Are top flight footballers better than equivalent athletes from other sports?

BusbyMalone

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So thought I would create this thread which is inspired by this article by Michael Cox. Seems to have stirred up some debate on Twitter (who would have thought!) In true Michael Cox style, he is very dismissive and patronizing (not to mention strangely angry) at any dissenting voices.

The argument he seems to be making is that the competition is so strong in football, that to truly stand out as elite you have to be really special. So special, in fact, that you don't quite see it in other sport to the same degree.

Somebody listed a few sport stars who would disagree, and Michael countered with: "Messi is better at football than all of those are at their sports”

So it’s that type of argument.

Thoughts?
 

Norris

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Better in what sense? Physically, mentally?. You cannot really compare can you, the prep work done for each sport, be it individual or team-based are totally different and depends on the demands on the game and something which has been conditioned in them from a very young age.
 

Harry190

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Yes. Considering how many games they play, the training sessions. Yes, comfortably so.
 

Ish

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Better in what sense? Physically, mentally?. You cannot really compare can you, the prep work done for each sport, be it individual or team-based are totally different and depends on the demands on the game and something which has been conditioned in them from a very young age.
Not by reading much I’d say it’s probably a law of probabilities due to the sheer number of “footballers” in the world, vs other sports. Jesse’s shirt he used to wear about some percentage of footballers actually only making pro etc.

Id be surprised if there was an actual metric to distinguish footballers from other sports. & I tend to agree with you about the incomparability.
 

rhajdu

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You also have to factor in that footballers most probably have access to the best facilities and to the best experts.
 

Rossa

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Someone once argued that too many footballers drink and party too much to be considered top athletes. A friend of mine who was a junior national champion swimmer was told at 16 by his coach that he had to quit drinking alcohol if he was to compete with the best in the world. Obviously he stopped training and drank double.

In terms of athleticism, I think many are better. There are footballers in the PL that carry a few pounds too many. Not sure you would get away with that as a pro athlete in individual sports like swimming, running etc. Don’t think they would perform better in varied tests than rugby, Am. football, basketball etc.

In terms of all other aspects of the sport, he may be right that pro footballers are extremely good. However, are they better than pro basketball players, hockey players, volleyball, tennis etc? Hard to say.
 

Spaghetti

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It’s the most popular sport and the one that most people try to be good at, so it would make sense.

It also involves a lot of skill sets in one game.
 

Chipper

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Yes, I'd go along with that as a general thing. The deeper the talent pool the harder it is to rise to the top.

The Olympics are currently on, and compared to football there are a number of sports in it that fewer people have ever tried. If as many who have ever played football had also tried archery or sailing and they were as culturally popular then most of the current world's best at those sports would probably be replaced by better competitors. How many have ever had the opportunity to try motor racing? The F1 field would likely look different if it was a billion.

I think athletics has a deep pool of talent too as everyone has run a race at some point and it's relatively easy to know if you're quick or not and if you were you might want to pursue it.
 

Dave Smith

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Not sure. American sports are pretty cut throat when it comes to athletic ability. Especially in American Football in the skill positions.
 

mancan92

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I'd say gymnast are of a higher level. First it's an individual sport secondly the actual physical ability they showcase is far higher than footballers and the level required to be that good is training intensely everyday.

In fact the more I think about it the more it's clear that a gymnast at that level is alot higher than a top footballer.

People also forget that football has many positions and skillets. In gymnastics there is 1 skill set and you have to be great at.
 

El Jefe

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Is this really true? I mean I watch football and basketball in equal measure and I believe the skill level of the top 20 basketball players is higher than that of the best 20 footballers. Its hard to say as a whole if the average PL/La liga/CL footballer is better than the average NBA or NFL player, there's almost no way of measuring that.
 

flappyjay

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Not sure. American sports are pretty cut throat when it comes to athletic ability. Especially in American Football in the skill positions.
Factor in that they don't have lower leagues so it's nfl or bust
 

André Dominguez

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We had some football pros coming to our Judo and BJJ club make a training: they were dead by exaustion at the end of the warm up, and during combat training they defaulted after 2 minutes.

So, no, not really that impressive.
 

Chipper

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Great Britain have sent 13 and 14 year old girls to the Olympics in skateboarding. Now to be fair, that could be because the sports suits younger females much in the same way that gymnastics does. Also can't help but think that there's not many female British skateboarders out there or that many worldwide either and it's probably quite easy to make the team.

