Are United in Financial Trouble?

KingCantona87

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Does anybody else feel that United have some serious financial/cashflow problems that we aren't aware of? The constant and somewhat silly fretting over player's prices? The ever-growing amount of debt that the club (not the Glazers) are saddled with?

That's the only logical reason I can think of (not signing anyone) when it is so patently obvious that we need fresh players in the squad. I just don't buy the guff about there not being any players available because it is January. If United wanted a player, they sure as feck could go out and buy that player (or at least so I once thought).

This whole schtick about them changing transfer policy doesn't sit well with me and I am greatly concerned that we could go the way of Leeds if things continue on as they are....
 

Jibbs

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It is nothing like that, as far as I understand, I think Glazers are no more interested in United, and want to sell, hence they don't want to invest much. The problem they are facing is, because United is such a behemoth, they are unable to find a suitable buyer at this price point.
 

cyril C

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Our problem is NEVER on financial, our problem is buying player who isn't good enough to play in 1st 11, hiring manager who doesn't know how to make use of current squad hence end up getting rid of players we regret a few months later. If Bruno is guaranteed to be as good as KDB, I don't think the Board would hesitate. Are you ready to pay 60m for another Fred?
 

Denis79

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It is nothing like that, as far as I understand, I think Glazers are no more interested in United, and want to sell, hence they don't want to invest much. The problem they are facing is, because United is such a behemoth, they are unable to find a suitable buyer at this price point.
When do our Adidas and Chevrolet partnerships run out? I doubt we would attract the same huge deals considering how poorly we perform and the squad we have.
 

Bojan11

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When do our Adidas and Chevrolet partnerships run out? I doubt we would attract the same huge deals considering how poorly we perform and the squad we have.
Doesn’t the Adidas have a champions league clause that kicks in for next season if we don’t make it?

Our net spend has been nothing in the last two summer windows considering our outgoings also.
 

Denis79

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Doesn’t the Adidas have a champions league clause that kicks in for next season if we don’t make it?

Our net spend has been nothing in the last two summer windows considering our outgoings also.
Don't remember how the Adidas clause was, wasn't it something like that we weren't allowed to miss several CL's in a row or something?
 

Ali Dia

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1: they sell up and don’t spend much more before they go.They cash out super rich.

2: this is some kind of genius plan to totally strip the club back and come back stronger and with a different ethos to the adult Disneyland nightmare. I can’t see Woodward not fecking that up so that’s a massive worry about where we are headed.

3: they’ve rolled the dice and threw so much bad money around and realised they didn’t really need to spend as much for the next few years to keep pumping money out of the club while they decide what to do next and this is that in action. In that sense I think we are in financial trouble. Our owners aren’t but the club from the supporters view most certainly is. The owners just won’t want to spend what it takes after wasting so much and seeing no return. I also saw somewhere that we still owe a lot of money for past transfer fees too. Like hundreds of millions. It’s a disaster!
 
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RyRy11

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It is nothing like that, as far as I understand, I think Glazers are no more interested in United, and want to sell, hence they don't want to invest much. The problem they are facing is, because United is such a behemoth, they are unable to find a suitable buyer at this price point.
This is exactly it. Short term United will stay profitable, if they are looking to sell why spend another £200m in multiple transfer windows when Ed has already come out and said that what happens on field doesn’t affect the financial ability of the club. Sooner we get these clowns out of the club the sooner we get back on track.
 

sdb4884

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This is exactly it. Short term United will stay profitable, if they are looking to sell why spend another £200m in multiple transfer windows when Ed has already come out and said that what happens on field doesn’t affect the financial ability of the club. Sooner we get these clowns out of the club the sooner we get back on track.
Makes sense, guess we are in this holding pattern until they leave or die then.
 

bosnian_red

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It is nothing like that, as far as I understand, I think Glazers are no more interested in United, and want to sell, hence they don't want to invest much. The problem they are facing is, because United is such a behemoth, they are unable to find a suitable buyer at this price point.
I think this is it. The amount we make, we should be spending far more than we do. We had a few years of somewhat normal spending and it didnt pan out, so they tightened up the purse strings and now dont care about performances or results.
 

