Are we jinxed or is there a coaching issue at Manchester United

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Archie Knox was player manager at Forfar before joining Sir Alex at Aberdeen. He then became Dundee's manager, a role he covered for 2 and half years before joining Sir Alex again, this time round at United.

Prior of joining us Brian Kidd was a coach at Barrow and then he moved in management at Preston North End. He spent 3 years in the youth academy before becoming Man United's no 2

Steve Mclaren was youth and reserve coach with Oxford. In 1995 He became Jim Smith's no 2 at Derby were they gained EPL promotion during their first year there. Mclaren was considered one of the most promising and innovative no 2 at the time having introduced elements such as video analysis and sports psychology in the EPL.

Prior of joining us, Jimmy Ryan served as Luton's reserve manager and manager. He served as United's reserve manager for around a decade only to be given a first team coach role. He served as an assistant manager during two transitional periods ie between Kidd and Mclaren and between Mclaren and Queroz.

Carlos Queiroz - prior of joining us, Carlos had already various managerial roles including Portugal U17, Portugal U20 and Portugal, Sporting Lisbon, Metrostars, Nagoya Grampus Eight, the UAE national team and South Africa national team.

Walter Smith managed Rangers, Everton and Scotland prior joining us, winning a couple of SPL leagues in the process.

Prior of joining our centre of excellence in 1999, Phelan had already served as Megson's no 2 at Norwich, Blackpool and Stockport. After two years he was promoted as first team coach and in 2008 he was promoted as assistant manager following Carlos departure.

So we had 5 former managers (Knox, Smith, Carlos Q , Ryan and Kidd (Brian was a transitional manager)) and two people who already had experience as assistant managers (Mclaren and Phelan) prior joining us. We can safely say that all of these people have far better CVs then Carrick
It’s amazing how anyone ever gets a job in any industry if experience I’d the only criteria.
 

TheGodsInRed

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Sir Alex was a giant in football. There was no manager of his generation (LVG, Lippi, Capello, you name it) who had the experience and brilliance the guy had. Yet he kept adding new blood to his team, people like Mclaren, Carlos, Smith and Rene who were clearly at the cusp of being more then just assistant managers. Ole on the other hand has this coaching staff. Take Phelan out and the experience of this coaching staff drops to this.

Ole - Molde-Cardiff
Carrick - None
Mckenna - Spurs U18-United U18
Dempsey - a couple of Norwegian clubs, Cardiff
Pert - Vancouver, Cardiff, Bahrain, FC Baniyas, Coventry, Watford, Fulham,
Blanco - 1 year with Benfica
Mawson - Burnley U18
Clegg - Sunderland
Hawkins - Sheffield United, West Brom

It's clearly not good enough especially at a club who lacks a sporting director and a football CEO.
That’s a really poor list. There are coaches out there who have more experience than all of the above combined!

We have some of the best young talent in world football, it’s worrying to thing this talent will be wasted.
 

Bestietom

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https://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-united/mitarbeiter/verein/985

Sir Alex was a giant in football. There was no manager of his generation (LVG, Lippi, Capello, you name it) who had the experience and brilliance the guy had. Yet he kept adding new blood to his team, people like Mclaren, Carlos, Smith and Rene who were clearly at the cusp of being more then just assistant managers. Ole on the other hand has this coaching staff. Take Phelan out and the experience of this coaching staff drops to this.

Ole - Molde-Cardiff
Carrick - None
Mckenna - Spurs U18-United U18
Dempsey - a couple of Norwegian clubs, Cardiff
Pert - Vancouver, Cardiff, Bahrain, FC Baniyas, Coventry, Watford, Fulham,
Blanco - 1 year with Benfica
Mawson - Burnley U18
Clegg - Sunderland
Hawkins - Sheffield United, West Brom

It's clearly not good enough especially at a club who lacks a sporting director and a football CEO.
Not good enough for a club that is one of the biggest in the world.
 

Peter Freedom

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remember Daley blind goal from a set piece, mata assist? Under van gaal?
That was when we were coached. If van gaal had 2-3 better players in attack we would have been going ahead in all the games against park the bus teams and seeing victories out for fun.
Whole team knew what their jobs were etc.
Now it’s just shambles I love ole but he shouldn’t be our manager. Wait until champions league starts. That’s when season will truly turn miserable.
It doesn’t matter what player we sign. They will be average in our team.
 