I once represented England in junior flag (American) football when there were 8 teams in the country. I like to think I was good but was probably shit really.
 

charlenefan

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Good thread, I'd say Messi or Ronaldo for example are comfortably better at football than Federer or Djokovic are at Tenis for example however I'm fairly sure studies show Tenis is more physically exerting but then something like Boxing is going to be the most physically exerting of all so I guess that has to be factored in
 

flappyjay

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Is this really true? I mean I watch football and basketball in equal measure and I believe the skill level of the top 20 basketball players is higher than that of the best 20 footballers. Its hard to say as a whole if the average PL/La liga/CL footballer is better than the average NBA or NFL player, there's almost no way of measuring that.
545, 844 high-school basketball players turn into17, 500 college players and then of those 17, 500 only 48 -60 get drafted in to the NBA. Of that 48-60 how many actually make a career in the NBA. It's tough in other sports too as you say.
 

pacifictheme

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We had some football pros coming to our Judo and BJJ club make a training: they were dead by exaustion at the end of the warm up, and during combat training they defaulted after 2 minutes.

So, no, not really that impressive.
Yes footballers not being good at judo proves everything. Ha ha ha
 

Classical Mechanic

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Warm up is just physical training, not Judo specific.
That’s because they’re conditioned to a completely different sport with a different set of physical demands.

I think what Cox is getting at is the talent pool in football is so deep because of participation levels and how players can be of various different physiques that it’s harder to become elite than in other sports. The average player in football is at a higher level than the average player in other sports.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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I read the article.. it basically compares footballers against Rugby and Cricket players in England, and focuses on the fact how top flight players get to play at that level and what competition they face, because football is the default sport in the UK, but also the most popular sport in the world, and Mane or Salah who come from football-mad nations had to be the best of the best in the world to play as forward for Liverpool.


The writer doesn't mention USA sports, but I get his point, which is to play in top flight football in England/Spain/Italy, etc.. you have to be the best of the very best.
 

Blackwidow

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Someone once argued that too many footballers drink and party too much to be considered top athletes. A friend of mine who was a junior national champion swimmer was told at 16 by his coach that he had to quit drinking alcohol if he was to compete with the best in the world. Obviously he stopped training and drank double.

In terms of athleticism, I think many are better. There are footballers in the PL that carry a few pounds too many. Not sure you would get away with that as a pro athlete in individual sports like swimming, running etc. Don’t think they would perform better in varied tests than rugby, Am. football, basketball etc.

In terms of all other aspects of the sport, he may be right that pro footballers are extremely good. However, are they better than pro basketball players, hockey players, volleyball, tennis etc? Hard to say.
In my eyes today (can be different in other times) you actually need to live a professional life to get into the top echalon of footballers. Yes, there I might be footballers in the top leagues that aren't really living a professional life but that are players that probably miss out on being at the top level they could be.
 

Kasper

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I think people evaluating the "skillness" or physical demand of football are missing the point.
The argument of the OP is purely a numbers game.
Football is the world's biggest sport and has the most people playing it. To reach the absolute top is therefore relatively harder than in sports that less people play.
If I'm reasonably good (amateur level obviously) at field hockey (let's say, playing 1 hour/week for 10 years) and I pick random 50 people on the street to play against, the odds that I'm better than every one of them are quite good. Same scenario for my football abilities and the odds are not good at all, there's a high chance someone of these 50 people will be better than me just due to the fact that so many people play it.
So yes, in relative comparison, the best football player in the world is better than equivalent athletes of other sports.

One question is if this line if argument can be extended to all professional football players because the economic position of football and the amount of people able to live off it is definitely bigger in relative comparison than other sports. I think there're +100.000 professional football players in the world and I doubt (just for comparison) that there are more than 10.000 professional runners. So making it to professional level in football, even if bigger competition, seems relatively easier than in running (reasonable big competition, very few full paid opportunities).
 

mancan92

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Good thread, I'd say Messi or Ronaldo for example are comfortably better at football than Federer or Djokovic are at Tenis for example however I'm fairly sure studies show Tenis is more physically exerting but then something like Boxing is going to be the most physically exerting of all so I guess that has to be factored in
But football is a team sport so you share responsibility and mental energy. Tennis is singular which for me makes it a mentally tougher sport.
 

