness in knowing that it’s all been fraudulent and cheated for?
City could have done it gradually and become a part of the elite, but instead they chose to piss all over tradition and sod the fact that all other teams have to abide by rules.
So are there any City fans that feel a bit wary of it all?
Guilty maybe?
Worried that the coked up situation is doing more harm than good?
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No they couldn't. Name me one club that has. There is simply no way for a historically small club to rise to the top of modern football without this type of spending.

I don't want to defend City but the problem is the sport's broken structure. We really need to move away from this pointless tribalism (especially when we could soon be financially doped as well).
 
If you haven't been caught and found guilty in court of law then you have not cheated :rolleyes: 115
 
VP said:
No they couldn't. Name me one club that has. There is simply no way for a historically small club to rise to the top of modern football without this type of spending.

I don't want to defend City but the problem is the sport's broken structure. We really need to move away from this pointless tribalism (especially when we could soon be financially doped as well).
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You are correct in terms of history. It did Blackburn no favours but for a few glory years.
City are heading the same way but may get tarred with a horrible brush that no club wants.
Football IS tribalism, like it or not.
But let’s at least have a level playing field.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
But they have been caught and the only thing stopping any action is even more money being paid to lawyers to delay proceedings
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Man City disputes/challenges PL 115 charges and launch legal fight against PL. I can only see one winner here as I don't think PL have the balls or means to take on Abu Dhabi, UAE.

Hence, they will be found not guilt and not cheated. That's how the world works. 115
 
Who bloody cares ? They are a nothing club, always were, always will be Shitty.
 
Well seriously nothing tainted about their achievement. They spent huge for years and against rules too to get those money through shady sponsors. Yet they won their maiden cl trophy just this year.

But they achieved the treble through sporting excellence not just because throwing out money. If that's the case we actually won the treble this season by spending some 600 mn.

The players did work hard to achieve that milestone. Feel hard to simply say they were tainted. That's not fair too. They deserved it for playing excellent football eliminating Bayern,real on their way to win the big ears.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
It can’t all be sunsheeeeine and glory can it?
There’s no happiness in knowing that it’s all been fraudulent and cheated for?
City could have done it gradually and become a part of the elite, but instead they chose to piss all over tradition and sod the fact that all other teams have to abide by rules.
So are there any City fans that feel a bit wary of it all?
Guilty maybe?
Worried that the coked up situation is doing more harm than good?
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So cringe, money is apart of football, they have been exceptional. Madrid brought superstars year after year after year. Having money is great but spending it wisely and still having the togetherness is a huge achievement, he is the GOAT.
 
Eh, these "tainted" remarks will ultimately be ignored and forgotten with time. It's mostly a thing that comes from supporters of other clubs - and from what I've seen - largely United fans.
 
The only City fans who'll accept that the achievement is tainted,
are the ones who lost most/all of their affiliation with their club once the takeover was complete in 2008 or whenever it was.
All those who stayed on board ever since will have no problems with anything they've done after that,

In the case of a Qatari acquisition of Man United,
I believe most fans will find their mental gymnastics to normalize it in their minds ["City and Newcastle already done it and ruined the game, might as well join them and play on the same field"]. Simply because it's nigh on impossible to stop supporting a club that's been such an important thing in our lives for however many years/generations even.

And so, most fans will probably still celebrate whichever things we may win under such ownership [You hardly give a feck about it being tainted in the eyes of other people, if you just won a CL]
 
Rajiztar said:
Well seriously nothing tainted about their achievement. They spent huge for years and against rules too to get those money through shady sponsors. Yet they won their maiden cl trophy just this year.

But they achieved the treble through sporting excellence not just because throwing out money. If that's the case we actually won the treble this season by spending some 600 mn.

The players did work hard to achieve that milestone. Feel hard to simply say they were tainted. That's not fair too. They deserved it for playing excellent football eliminating Bayern,real on their way to win the big ears.
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They've got a great manager and team but do you think they'd have either if they didn't cheat the FFP system for years? It's like saying Lance Armstrong just rode his bike faster than everyone else so it doesn't matter that he was doping for years
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Man City disputes/challenges PL 115 charges and launch legal fight against PL. I can only see one winner here as I don't think PL have the balls or means to take on Abu Dhabi, UAE.

Hence, they will be found not guilt and not cheated. That's how the world works. 115
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If that was true they'd never have bothered charging them in the first place.
 
Of course there are.