Bilbo

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Archie Knox was player manager at Forfar before joining Sir Alex at Aberdeen. He then became Dundee's manager, a role he covered for 2 and half years before joining Sir Alex again, this time round at United.

Prior of joining us Brian Kidd was a coach at Barrow and then he moved in management at Preston North End. He spent 3 years in the youth academy before becoming Man United's no 2

Steve Mclaren was youth and reserve coach with Oxford. In 1995 He became Jim Smith's no 2 at Derby were they gained EPL promotion during their first year there. Mclaren was considered one of the most promising and innovative no 2 at the time having introduced elements such as video analysis and sports psychology in the EPL.

Prior of joining us, Jimmy Ryan served as Luton's reserve manager and manager. He served as United's reserve manager for around a decade only to be given a first team coach role. He served as an assistant manager during two transitional periods ie between Kidd and Mclaren and between Mclaren and Queroz.

Carlos Queiroz - prior of joining us, Carlos had already various managerial roles including Portugal U17, Portugal U20 and Portugal, Sporting Lisbon, Metrostars, Nagoya Grampus Eight, the UAE national team and South Africa national team.

Walter Smith managed Rangers, Everton and Scotland prior joining us, winning a couple of SPL leagues in the process.

Prior of joining our centre of excellence in 1999, Phelan had already served as Megson's no 2 at Norwich, Blackpool and Stockport. After two years he was promoted as first team coach and in 2008 he was promoted as assistant manager following Carlos departure.

So we had 5 former managers (Knox, Smith, Carlos Q , Ryan and Kidd (Brian was a transitional manager)) and two people who already had experience as assistant managers (Mclaren and Phelan) prior joining us. We can safely say that all of these people have far better CVs then Carrick
Its easier to have a better CV than somebody in his first coaching role, but it doesn't mean that any of those staff came from blue chip clubs, or had any success as managers in their own right, which seems to be the point you're making about the current lot.

Its a silly point to even discuss really. We dont see our training sessions and we never will.
 

Bilbo

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remember Daley blind goal from a set piece, mata assist? Under van gaal?
That was when we were coached. If van gaal had 2-3 better players in attack we would have been going ahead in all the games against park the bus teams and seeing victories out for fun.
Whole team knew what their jobs were etc.
Now it’s just shambles I love ole but he shouldn’t be our manager. Wait until champions league starts. That’s when season will truly turn miserable.
It doesn’t matter what player we sign. They will be average in our team.
We looked massively over coached under Van Gaal IMO. Players scared to express themselves and carrying too many instructions. It clicked for a few games but was never a pathway to success
 

Bilbo

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That’s a really poor list. There are coaches out there who have more experience than all of the above combined!

We have some of the best young talent in world football, it’s worrying to thing this talent will be wasted.
There is no basis for that argument though. Greenwood has come on very well. Rashford was sparkling until his injury. Williams has emerged. Mengi on the cusp. I think McTominay will become a fine player.

Take away the Ole bias and just look at what is happening and there are no real reasons to be concerned.
 

golden_blunder

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There is no basis for that argument though. Greenwood has come on very well. Rashford was sparkling until his injury. Williams has emerged. Mengi on the cusp. I think McTominay will become a fine player.

Take away the Ole bias and just look at what is happening and there are no real reasons to be concerned.
I think ole is excellent at developing young players

but managing the first team the jury is still out.
 

devilish

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Its easier to have a better CV than somebody in his first coaching role, but it doesn't mean that any of those staff came from blue chip clubs, or had any success as managers in their own right, which seems to be the point you're making about the current lot.

Its a silly point to even discuss really. We dont see our training sessions and we never will.
My initial point was to highlight the lack of experience of our coaching staff which is quite concerning considering that

a- our CEO hardly knows anything about football
b- we lack a sporting director and a head of recruitment
c- our manager and our head of first team development are hardly experienced people themselves

In few words it seems that everyone seem to be getting on the job training.

For all I know we're lead by Pep Guardiola's level of football prodigies who are so natural in their jobs that experience is somehow redundant for them. Somehow it doesn't feel like that though. The club seem to walk from one blunder to another, our tactics feel quite naive at times, new signing's performance seem to tank few months after our coaches had the chance to work with them while players who leave us seem to have a second lease of life (Lukaku, Sanchez, Young etc). You have to concede that Sir Alex surrounded himself with far more experience then Ole does, which is quite ironic really.
 

