More like in a perpertual self induced coma..
Are we… a sleeping giant?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
hans, are we the goldie?
Sure, but fully waking up from hibernation isn’t really a process you can speed up easily or force.
There are a few examples of massive clubs that woke up from slumbers by spending loads of money quickly.
Real Madrid between 09 and 10 spring to mind, after years of underperforming in Europe and with Barca looking to dominate La Liga and the CL for the foreseeable future, they went and spent their ways to force success.
Ronaldo, Kaka, Alonso, Benzema, followed by Ozil, Khedira and Di Maria the next summer.
Benzema was 35m, that’s a 150m player these days, out of France.
Ozil cost them 18m, that’s a 130m player out of Germany today.
Ronaldo cost then 94m, that’s a 250m+ player today.
Xabi Alonso was 40m, that’s a 130m player today.
Di Maria would cost like a Diomande.
I’m not even sure if these players of that quality are available today.
It was a different time, a different world, a different environment.
Even City wouldn’t be able to do what they did and have all that success that followed the fantastic signings like Aguero, David Silva, Yaya Toure, De Bruyne, you’re looking at over half a billy on these players alone in today’s market, forget it.
What’s unfortunate is that our “no vlaue in the market” period ironically coincided with one of the best periods of talent pool in football history, that’s where the mess started really.
I don’t think we’re in the financial situation or the environment to do it anymore, the current Premier League is highly competitive, we gave it a good go with trying to spend our ways to success in a much less competitive league environment between 2014 and 2016, we failed, badly.
I actually feel quite positive, I think the fact that we managed to finish third last season, after the unprecedented recruitment disaster that the ETH era will be defined by, and the coaching incompetence that the Amorim year will always be defined by, to be able to still be competitive after all this is a testament to how great the club is.
By consistently making cool decisions instead of goofball decisions we’ll eventually get to where the club needs to be, its just not a process you can fast forward, it will only set us back an another decade.
There are a few examples of massive clubs that woke up from slumbers by spending loads of money quickly.
Real Madrid between 09 and 10 spring to mind, after years of underperforming in Europe and with Barca looking to dominate La Liga and the CL for the foreseeable future, they went and spent their ways to force success.
Ronaldo, Kaka, Alonso, Benzema, followed by Ozil, Khedira and Di Maria the next summer.
Benzema was 35m, that’s a 150m player these days, out of France.
Ozil cost them 18m, that’s a 130m player out of Germany today.
Ronaldo cost then 94m, that’s a 250m+ player today.
Xabi Alonso was 40m, that’s a 130m player today.
Di Maria would cost like a Diomande.
I’m not even sure if these players of that quality are available today.
It was a different time, a different world, a different environment.
Even City wouldn’t be able to do what they did and have all that success that followed the fantastic signings like Aguero, David Silva, Yaya Toure, De Bruyne, you’re looking at over half a billy on these players alone in today’s market, forget it.
What’s unfortunate is that our “no vlaue in the market” period ironically coincided with one of the best periods of talent pool in football history, that’s where the mess started really.
I don’t think we’re in the financial situation or the environment to do it anymore, the current Premier League is highly competitive, we gave it a good go with trying to spend our ways to success in a much less competitive league environment between 2014 and 2016, we failed, badly.
I actually feel quite positive, I think the fact that we managed to finish third last season, after the unprecedented recruitment disaster that the ETH era will be defined by, and the coaching incompetence that the Amorim year will always be defined by, to be able to still be competitive after all this is a testament to how great the club is.
By consistently making cool decisions instead of goofball decisions we’ll eventually get to where the club needs to be, its just not a process you can fast forward, it will only set us back an another decade.
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Stole this from another topic.
I've been to many of Uniteds pre season matches in Scandinavia over the years, and this could be an example of the dwindling appeal of Man United. Twenty years ago we could've sold two stadiums worth of tickets. Tickets are pricy, yes, but if the product is interesting enough, it will get sold.
I hope we're a sleeping giant, but I fear it's more of a dying giant.