BusbyMalone

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Yes, I'd go along with that as a general thing. The deeper the talent pool the harder it is to rise to the top.

The Olympics are currently on, and compared to football there are a number of sports in it that fewer people have ever tried. If as many who have ever played football had also tried archery or sailing and they were as culturally popular then most of the current world's best at those sports would probably be replaced by better competitors. How many have ever had the opportunity to try motor racing? The F1 field would likely look different if it was a billion.

I think athletics has a deep pool of talent too as everyone has run a race at some point and it's relatively easy to know if you're quick or not and if you were you might want to pursue it.
Yeah, there's a similar argument about Golf. Obviously not as prohibitive as F1, but generally seen as a "rich man's sport" and only the wealthy tend to have the luxury of getting to the top. Or so it goes, anyway. Because someone said the gap between an amateur golfer and a pro golfer is huge. Much bigger than the jump from amateur footballer to pro footballer. The guy who wrote the article disagreed saying the pool is much smaller so competition isn't as intense in golf.

Instinctively, I would have said that the gap between amateur golfer and the pro golfer is bigger than the gap between amateur footballer and pro footballer. But maybe not.
 

charlenefan

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But football is a team sport so you share responsibility and mental energy. Tennis is singular which for me makes it a mentally tougher sport.
I agree so that plus the added physicality does that make them better? How can you compare?
 

90 + 5min

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So thought I would create this thread which is inspired by this article by Michael Cox. Seems to have stirred up some debate on Twitter (who would have thought!) In true Michael Cox style, he is very dismissive and patronizing (not to mention strangely angry) at any dissenting voices.

The argument he seems to be making is that the competition is so strong in football, that to truly stand out as elite you have to be really special. So special, in fact, that you don't quite see it in other sport to the same degree.

Somebody listed a few sport stars who would disagree, and Michael countered with: "Messi is better at football than all of those are at their sports”

So it’s that type of argument.

Thoughts?
Totally disagree. It is like the writter don't have any knowledge of other sports and amount of hard work needed to even get near top level. I would argue that there a lot of other sports that are more demanding both physically and mentally before, during and after competition. I'm not saying football is easy, but this is just a click-bait journalism.

The bold one really points out how little he knows about other sports.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Better in what sense? Physically, mentally?. You cannot really compare can you, the prep work done for each sport, be it individual or team-based are totally different and depends on the demands on the game and something which has been conditioned in them from a very young age.
All of the above.

I don’t think anyone could argue that PL footballers are fitter and stronger than athletes in any other discipline. But (almost) anyone can get extremely fit and/or strong if they put in enough hard work.

Hard work on its own is not enough to get to the very top in a sport as popular as football.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Totally disagree. It is like the writter don't have any knowledge of other sports and amount of hard work needed to even get near top level. I would argue that there a lot of other sports that are more demanding both physically and mentally before, during and after competition. I'm not saying football is easy, but this is just a click-bait journalism.

The bold one really points out how little he knows about other sports.
Look at the UK's best Olympian at the moment, Adam Peaty. Apparently he's competing in the best field that his discipline has ever had but he's a clear level above everyone else. The question is if his discipline had the participations levels of football and every third kid dreaming of being the best breast stroke swimmer in the world would his level of competition be greater making it harder for him to look so good? I'd say that it's highly likely that it would. I'd go as far as saying that it would be probable that you'd find at least one person in his generation better than him.
 

Sky1981

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They're weak mentally in my eyes compared to olympians who only have 1 slim window to perform every few years.

Some footballers cough.. martial can have purple patches for months. Some can't even kick penalties without ballooning it wide, considering that's what they do every day it's abit embarrassing if they miss from 12 yards.

The amount of defensive lapse or striker missing out a sitter is alarming level for so called top best athletes of all sport. Even snooker requires higher consistency rate.

Olympians dont have room for this kinds of error. Most of them trains for years for that one moment of glory. Hell top level chess is more demanding mentally
 

JebelSherif

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I always remember this: when I was at school a good mate of mine was into road cycling. He was in the top-ten for his age group in the country, liked a fag though.

Everytime we did cross-country (like once a year when the weather was shittiest) he would win it by 5 minutes, at least, so I'd have to say those Tour de France/Olympic cyclists must be right up there.