Offside

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We got so big that anything and anybody that was to follow cannot live with such expectation and scrutiny.
 

TheGodsInRed

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There is no basis for that argument though. Greenwood has come on very well. Rashford was sparkling until his injury. Williams has emerged. Mengi on the cusp. I think McTominay will become a fine player.

Take away the Ole bias and just look at what is happening and there are no real reasons to be concerned.
I'm not concerned about the academy development, as you have pointed out, it is clearly working well, it's more when they get in the first team.

2 years ago I thought Rashford, Martial and Pogba would be world class by now. I don't see a great deal of improvement.
 

RedCoffee

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We said it could never happen but we are 100% the new Liverpool.
Manager after manager, big player after big player, year after year drifting by. Unfortunately the players and managers just can't cope with the legacy and stature of the club. It's very sad but until we sort out the mentality and psychology from the top down we are stuck.
 
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My initial point was to highlight the lack of experience of our coaching staff which is quite concerning considering that

a- our CEO hardly knows anything about football
b- we lack a sporting director and a head of recruitment
c- our manager and our head of first team development are hardly experienced people themselves

In few words it seems that everyone seem to be getting on the job training.

For all I know we're lead by Pep Guardiola's level of football prodigies who are so natural in their jobs that experience is somehow redundant for them. Somehow it doesn't feel like that though. The club seem to walk from one blunder to another, our tactics feel quite naive at times, new signing's performance seem to tank few months after our coaches had the chance to work with them while players who leave us seem to have a second lease of life (Lukaku, Sanchez, Young etc). You have to concede that Sir Alex surrounded himself with far more experience then Ole does, which is quite ironic really.
bloody hell, using the sales of Lukaku, Young and Sanchez to bash the club.

Lukaku, was never good enough to be a United striker, is a flat track bully, and will never be good enough.

Sanchez is one of the worst players in our history, and doing exactly lighting things up.

Ashley Young, good player we did well for us, but is 34!

I don’t even know why I’m replying, it’s utterly ridiculous.
 

Foxbatt

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It’s amazing how anyone ever gets a job in any industry if experience I’d the only criteria.
Don't be ruddy ridiculous. Anyone can get a job at the bottom of the ladder. You wouldn't want a person with a private person license to try and fly an Airbus A 380?
 
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Don't be ruddy ridiculous. Anyone can get a job at the bottom of the ladder. You wouldn't want a person with a private person license to try and fly an Airbus A 380?
then why don’t we just hire Harry Redknapp or Sam Allerdyce as they have loads of experience?

so do we now compare every job to being a pilot or a brain surgeon?

talented people with new ideas, new energy. Innovation etc often get jobs ahead of people with experience.
 

Bilbo

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My initial point was to highlight the lack of experience of our coaching staff which is quite concerning considering that

a- our CEO hardly knows anything about football
b- we lack a sporting director and a head of recruitment
c- our manager and our head of first team development are hardly experienced people themselves

In few words it seems that everyone seem to be getting on the job training.

For all I know we're lead by Pep Guardiola's level of football prodigies who are so natural in their jobs that experience is somehow redundant for them. Somehow it doesn't feel like that though. The club seem to walk from one blunder to another, our tactics feel quite naive at times, new signing's performance seem to tank few months after our coaches had the chance to work with them while players who leave us seem to have a second lease of life (Lukaku, Sanchez, Young etc). You have to concede that Sir Alex surrounded himself with far more experience then Ole does, which is quite ironic really.
Why are we going from one blunder to another though? Why are football fans so prone to making everything so extreme?

Weve just come off a rather decent season under the circumstances, yet all of this has been consigned to the history books by so many of our fans after just 3 further league matches. It certainly doesn't feel like 'one blunder to another' to me. It feels like a club trying to build a squad in difficult circumstances.

To your point - yes we do have an inexperienced coaching team, but none of the Ferguson staff you listed had much experience at the top level of the game either, and nobody ever had any concerns about it back then.

I think Ole is a much smarter guy than many give him credit for. He has spent time with a number of top managers in the past, and studied their processes - not to mention his years under Ferguson. He has more than held his own in our matches against his peers so far. I cant imagine that he wouldn't have very carefully selected his staff and would be quick to replace them if he saw that things weren't as they should be.
 