Tarrou

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I can think of a few reasons why we're not investing atm

- they are intent on giving someone else the job in the summer and are reserving the budget
- they are ready to sell and don't want to invest significantly until they do
- Ed or whoever is so incompetent in making deals they haven't managed to sign anyone yet
 

Jibbs

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I'd elaborate it further... even if Saudis are interested, they are shrewd investors, they have examples of Man City, PSG or even clubs like Leicester City and Everton in front of them. Compared to what United would cost, these clubs were bought in peanuts, but with proper investment in infrastructure and players, they have been able to create a big brand out of them and if the results continue like that, they may overtake United in 5 to 10 years. So from ROI point of view, United is a difficult investment. Right now it will require at least another 500 mn investment in players and infrastructure to turn it around, in addition to 4 bn required to buy the club
Compared to that a club like Crystal Palace would cost may be 100 mn. With 500mn investment it may start competing for the titles and could become a recognizable global brand with market value of 2 bn in 10 years time.
 

devilish

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I'd elaborate it further... even if Saudis are interested, they are shrewd investors, they have examples of Man City, PSG or even clubs like Leicester City and Everton in front of them. Compared to what United would cost, these clubs were bought in peanuts, but with proper investment in infrastructure and players, they have been able to create a big brand out of them and if the results continue like that, they may overtake United in 5 to 10 years. So from ROI point of view, United is a difficult investment. Right now it will require at least another 500 mn investment in players and infrastructure to turn it around, in addition to 4 bn required to buy the club
Compared to that a club like Crystal Palace would cost may be 100 mn. With 500mn investment it may start competing for the titles and could become a recognizable global brand with market value of 2 bn in 10 years time.
its difficult to buy a 'fan base' as big as Man united's though. Roman tried to build at Chelsea and he failed. I think the Glazers are being too greedy and the price need to be lowered for them to sell. However let's not throw Manchester United away. For what the Saudi want to do, Manchester United is a good investment.
 

Jibbs

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its difficult to buy a 'fan base' as big as Man united's though. Roman tried to build at Chelsea and he failed. I think the Glazers are being too greedy and the price need to be lowered for them to sell. However let's not throw Manchester United away. For what the Saudi want to do, Manchester United is a good investment.
I pondered on that, but most United fans are at least 25 years old... we are not gaining younger fans as much as other clubs because of our poor showing in last 7 years. But yes United is the most well known Football brand along with Real and Barca, it can be turned around quickly. The thing is 4 to 5 bn is quite a huge investment compared to 500,600 mn. Hard to find takers at this level, additionally United's value is determined by stock price. Why would Glazers purposefully want to lower their asset value.
 

devilish

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I pondered on that, but most United fans are at least 25 years old... we are not gaining younger fans as much as other clubs because of our poor showing in last 7 years. But yes United is the most well known Football brand along with Real and Barca, it can be turned around quickly. The thing is 4 to 5 bn is quite a huge investment compared to 500,600 mn. Hard to find takers at this level, additionally United's value is determined by stock price. Why would Glazers purposefully want to lower their asset value.
As said 4b-5b is a big ask and the Glazers need to lower their demands if they want to sell. Its like someone inheriting a huge mansion whom he can't afford. He either end up going bankrupt because of it (taxes, maintenance etc) while he does shoddy work that cheapens the place or else he lowers the price a bit and he sells it before it become a burden on him. The Glazers can't afford United anymore. The rebuilding is far too big for their pockets and that rebuilding will need to be factored in the price.
 

MyDevil

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I feel the same too. These dragging of player signing and I read somewhere that the Glazers continue to apply loan for themselves. Isn't Mourinho once said "I thought Man Utd can buy any player."?
Not saying that we are in trouble but may be there are some financial constraints there.
 

nikineil

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I can think of a few reasons why we're not investing atm

- they are intent on giving someone else the job in the summer and are reserving the budget
- they are ready to sell and don't want to invest significantly until they do
- Ed or whoever is so incompetent in making deals they haven't managed to sign anyone yet
I honestly think it could be all of the above.
 