A lot of the older generation just simply stopped supporting City. Either immediately after the takeover or in the subsequent years because the team changed so much.

Then there’s the younger fans who obviously get wound up by it. Ffs they had a banner of a lawyer hung at their game this year.
 
ScholesyTheWise said:
The only City fans who'll accept that the achievement is tainted,
are the ones who lost most/all of their affiliation with their club once the takeover was complete in 2008 or whenever it was.
All those who stayed on board ever since will have no problems with anything they've done after that,

In the case of a Qatari acquisition of Man United,
I believe most fans will find their mental gymnastics to normalize it in their minds ["City and Newcastle already done it and ruined the game, might as well join them and play on the same field"]. Simply because it's nigh on impossible to stop supporting a club that's been such an important thing in our lives for however many years/generations even.

And so, most fans will probably still celebrate whichever things we may win under such ownership [You hardly give a feck about it being tainted in the eyes of other people, if you just won a CL]
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People keep mixing up financial doping with cheating.
The two are separate.
If United were taken over by the Qataris it wouldn't mean we were cheating and would rack up 115 charges.
 
Sandikan said:
People keep mixing up financial doping with cheating.
The two are separate.
If United were taken over by the Qataris it wouldn't mean we were cheating and would rack up 115 charges.
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You're right that they're separate things,
but I believe it's almost a certainty that the two would occur if we're bought by them.

Middle Eastern states don't buy football clubs to abide by the rules.
It's only a question of how well you manage to hide your wrongdoings.

* And as an aside,
for me, to be able to have a state behind me and buy whoever I want with zero consequences on my budget etc,
will be tainting my achievements enough, even without any sort of cheating coming to light.
But that's highly subjective.
 
If we’re taken over by Qatar, I don’t think they would need to cheat the books to make us successful. Our name already attracts sponsors and our income is high. Who the hell was gonna give city all that money if not etihad? They did all that financial doping to create the income that their name wouldn’t generate.
Honestly, to me they dont matter. If it was united who won a treble last night, the media coverage would by 100 times more.
 
kafta said:
If we’re taken over by Qatar, I don’t think they would need to cheat the books to make us successful. Our name already attracts sponsors and our income is high. Who the hell was gonna give city all that money if not etihad? They did all that financial doping to create the income that their name wouldn’t generate.
Honestly, to me they dont matter. If it was united who won a treble last night, the media coverage would by 100 times more.
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I don't trust them one bit to not try and bend rules where they can.
Yeah, we're a behemoth of a brand on our own so we won't need such crazy money injections like City or Paris did,
but for us to sign Mbappe (as an example), or the next big thing that every club in the world would sell a kidney for...

what's to say that beyond paying this player obscene amounts over and under the table,
while also giving stupid amounts to their agent,

the Qatari's won't seal the deal by handing that player's father, brother, whatever, some fictional executive role in a made-up middle eastern corporation?
A la Platini and his son, if I'm not mistaken?

I just can't see these things not happening.
 
Tainted, nobody will car in 5 tears time, they won it, deal with it, it was an eventuality not a singularity.
 
This thread reeks of desperation. To put it simply, historically many many clubs have cheated. Take for example the match fixing in Italy and the clubs like Juve. They are PROVEN cheats, yet they are an elite club. No one has a problem with that. Take the Spanish clubs such as Real and Barca. They are bankrolled by state owned banks, layering/ restructuring/ writing off debts in millions over the years. They have illegally tapped up players from other teams and illegally publicly pursued players because they are above the law. But yet they are elite clubs. Juve had titles taken away innit? Did it affect their status? They just came back and won more. Take away a couple of titles from City. They will come back and win 5 more in the next ten years. As much as we would like, no one cares about asterisks and special mentions. At least the history book of football does not.
 
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Is it going to comfort you if a few City fans, like that Jonno guy on Rawk, say the treble is tainted and they aren't celebrating it?

Plenty of our own fans are salivating over the prospect of Qatari petrodollars and drawing up their fantasy shopping lists.
 
RedBanker said:
This thread reeks of desperation. To put it simply, historically many many clubs have cheated. Take for example the match fixing in Italy and the clubs like Juve. They are PROVEN cheats, yet they are an elite club. No one has a problem with that. Take the Spanish clubs such as Real and Barca. They are bankrolled by state owned banks, layering/ restructuring/ writing off debts in millions over the years. They have illegally tapped up players from other teams and illegally publicly pursued players because they are above the law. But yet they are elite clubs. Juve had titles taken away innit? Did it affect their status? They just came back and won more. Take away a couple of titles from City. They will come back and win 5 more in the next ten years. As much as we would like, no one cares about asterisks and special mentions. At least the history book of football does not.
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Yes. United fans (and to a lesser extent, Pool and Arsenal fans) are just late to join the party.