Also agree the gymnasts have some power and that Adam Peaty, the swimmer, he looks solid.
 

Oranges038

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Different people are good at different sports. Different sports require different physical and mental capabilties. No point in comparing across sports unless they are similar. Anyone can come up with this shit.

Ronnie O'Sullivan is probably better at snooker than Lewis Hamilton is a driving a car.

Messi is probably better at football than Phil Taylor is at darts.

Federer was probably better at tennis than Lomu was at Rugby.

Henry Shefflin was better at hurling than any of these guys were/are at their chosen sports.
 

90 + 5min

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Look at the UK's best Olympian at the moment, Adam Peaty. Apparently he's competing in the best field that his discipline has ever had but he's a clear level above everyone else. The question is if his discipline had the participations levels of football and every third kid dreaming of being the best breast stroke swimmer in the world would his level of competition be greater making it harder for him to look so good? I'd say that it's highly likely that it would. I'd go as far as saying that it would be probable that you'd find at least one person in his generation better than him.
It is all about discipline and dedication to your sport. I don't care if you are swimmer, hockeyplayer, footballer or boxer. Whatever the sport is, you must put down the hard work regardless how many there are around you in that sport. Even if you do there are no guarantees. You take Adam as example. He is that good because he clearly has been working hard. It is not because lack of competition.

And people can look the other way around. How many chances can a footballer get to be in top flight looking at amount of the clubs being given to them? How many chances can (for example) american football player get looking at amount of clubs.

I'm still curious how he has come up with that argument that footballers are better.
 

JPRouve

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It's a difficult question to answer and depends on what you are judging. For example Football isn't the sport where there is the highest concentration of talent, if you use Rugby as an example there is no league in Foobtall that compares to the Top 14 and Super Rugby. There is a fairly large gap between the best players in Football and most of their teammates or the opponents that they generally face on a weekly basis. Now if the point is about the probability to becoming a professional footballer and also playing in one of the top leagues then Football is by far the most difficult because the pool of candidates is significantly larger.
 

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Just out of curiosity, are there any stats about how many people are actually participating on a competitive level in different types of sport around the world? I guess football is the most played sport at clubs, but I've never really seen any stats about it.
 

Sky1981

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Just out of curiosity, are there any stats about how many people are actually participating on a competitive level in different types of sport around the world? I guess football is the most played sport at clubs, but I've never really seen any stats about it.
I'd say NBA is up there with the number of games played. Other than that the rest of the sports seems to only be a few times a year at best.
 

dannyrhinos89

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while I agree that football probably has the most number of players worldwide playing at all levels I don’t buy the notion the ones that do make it pro are the best.

honestly there’s a ton of footballers playing at the very highest level that have absolutely no right to be there.

making it as a professional is complete luck.
 

Tarrou

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of course it's true, it's just basic logic

think of it this way, to be one of the top 10 footballers in the world you need to be better than x number of professionals

to be in the top 10 of any other pro sport in the world the number is (usually way) less than x
 

the chameleon

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Yes. Much much better.

Football is a global game with easy access for anyone in the world to play.

Whether you go Europe, South America, Africa and parts of Asia, you will see massive fans of the sport. When you then factor in the number of kids playing the game, dreaming of being like their heroes.

I grew up in London, I was decent player (very skilful and with a good passing range). There were many good players in my school. I barely got into the B team in my year. We had some youth-level players for the local teams. None of them got it. Had a mate playing for Kingstonian team, he was outstanding. I would look good on the playground at school and in parks with people in my class, had some good 5 a side tournaments. But when I went to my cousin's neighbourhood in South London, I couldn't keep up with the lads there in the park.

My point is that the level of football in England, Europe from grassroots is so steep. You might laugh at some players for having 2 left feet, but you would be in awe of them if they came for a kickabout in your local park.

Then when you think of elite level, you're you're talking creme la creme. These players to get where they are must have been extremely special.

Compare this to some posh sport like water polo or horse racing (where you get Zara Philips competing). Even basketball or cricket (despite being huge in America or subcontinent) have that steep of curve between grassroots to elite.

This is why Ronaldo and Messi are far better than Federer, Nadal, Hamilton or Tendulker are or were at their respective sports. Not taking anything away from heroes from other sports. The fact is the competition and obstacles to even make it as a player for any of the top 6 leagues in Europe or even Championship in England is so high and cut throat.