Even in the UK, through the 90s and 00s, kids in utd shirts were everywhere, now I never see them. It's all city, Chelsea, liverpool. Kids in the playground aren't wanting to support a laughing stock they will get teased over and I know people will say we don't need them glory hunting kids, but in 25 years that has a massive impact on our finances and pull.
The apprentices at work talk about us like we are on the level of a spurs, Newcastle or villa. They don't care what happened before ethey were born, they just see us now as a side who hopes to qualify for the cl and do well in a cup, not a side who wants to dominate
Nope. People are skint across Europe now especially in traditional "football heartlands" and anything more than £30 for a pre season friendly is too much. You'd have grounds 75% full with more reasonable prices.
I also think matches against Wrexham and Rosenborg are hardly gonna get people excited especially when in the case of Rosenborg, home fans were boycotting.
Again, this is partly down to the club's pricing and ticketing policies.
Especially in Greater Manchester, a generation of kids never developed a bond with the club because their families were outpriced. It's only gonna get worse with a new stadium.
This needs solving with or without the "glory hunting" fans.
You can't keep filling the ground with tourists and sponsors who would just as happily go and watch a match with city.
Re Liverpool, they've always been a big club and the only one comparable to us in the Premier League.
Given that most people choose a team to support around the age of 7-8, there is a generation for whom United has been largely irrelevant on the pitch and a big club solely on reputation. I believe this is a sleeping giant. Just as the generations who began to watch football in the early 1990s recognized Liverpool's impressive trophy haul, but didn't really regard them as big dogs on a more contemporary basis.
Based on what I've seen, I'm pessimistic about how long it will take for us to get back on track. We, like Liverpool, are a family club, so sentimentality and nostalgia, as well as a certain level of stubbornness, run through our veins. So, like Liverpool, I believe it will take a generational manager to turn this ship around: arrogant enough to take a poisoned chalice, quirky enough to be able to drown out all external noise, and charismatic enough to sell his style as the one the club was always supposed to play.
I'd like to believe in more strategic planning, but I'll need to see it first.
Based on what I've seen, I'm pessimistic about how long it will take for us to get back on track. We, like Liverpool, are a family club, so sentimentality and nostalgia, as well as a certain level of stubbornness, run through our veins. So, like Liverpool, I believe it will take a generational manager to turn this ship around: arrogant enough to take a poisoned chalice, quirky enough to be able to drown out all external noise, and charismatic enough to sell his style as the one the club was always supposed to play.
I'd like to believe in more strategic planning, but I'll need to see it first.
What Liverpool did well from the mid 1990s until probably Rodgers came in is they made the atmosphere at Anfield (as much of a myth as that is for most games) a key part of their identity. That attracted tourists and they also ensured Anfield until like 2010ish was relatively affordable for ordinary fans.
As I've sort of said above, we have taken our core support for granted and focused too much on fair weather fans. That might be a sensible policy until we reach the stage we're at now.
A great example of this is the Youth Cup semi-final last season. It was £1 back in 2022 for the final and we had 67,000 in the ground. We charged a tenner for that game last season and there was 3,000 there. A perfect chance to get local kids hooked disappeared.
All that being said, we are still the biggest club in England by far. We're the only club that could even get close to filling a 100k stadium if we're even slightly successful on the pitch.
I also think we need to move on from having a generational manager every 20/30 years. Football doesn't work like that anymore and we need to get used to probably having a new manager every 3-5 years (at least) even if we/they do well.
I started supporting United in the mid 70s, when I was very young, because they reached the 1976 FA cup final (my dad told me United would win. I would be a Soton fan now if he told me the other way round). Back then I didn't understand how the league worked, the FA cup final was 'glamorous' and pretty much the only live game on the TV. As I got older and obviously realised what the league was about, I could see that United barely ever competed for the title. By the mid 80s I thought I would never see United win the league. The highlights were winning the FA Cup and beating Liverpool in league/cup matches (which we often managed to do). And that was it. I pretty much feel like that again.