It's been that way for fans of Italian, French, and Spanish teams for years and years.

It was easy to laugh off PSG and put asterisks next to their trophies when it was far from home.
But then with City, no no.... this is the line being crossed.
 
VP said:
No they couldn't. Name me one club that has. There is simply no way for a historically small club to rise to the top of modern football without this type of spending.

I don't want to defend City but the problem is the sport's broken structure. We really need to move away from this pointless tribalism (especially when we could soon be financially doped as well).
Click to expand...

Good post. FFP has basically been designed to protect the big clubs, ensuring that they don’t need to worry about external resources pushing smaller clubs into competition with them.

The most success you can have by building it gradually is what West Ham had the other day. They even designed a separate competition for all the poorer leagues and clubs so that they don’t muddle the pinnacle of football elite that is CL.
 
The reason small clubs can’t get near the top is because of teams like Chelsea and Man City! This narrative that FFP is there to help smaller clubs is nonsense. Maybe the ONE club that has been picked by a country randomly. However, that destroys the chances of EVERY OTHER side.

The most depressing argument in football. In a world where three trophies have been won by Man City this year, how can you possibly argue that the majority of clubs benefit from state ownership?
 
VP said:
No they couldn't. Name me one club that has. There is simply no way for a historically small club to rise to the top of modern football without this type of spending.

I don't want to defend City but the problem is the sport's broken structure. We really need to move away from this pointless tribalism (especially when we could soon be financially doped as well).
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City broke the structure themselves! They led to it being broken.

Tottenham would have leagues and FA Cups if it wasn’t for City! Maybe a few CLs. Brighton could be a CL a club this year if it wasn’t for nation states owning football.

How can you possibly look at leagues with City and PSG in and think - ah yes, smaller clubs must rejoice.
 
TsuWave said:
Eh, these "tainted" remarks will ultimately be ignored and forgotten with time. It's mostly a thing that comes from supporters of other clubs - and from what I've seen - largely United fans.
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No, maybe in England but I’ve seen plenty of similar critiques from German and Spanish fans
 
Didn't watch the game, did they boo the anthem?

I remember reading the caf years ago when the Evra/Suarez thing was going on and the quotes from the RAWK thread were a bewildering swamp of whataboutery and irrelevance but one anecdotal story really stuck with me. About a Liverpool supporter having a Luis Suarez tablecloth at Christmas dinner at which his Evertoninan family members didn't comment on, thus proving Suarez's innocence.

Now, the argument I am about to put forward has echoes of this but I am still going to put it out there :lol:

To answer the OP's question, I think there are, in a silent Tory kind of way. Half of my family are blues as are half of my friends (as in the friends I have had since being 12 years old, we rip the bleep out of each other for everything) and I have not heard a peep out of them today. Got a bit of ribbing after the FA Cup but it felt a bit forced and the UTD fans in the group, myself included, were fairly indifferent (I think this kills them as long as its genuine) but nothing so far today.

I live in SEA so it could be (with the time difference) that they're still partying, they win so often that there is no need to gloat or that it just doesn't feel that great given the circumstances surrounding their success.

You could read this and think 'they are enjoying the greatest sporting moment of their lives why would they lord it over UTD fans now?' which is a fair question (in theory) but living in Wythenshawe until my mid 20's and knowing the City fans I know very well, I was genuinely shocked to wake up to nothing this morning. This is what they have been living for! The hate runs deep, SAF really did a number on them.

The most abuse I have had is from a River Plate fan who hates UTD for reasons unclear and loves Julian Alvarez.

Full disclosure. Obviously gutted they've eventually managed to win the CL and match our treble but that's that now, can go on to do the quadruple quadruple and it wouldn't stir up too much vitriol. My biggest takeaway from the past few weeks is that quite a lot of journalists don't know what the word unprecedented means.
 
kafta said:
If we’re taken over by Qatar, I don’t think they would need to cheat the books to make us successful. Our name already attracts sponsors and our income is high. Who the hell was gonna give city all that money if not etihad? They did all that financial doping to create the income that their name wouldn’t generate.
Honestly, to me they dont matter. If it was united who won a treble last night, the media coverage would by 100 times more.
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No we don't

Our financial muscle is close to maximized under Glazer, they're a shit footballer brain but marketing wise they're good.