Bilbo

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I'm not concerned about the academy development, as you have pointed out, it is clearly working well, it's more when they get in the first team.

2 years ago I thought Rashford, Martial and Pogba would be world class by now. I don't see a great deal of improvement.
Players development is rarely a straight line. Rashford and Martial had their best seasons last season IMO, and for me Pogba just doesnt have the drive or the football brain to be truly world class. He needs to be sold.
 

devilish

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Why are we going from one blunder to another though? Why are football fans so prone to making everything so extreme?

Weve just come off a rather decent season under the circumstances, yet all of this has been consigned to the history books by so many of our fans after just 3 further league matches. It certainly doesn't feel like 'one blunder to another' to me. It feels like a club trying to build a squad in difficult circumstances.

To your point - yes we do have an inexperienced coaching team, but none of the Ferguson staff you listed had much experience at the top level of the game either, and nobody ever had any concerns about it back then.

I think Ole is a much smarter guy than many give him credit for. He has spent time with a number of top managers in the past, and studied their processes - not to mention his years under Ferguson. He has more than held his own in our matches against his peers so far. I cant imagine that he wouldn't have very carefully selected his staff and would be quick to replace them if he saw that things weren't as they should be.
Recruitment is bad, tactics seem basic, new signings seem to do well when we sign them only for their performance to plummet once our coaches had time to work with them etc. Also note that we had 5 former managers as Sir Alex's no 2 with Carlos Querioz, Walter Smith and Archie Knox being far more experienced then most of our coaches bar Phelan. That's quite concerning considering that Ole need to surround himself with far more experience then Sir Alex ever did.
 

devilish

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bloody hell, using the sales of Lukaku, Young and Sanchez to bash the club.

Lukaku, was never good enough to be a United striker, is a flat track bully, and will never be good enough.

Sanchez is one of the worst players in our history, and doing exactly lighting things up.

Ashley Young, good player we did well for us, but is 34!

I don’t even know why I’m replying, it’s utterly ridiculous.
then I suggest you don't reply to posts that you can't be bothered to reply to. That's what I am doing with some of your posts for example.
 

tob

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Wonder why René Meulensteen hasn't been called up. From what I've seen, he seems quite keen on re-joining.
I was actually surprised when Phelan got the call, but not René.
 

AneRu

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I don't think its just a coaching issue at United its more of a general rot that's set in the club. We look like we are stuck in a rut and no matter which player or manager we bring in it just feels like its only a matter of time before the negative vibe eating up the club drags them down to its level.

I am not the biggest fan of AWB and Maguire but for various reasons both look the shadow of players we brought in last season. Same thing happened with players like Mata, in his prime, or other earlier signings. Their weaknesses are just magnified to the point where they are completely destroyed mentally and end up looking like jokes that they can't even attract interest from other clubs.

I think that the pressure of the platform like United visa vis the level of talent our players have and the expectations from fans is just too daunting. I think there is need for more focus on the mental health of our players and coaching staff. Wasn't it Jones that turned down a testimonial for fear of ridicule? That ought to have raised eyebrows more.
 

pocco

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Wonder why René Meulensteen hasn't been called up. From what I've seen, he seems quite keen on re-joining.
I was actually surprised when Phelan got the call, but not René.
My memory of it all is a bit hazy but I'm sure he said some things against the club after he left. I still remember the time the caf had a hard on over him and thought he could manage us, or something like that. They quickly shut up after his time at Fulham
 

Bilbo

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Recruitment is bad, tactics seem basic, new signings seem to do well when we sign them only for their performance to plummet once our coaches had time to work with them etc. Also note that we had 5 former managers as Sir Alex's no 2 with Carlos Querioz, Walter Smith and Archie Knox being far more experienced then most of our coaches bar Phelan. That's quite concerning considering that Ole need to surround himself with far more experience then Sir Alex ever did.
Why are our tactics basic? I've read many articles from people more knowledgeable than myself who have described in great detail the tweaks and adjustments than Ole made during last season. They seemed far from basic, and as I said Ole has more than held his own against his peers so far.

Fans love to talk about coaching and patterns of play without really having the right level of understanding to do so. Thats not me belittling people. We just don't see enough of what happens to make a sound judgement. I just think we are still waist deep in the process of actually building this squad. This is a young squad in comparison to many, and they are very likely to improve over time, both organically and with new additions.