I get that to a degree, Ineos understand what is required to get back to challenging, but without overall control of the club, they're not going to achieve what they want unless we drop extremely lucky and produce 5 exceptional players from within the youth system, all at the same time. The Glazers clearly have no interest and are just waiting for the dividends to kick in again. And, let's be honest, Jim isn't going to be around forever, so what happens to the Ineos share when he passes?
I don't think we're quite as bad as some 'sleeping giants' like Everton, Leeds, Villa but we're not far off.
I get that to a degree, Ineos understand what is required to get back to challenging, but without overall control of the club, they're not going to achieve what they want unless we drop extremely lucky and produce 5 exceptional players from within the youth system, all at the same time. The Glazers clearly have no interest and are just waiting for the dividends to kick in again. And, let's be honest, Jim isn't going to be around forever, so what happens to the Ineos share when he passes?
I don't think we're quite as bad as some 'sleeping giants' like Everton, Leeds, Villa but we're not far off.
I just can't help feeling that CL qualification will be our downfall this season.
We really, really need to perform well in the league two seasons in a row, but we are to big of a club to prioritize it over CL. We have to put our best team out in the CL aswell as the league, and I don't think we have a squad capable of that while acutally performing well in both tournaments.
I know it will bring a lot of good things with it in terms of economy and club hierarchy, but the real effect will only ome if we manage to qualify again the seasons after.
We really, really need to perform well in the league two seasons in a row, but we are to big of a club to prioritize it over CL. We have to put our best team out in the CL aswell as the league, and I don't think we have a squad capable of that while acutally performing well in both tournaments.
I know it will bring a lot of good things with it in terms of economy and club hierarchy, but the real effect will only ome if we manage to qualify again the seasons after.
We're a dying giant.
INEOS and the Glazer's are killing this club with their lack of ambition.
INEOS and the Glazer's are killing this club with their lack of ambition.
We are the perfect warning of everything that's wrong with Leveraged Buyouts that's infected an increasing number of wonderful businesses.
That's what i worry about with the new stadium, appealing to day trippers who just want to watch pl in a decent stadium and couldn't actually care less whether they were watching us or anyone else. Even if they want to have that appeal for the stadium, the product on the pitch has to be good. People will fly halfway across the world to watch winning sides and stars; if we are midtable, not so much
We need to start playing well in both competitions and we better get used to it fast if we want to become relevant again.
We managed 2 consecutive decent seasons under Ole, finishing 3rd and 2nd and that led us where?
This sounds too much like wishful-thinking, I'm afraid.
But for it to have any impact in the long term, it must be steady and consistent qualification for the champions league. I really hate this project 2028, we need to be a steady top 4 club before challenging for the title again.
Arsenal and Liverpool have been shite for a long time too and they're doing just fine globally in 2026. We'll be alright.
No UCL semi final in 15 years is depressing stuff. No title challenge in 13 years. We have fallen behind our rivals, Arsenal have overtaken us and they hadn't won a title in 20 years. Whilst they get linked to Vinicius, we are trying to find bargain basement midfielders from the lower half of the league.
We will lose a generation of fans for sure. I see it when I take my son to football, the United shirts have dwindled down and there's a lot of City, Liverpool and Arsenal shirts
We will lose a generation of fans for sure. I see it when I take my son to football, the United shirts have dwindled down and there's a lot of City, Liverpool and Arsenal shirts
I always associate the phrase “sleeping giant” as a team that has the potential and resources to make it to the top, but for whatever reason has never put it all together. For example, here in America college sports are huge. We have several state universities that have money, prestige, a huge alumni base and, for whatever reason, stink year after year in either American football or basketball (or both).
In my view, United aren’t a sleeping giant by that definition. A fallen one, perhaps. Possibly resting. Hopefully, not dead.
In my view, United aren’t a sleeping giant by that definition. A fallen one, perhaps. Possibly resting. Hopefully, not dead.
A lot of nonsense in this thread.
People might see more city shirts out and about but for all their new "fans" they struggle to fill their stadium most weeks. It's easy to buy a kit and watch on TV, less easy to actually dedicate any actual time to watching the team live.
Chelsea might have had the best 20 years in their history but they still only have a 40,000 capacity stadium.
There's only three truly big clubs in England (and even then us and the scousers are well ahead of Arsenal).