So no, having Qatar doesn't make us suddenly double / triple our war kitty, nor somehow having extra cash to build a stadium. Accounting wise all those Qatari wealth should be injected to the club and be labelled as obligations, or income.

Yes, we are big, but not city war kitty big. Our books is not state secret everyone can see our turnover.

So if Qatar bought us and invest heavily we'll be cooking the books as well. Let's not kid ourselves, Newcastle, PSG, City etc doesnt suddely grows money out of thin air.
 
RedBanker said:
This thread reeks of desperation. To put it simply, historically many many clubs have cheated. Take for example the match fixing in Italy and the clubs like Juve. They are PROVEN cheats, yet they are an elite club. No one has a problem with that. Take the Spanish clubs such as Real and Barca. They are bankrolled by state owned banks, layering/ restructuring/ writing off debts in millions over the years. They have illegally tapped up players from other teams and illegally publicly pursued players because they are above the law. But yet they are elite clubs. Juve had titles taken away innit? Did it affect their status? They just came back and won more. Take away a couple of titles from City. They will come back and win 5 more in the next ten years. As much as we would like, no one cares about asterisks and special mentions. At least the history book of football does not.
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None of these situations are comparable to what has happened at City and BTW Juve got appropriate punishments for their crimes, even stripped and relegated. They definitely are tainted. It will be comparable if City get relegated and stripped too :drool: however the deepest of pockets can get you really far.

What City did is unprecedented, financial doping is the most appropriate description and that will also be the context behind their success.
 
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Sky1981 said:
No we don't

Our financial muscle is close to maximized under Glazer, they're a shit footballer brain but marketing wise they're good.

So no, having Qatar doesn't make us suddenly double / triple our war kitty, nor somehow having extra cash to build a stadium. Accounting wise all those Qatari wealth should be injected to the club and be labelled as obligations, or income.

Yes, we are big, but not city war kitty big. Our books is not state secret everyone can see our turnover.

So if Qatar bought us and invest heavily we'll be cooking the books as well. Let's not kid ourselves, Newcastle, PSG, City etc doesnt suddely grows money out of thin air.
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Yes this is quite right, I don't think a lot of people who are trying to make this comparison grasp why City are considered cheats. If we had rich owners we wouldn't have to cheat by cooking finances and making up fake sponsors. We would be a better run club with all the money we earn invested back into the team and club facilities.
 
The short answer is NO. There won't be any City fans who will think this is tainted because of their FFP cheating.
Fans from other clubs will, definitely. In fact I was in my local supermarket Friday and bumped into a woman wearing a West Ham top (the morning after their Euro victory) the convo went like this, word for word.

Me: "you must be happy this morning, great win last night....I don't support West Ham, I'm a Man Utd fan, but I was happy the Hammers won, great result..."

Her: "..ah thanks very much, yeah I'm still hoarse this morning from all the shouting! It was so good though, such a great night...so you're Man Utd then? I was rooting for you on Saturday (FA Cup)...shame eh.. "

Me: "yeah I am...I know, I was hoping we'd beat them, but how can you compete with City when they have 2 world class players in every position?!"

Her: "...yeah but they have 2 world class players because they're cheating! If we overspent, West Ham would have 2 world class players in every position!"

At this point Her husband comes round the corner. Conversation carries on...

Him: "..they don't have the toothpaste love..."

Her: " ok..(points to me) we were just talking about last night...he supports Man Utd.."

Him:.."oh do ya?...I'm Spurs...season ticket holder.."

Me:.."..oh Spurs...sorry to hear that mate (we all start laughing)...no actually my brothers a season ticket holder...I bet you two have a few clashes now and then being West Ham and Spurs (laughing)..."

Him.." (laughing)..yeah we do, it's all good fun though...shame about the FA Cup Saturday for your lot, did you go?"

Her: "..yeah we were just talking about the FA Cup.."

Me: "..no I didn't go, couldn't get a ticket but yeah, bloody annoying we lost, especially to them..."

Him: "...yeah but those c*nts have been cheating for years! Look at all the FFP stuff going on, I bet nothing happens with that, they'll get away with it...absolute joke" (He actually started getting pretty animated at this point)

Her: "I just mentioned that..."

Me: "..yeah exactly...what can you do...anyway, I had better leave you to it, nice meeting you both...cheers"

Them: "you too mate...take care"

And just the other day, I get a WhatsApp from my mate, he's an Arsenal supporter.