Denis' cuff

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The fact that we are even asking this question is alarming.

how the feck have we gone from the wealthiest, most profitable club on the planet to this is just a few short years?
Yet unbelievably, there are still some people defending these fecking leeches who are ruining our club and all that has been put into making it what it is... or was.

its all Moyes/LVG/Jose/Oles fault though.
 

Lentwood

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I’m not saying the club aren’t rich but we don’t have anywhere near as much money to spend on transfers as 95% of this forum seem to think we do

We’ve spent £715m net since 2013. Only City have spent more with £735m.

Chelsea have spent £188m net, Liverpool £140m and Spurs around £60m

This forum seems to believe clubs have endless cash they can just pour into buying players and it’s just not true of any club in the world. We’ve wasted it, simple as that. Until we can get players out and reduce the wage bill i certainly can’t see a big spending spree
 

Volumiza

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Something definitely isn’t right. I’m no more in the know than anyone in here but there has to be a reason why:

a) we’ve gone from being arguably the best team in the world with a strong and committed squad to this. I mean, our squad is a disgrace for a club of our size and supposed wealth.

Key positions have been neglected, we’ve made do with players that anyone of us can see isn’t the quality we should have on the field if we have aspirations of winning anything. No other top team would dream of being in a situation where playing Lingard, Mata, Perreira, so regularly is a real option.

b) Why haven’t we replaced Rashford? We sold Lukaku and now Rashford, the source of the bulk of our goals this season, is injured long term. We should have identified a replacement the moment that happened. The window is open. Anyone of us can clearly see that without him we are going to struggle to score. If we don’t replace his goals then it is going to be a long season.

c) Look at Liverpool’s, City’s and Spurs bench. Look at ours. Our squad is so thin. Someone has let it go that way. Ed? Ole? Jose? Whoever it is, the fact is we haven’t invested in our squad properly and no one is taking charge and sorting it out.

We hear we’re rebuilding but at the pace it is happening it will never be enough.

It’s a shambles and last night was an embarrassment. I don’t like savaging our club but we clearly have negligent, apathetic and profit driven owners that are unconcerned that we aren’t winning. But we also have a manager who is so far out of his depth I feel sorry for him.

Anyone can see that we need to do some serious shopping and players who would improve our squad could be found easily, we don’t even have to look at the ‘World Class’ players.
 

GiddyUp

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Well instead of pinching pennies on the squad how about we move the "HQ" from London to fecking Manchester. Tell these cnuts the work for Manchester United so get the feck up to Manchester. We are a fecking disaster and I can't defend anything about this club when in conversation.
 

Paxi

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It is nothing like that, as far as I understand, I think Glazers are no more interested in United, and want to sell, hence they don't want to invest much. The problem they are facing is, because United is such a behemoth, they are unable to find a suitable buyer at this price point.
Could they not float all of their shares on stock exchange and receive the money that way. That means they wouldn't have to have find a buyer who's going to fork out 4bn all by themselves?
 

Sandikan

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I’m not saying the club aren’t rich but we don’t have anywhere near as much money to spend on transfers as 95% of this forum seem to think we do

We’ve spent £715m net since 2013. Only City have spent more with £735m.

Chelsea have spent £188m net, Liverpool £140m and Spurs around £60m

This forum seems to believe clubs have endless cash they can just pour into buying players and it’s just not true of any club in the world. We’ve wasted it, simple as that. Until we can get players out and reduce the wage bill i certainly can’t see a big spending spree
Exactly. And without smart signings on the cheap we simply can't keep whopping 50-80m signings out repeatedly.

The two signings in that territory this year were counter balanced with lukaku out and a saving on some of sanchez wage.
 

GiddyUp

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Something definitely isn’t right. I’m no more in the know than anyone in here but there has to be a reason why:

a) we’ve gone from being arguably the best team in the world with a strong and committed squad to this. I mean, our squad is a disgrace for a club of our size and supposed wealth.