We're probably one of the few sides in Europe (alongside Bayern, Arsenal and Liverpool) that regularly sells out a big stadium.
That might change in 20/30 years but we'll still have a massive support from across the world providing the club learns some lessons about ticket pricing and not treating fans like shit.
People might see more city shirts out and about but for all their new "fans" they struggle to fill their stadium most weeks. It's easy to buy a kit and watch on TV, less easy to actually dedicate any actual time to watching the team live.
Chelsea might have had the best 20 years in their history but they still only have a 40,000 capacity stadium.
There's only three truly big clubs in England (and even then us and the scousers are well ahead of Arsenal).
We're probably one of the few sides in Europe (alongside Bayern, Arsenal and Liverpool) that regularly sells out a big stadium.
That might change in 20/30 years but we'll still have a massive support from across the world providing the club learns some lessons about ticket pricing and not treating fans like shit.
That's not Manchester United, that's your wee wee!
Both very well said. Kids these days see us as a joke. As we get further and further away from the glory days, the average age of our supporters increases, and before long, we could be like Everton. And this is why we need to get back to winning as soon as possible. We’d remain one of the top dogs had we actually had caring owners.
It feels like we are becoming the new Everton.
They were a top team in the 80's before falling away and never recovering.
They were a top team in the 80's before falling away and never recovering.
People on here keep talking like given time we will definitely get back to the top as Arsenal and Liverpool did. There's no guarantees, we are just as likely to go another 20 years without a title as win one in that time. It's always just 3-5 years away without actually getting there. I was in my 20s the last time we won the league, I'm in my 40s now and honeslty wouldn't be surprised if I never see us win the league again
I was 14 when we last won the league. I might be 40 by the time we win it next.
Whether we are sleeping or awake, we are still a giant, and that will never change.
The Vini Jnr situation sums us up. We used to be the club players and agents would use to get themselves or their clients better contracts. Now it's Arsenal.
We're the very definition of one.
Especially as we are competing with so many other clubs.
I am happy with the transfers we've made this summer, but also it does smack of a mid table club that can't compete for the best players anymore.
It was embarrassing the way we tried to make it look like we were in for Anderson, even though City had the deal effectively wrapped up before Christmas.
Agreed. Finishing second was seen as unacceptable under Ferguson.
Our downfall was predicted when the Glazers were rumoured to be taken over. However, I am surprised at how accommodating the fanbase has been to the disappearance of our ambition be anything more than a 4th place team.
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I mean it’s pretty obvious that United are a “sleeping giant.” You can say the same for other old powerhouses like AC Milan, who similarly haven’t come close in the champions league since 2007 after dominating that competition for 3 decades. While they may have won the league in 2022, it was in a league that has crumbled and fallen behind. Sad seeing a giant like Milan fall behind as well.
Crazy thing is, Milan have been to a UCL semi final recently despite being a basket case of a club. We haven't been able to do that.
Ineos are doing what they do - running the club like it’s a factory they have taken over - keeping costs to a minimum while ensuring those at the top still get their huge salaries and bonuses.
It’s going to be more of the same, we will only invest properly when we miss out on Champions League football.
When we finish in the top four it will be a case of just making slight adjustments.
It’s amazing how many of our fans are delighted we are not signing top players so we don’t spend too much, as if it’s their own money.
We're just resting our eyes.
That’s crazy, I would never have thought that given their current state. Just makes it even worse for us!
United is a damsel in distress, jailed by a monster in a dark castle. Where is our knight in shining armor to come save us?
We’re definitely sleeping… or so it seems like in this transfer window
Have you seen the ticket prices? They are over 100 quid, for not even a full team and that has a big impact on sales.
3 signings could be wishful thinking but to the broader point in the OP, I think we have the money to spend .. financially we're not in some giant hole that we can't dig out of. I'm fine with us being disciplined and not giving the likes of Mateus Fernandes and Tonali 250k p/w.
Of course. It's insane. But, it's cheaper than flying to Manchester to watch a game at OT.
Unfortunately that's football today. Greedy SOBS.