Him:.."hello mate, how you doing? I watched the FA Cup, was really hoping your boys would beat them..."

Me: "I'm good mate, hope you are too. Yeah me and you both, but what can you do. We just don't have the squad depth that City do, they've got £70m sitting on the bench!"

Him: "I know it's ridiculous, but then if we (Arsenal) cooked the books like they've done we'd have quality sitting on the bench too. 115 FFP actions and f*ck all will get done about it..."

Me: "don't get me started on that mate.."

The moral of this story is that the first thing that came out of all their mouths seperately, when mentioning City, was the fact they all mentioned City were cheats. I didn't even have to say or goad them at all.

Every other fan of every other clubs knows it.
 
They'll be plenty just like plenty of us don't want Qatar. However just like with United the majority of fans will use excuses such as 'only caring about what's best for the club' etc.

I've always found the money side a difficult subject to solidly an opinion on. I don't see the number of foreign fans as some kind of justification for sport side investment but that's what it is these days. The alternative of a rich investor or state just feels like a consolidated version of that which is worse but not that different in effect The first isn't really open to clubs so sadly what's left is dubious state ownership.

Clubs should have a spending limit based on their league finishes, trophies etc. If a club has a great season and finishes above some big clubs they should be rewarded with a higher cap. Control it through sporting achievement and not external factors like nonsense commercials.
 
cheekybackheel said:
The short answer is NO. There won't be any City fans who will think this is tainted because of their FFP cheating.
Fans from other clubs will, definitely. In fact I was in my local supermarket Friday and bumped into a woman wearing a West Ham top (the morning after their Euro victory) the convo went like this, word for word.

Me: "you must be happy this morning, great win last night....I don't support West Ham, I'm a Man Utd fan, but I was happy the Hammers won, great result..."

Her: "..ah thanks very much, yeah I'm still hoarse this morning from all the shouting! It was so good though, such a great night...so you're Man Utd then? I was rooting for you on Saturday (FA Cup)...shame eh.. "

Me: "yeah I am...I know, I was hoping we'd beat them, but how can you compete with City when they have 2 world class players in every position?!"

Her: "...yeah but they have 2 world class players because they're cheating! If we overspent, West Ham would have 2 world class players in every position!"

At this point Her husband comes round the corner. Conversation carries on...

Him: "..they don't have the toothpaste love..."

Her: " ok..(points to me) we were just talking about last night...he supports Man Utd.."

Him:.."oh do ya?...I'm Spurs...season ticket holder.."

Me:.."..oh Spurs...sorry to hear that mate (we all start laughing)...no actually my brothers a season ticket holder...I bet you two have a few clashes now and then being West Ham and Spurs (laughing)..."

Him.." (laughing)..yeah we do, it's all good fun though...shame about the FA Cup Saturday for your lot, did you go?"

Her: "..yeah we were just talking about the FA Cup.."

Me: "..no I didn't go, couldn't get a ticket but yeah, bloody annoying we lost, especially to them..."

Him: "...yeah but those c*nts have been cheating for years! Look at all the FFP stuff going on, I bet nothing happens with that, they'll get away with it...absolute joke" (He actually started getting pretty animated at this point)

Her: "I just mentioned that..."

Me: "..yeah exactly...what can you do...anyway, I had better leave you to it, nice meeting you both...cheers"

Them: "you too mate...take care"

And just the other day, I get a WhatsApp from my mate, he's an Arsenal supporter.

Him:.."hello mate, how you doing? I watched the FA Cup, was really hoping your boys would beat them..."

Me: "I'm good mate, hope you are too. Yeah me and you both, but what can you do. We just don't have the squad depth that City do, they've got £70m sitting on the bench!"

Him: "I know it's ridiculous, but then if we (Arsenal) cooked the books like they've done we'd have quality sitting on the bench too. 115 FFP actions and f*ck all will get done about it..."

Me: "don't get me started on that mate.."

The moral of this story is that the first thing that came out of all their mouths seperately, when mentioning City, was the fact they all mentioned City were cheats. I didn't even have to say or goad them at all.

Every other fan of every other clubs knows it.
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Lovely story and it gives me hope that the other 19+ clubs won’t stand for it any longer.
How on earth can one inflated ‘club’ be allowed to hoover up all the competitions while the rest stick to the rules?
It makes the whole thing pointless and will end up with fans walking away from the EPL
 
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