Key positions have been neglected, we’ve made do with players that anyone of us can see isn’t the quality we should have on the field if we have aspirations of winning anything. No other top team would dream of being in a situation where playing Lingard, Mata, Perreira, so regularly is a real option.

b) Why haven’t we replaced Rashford? We sold Lukaku and now Rashford, the source of the bulk of our goals this season, is injured long term. We should have identified a replacement the moment that happened. The window is open. Anyone of us can clearly see that without him we are going to struggle to score. If we don’t replace his goals then it is going to be a long season.

c) Look at Liverpool’s, City’s and Spurs bench. Look at ours. Our squad is so thin. Someone has let it go that way. Ed? Ole? Jose? Whoever it is, the fact is we haven’t invested in our squad properly and no one is taking charge and sorting it out.

We hear we’re rebuilding but at the pace it is happening it will never be enough.

It’s a shambles and last night was an embarrassment. I don’t like savaging our club but we clearly have negligent, apathetic and profit driven owners that are unconcerned that we aren’t winning. But we also have a manager who is so far out of his depth I feel sorry for him.

Anyone can see that we need to do some serious shopping and players who would improve our squad could be found easily, we don’t even have to look at the ‘World Class’ players.
It's fecking mind boggling that no one at the club are taking this shit seriously. There has to be something serious going on behind the scenes because everyone from the kid walloping a ball against a wall to a hipster NY Cosmos fan can point out the fecking obvious flaws.
 

montpelier

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As I understand it, a large but serviceable debt puts off buyers. Its not a problem in itself, we spend as much as anybody, but really badly.

At least we are trying something different, if you believe what they say. I suppose I do, so a new Manager doesn't really help at this stage. We are now short of numbers up front and in MF too though.

I was happy to write off this season but expected transfer movement now and in the summer to make next season viable and progressive, and with potential that Ole has to be realising by that stage.

A lot of you are not with that, it has to has happen now or any current Manager has to leave - not that we are making the best choices, tbf.

I have us finishing 7th - 10th atm. It's a mess, alright.
 

msra5kg2

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A timely thread. From a financial standpoint we made a loss in 2018 and only managed to break even of c£10m net profit, in 2019. Whilst we did spend £145m on signings we did reduce our wage bill and recouped £75m from Lukaku. Our revenue used to be powered by champions league progression and lucrative PL rights and both those are diminishing.

So from a transfer perspective, the issues are that we do need to get rid of the deadwood. However we don’t have the financial muscle, or even the pull factor, to replace them with high quality players. Instead we have enough money to sign young talent that may benefit us in a few years time. Can we do that savvily? I don’t believe we have the right infrastructure in place at old Trafford to get it done so unfortunately the verdict is for us to get used to top 6 battles for the next few years. We’d be better of consolidating our scouting network and recruit a quality DOF to make this strategy work.

Without investment into this club, infrastructure and let alone the first team, we’ll not only be used to a top 6 battle but lose every bit of prestige we built pre glazers. Be interesting what we do (or don’t do) this summer.
 
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RyRy11

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I'd elaborate it further... even if Saudis are interested, they are shrewd investors, they have examples of Man City, PSG or even clubs like Leicester City and Everton in front of them. Compared to what United would cost, these clubs were bought in peanuts, but with proper investment in infrastructure and players, they have been able to create a big brand out of them and if the results continue like that, they may overtake United in 5 to 10 years. So from ROI point of view, United is a difficult investment. Right now it will require at least another 500 mn investment in players and infrastructure to turn it around, in addition to 4 bn required to buy the club
Compared to that a club like Crystal Palace would cost may be 100 mn. With 500mn investment it may start competing for the titles and could become a recognizable global brand with market value of 2 bn in 10 years time.
Firstly you are buying the fan base and history that comes with the club.

Secondly they would be buying to get a one up on their Middle Eastern rivals, It would take way over 10 years to Emulate and repeat what City have and are doing trophy-wise at a smaller club.

These are people that have more wealth than you can possibly imagine, £4bn Seems like a sound investment considering how profitable we are as a club/brand and getting us back to the top will only increase that the way that football in progressing as a sport.
 

RyRy11

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I'd elaborate it further... even if Saudis are interested, they are shrewd investors, they have examples of Man City, PSG or even clubs like Leicester City and Everton in front of them. Compared to what United would cost, these clubs were bought in peanuts, but with proper investment in infrastructure and players, they have been able to create a big brand out of them and if the results continue like that, they may overtake United in 5 to 10 years. So from ROI point of view, United is a difficult investment. Right now it will require at least another 500 mn investment in players and infrastructure to turn it around, in addition to 4 bn required to buy the club
Compared to that a club like Crystal Palace would cost may be 100 mn. With 500mn investment it may start competing for the titles and could become a recognizable global brand with market value of 2 bn in 10 years time.
Firstly you are buying the fan base and history that comes with the club.

Secondly they would be buying to get a one up on their Middle Eastern rivals, It would take way over 10 years to Emulate and repeat what City have and are doing trophy-wise at a smaller club.

These are people that have more wealth than you can possibly imagine, £4bn Seems like a sound investment considering how profitable we are as a club/brand and getting us back to the top will only increase that the way that football in progressing as a sport.
 

ivaldo

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When do our Adidas and Chevrolet partnerships run out? I doubt we would attract the same huge deals considering how poorly we perform and the squad we have.
From early indications, it looks as though it'll be another record breaking deal.
 

JPRouve

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It is nothing like that, as far as I understand, I think Glazers are no more interested in United, and want to sell, hence they don't want to invest much. The problem they are facing is, because United is such a behemoth, they are unable to find a suitable buyer at this price point.
The Glazers do not have the cash in the first place, they don't have hundreds of millions to spend on a football club, their wealth is tied to real estate and the ownership of United and the Bucs. Secondly United spend pretty much all its revenue on operating expenses(95% of our revenue).
 

Swearing Budgie

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When do our Adidas and Chevrolet partnerships run out? I doubt we would attract the same huge deals considering how poorly we perform and the squad we have.
The Sondico shirts with Greggs sponsorship are in the bag for 2022. Ed nails it again!
 

Jinn

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I’m not saying the club aren’t rich but we don’t have anywhere near as much money to spend on transfers as 95% of this forum seem to think we do

We’ve spent £715m net since 2013. Only City have spent more with £735m.

Chelsea have spent £188m net, Liverpool £140m and Spurs around £60m

This forum seems to believe clubs have endless cash they can just pour into buying players and it’s just not true of any club in the world. We’ve wasted it, simple as that. Until we can get players out and reduce the wage bill i certainly can’t see a big spending spree
That's fair, but forget about the past. What about now? We need players now, if they have the money go out and get them. We have been getting rid of players, wage bill is still high, but we need investment now.
Is this not considered a crisis, or am i being overly dramatic?
 

Adisa

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We aren't in financial trouble but we are far from rich as it's often made out.
Just have a look at our annual reports, we cannot spend the sort of money that is being asked.
I see some fans saying we should spend 300m in one window. We simply can't do it.
 

Roboc7

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Herrera, Fellaini, Matic, Mata, Rojo, Sanchez, Jones, Smalling. If others join first two in leaving we probably raise zero towards new transfers as paying off Sanchez cancels out Smalling’s/Fellani’s transfer fee.

You cut the wage bill (which is probably a necessity) but where is money going to come from to replace them. That’s a third of a squad, gone for nothing. In this era of extortionate transfer fees you would need a huge budget, we simply don’t have the money or ambition to sort this mess out.
 

Adisa

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That's fair, but forget about the past. What about now? We need players now, if they have the money go out and get them. We have been getting rid of players, wage bill is still high, but we need investment now.
Is this not considered a crisis, or am i being overly dramatic?
The club cannot spend what it does not have.
 

MikeUpNorth

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I’m not saying the club aren’t rich but we don’t have anywhere near as much money to spend on transfers as 95% of this forum seem to think we do

We’ve spent £715m net since 2013. Only City have spent more with £735m.

Chelsea have spent £188m net, Liverpool £140m and Spurs around £60m

This forum seems to believe clubs have endless cash they can just pour into buying players and it’s just not true of any club in the world. We’ve wasted it, simple as that. Until we can get players out and reduce the wage bill i certainly can’t see a big spending spree
This is correct. We’e already spent our money, and we spent it unbelievably poorly.

From here on out it will be a process of trying to continue to lower the wage bill and pick up two or three players at reasonable prices each year.