Liverpool and City look like well oiled machines, but they are much further along the conveyor belt than we are, and even with truly great managers it took them time to get there. Their key players have played together a lot longer than ours have, so they have a much better natural rhythm and understanding than we possibly could, and those managers have had more time to recruit the right players for their vision.
 

devilish

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Why are our tactics basic? I've read many articles from people more knowledgeable than myself who have described in great detail the tweaks and adjustments than Ole made during last season. They seemed far from basic, and as I said Ole has more than held his own against his peers so far.

Fans love to talk about coaching and patterns of play without really having the right level of understanding to do so. Thats not me belittling people. We just don't see enough of what happens to make a sound judgement. I just think we are still waist deep in the process of actually building this squad. This is a young squad in comparison to many, and they are very likely to improve over time, both organically and with new additions.

Liverpool and City look like well oiled machines, but they are much further along the conveyor belt than we are, and even with truly great managers it took them time to get there. Their key players have played together a lot longer than ours have, so they have a much better natural rhythm and understanding than we possibly could, and those managers have had more time to recruit the right players for their vision.
Would you care sharing some of those articles?

In my opinion his tactics seem quite basic and easy to counter. For example I fail to understand why he keeps playing Pogba and Matic as the defensive base of a 4-2-3-1. Matic is slow and static while Pogba is a liability defensive wise. The latter had stated that himself. Also some of the signings made by Ole bothered to the ridiculous. For example I've yet to understand why we had spent 80m on a slow (and average) CB to fit inside our central defensive core especially since we play with a high line. DDG doesn't leave his line even if his own life depends on it while Lindelof AND Matic are almost as slow as Maguire is. That's probably the slowest central defensive core I've ever saw in the EPL.
 

He'sRaldo

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Why are our tactics basic? I've read many articles from people more knowledgeable than myself who have described in great detail the tweaks and adjustments than Ole made during last season. They seemed far from basic, and as I said Ole has more than held his own against his peers so far.

Fans love to talk about coaching and patterns of play without really having the right level of understanding to do so. Thats not me belittling people. We just don't see enough of what happens to make a sound judgement. I just think we are still waist deep in the process of actually building this squad. This is a young squad in comparison to many, and they are very likely to improve over time, both organically and with new additions.

Liverpool and City look like well oiled machines, but they are much further along the conveyor belt than we are, and even with truly great managers it took them time to get there. Their key players have played together a lot longer than ours have, so they have a much better natural rhythm and understanding than we possibly could, and those managers have had more time to recruit the right players for their vision.
If you have mastered a craft, you understand the amount of difference between a person at the very top of the craft vs more average person. Even if the average person might seem to an unskilled person to be 'good' at that craft.

It's the same with Ole. He might have very good tactics for other levels, but in the PL the level of management is literally best in the world level. That's what makes Ole's tactics 'basic' by comparison.
 

tob

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My memory of it all is a bit hazy but I'm sure he said some things against the club after he left. I still remember the time the caf had a hard on over him and thought he could manage us, or something like that. They quickly shut up after his time at Fulham
Now that you've mentioned it, I somehow have the same feeling that I've read something like that earlier, probably here on the caf.
My view of René was that he was more of a player-improvement kind of coach. Developing players.
 

The_Midfielder

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Would you care sharing some of those articles?

In my opinion his tactics seem quite basic and easy to counter. For example I fail to understand why he keeps playing Pogba and Matic as the defensive base of a 4-2-3-1. Matic is slow and static while Pogba is a liability defensive wise. The latter had stated that himself. Also some of the signings made by Ole bothered to the ridiculous. For example I've yet to understand why we had spent 80m on a slow (and average) CB to fit inside our central defensive core especially since we play with a high line. DDG doesn't leave his line even if his own life depends on it while Lindelof AND Matic are almost as slow as Maguire is. That's probably the slowest central defensive core I've ever saw in the EPL.
Look up defenders at other top 6 teams .. Harry Maguire is better than most of them ...he is going through a bad patch.. let's support him ..80M or 100M..
 

Bilbo

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Would you care sharing some of those articles?

In my opinion his tactics seem quite basic and easy to counter. For example I fail to understand why he keeps playing Pogba and Matic as the defensive base of a 4-2-3-1. Matic is slow and static while Pogba is a liability defensive wise. The latter had stated that himself. Also some of the signings made by Ole bothered to the ridiculous. For example I've yet to understand why we had spent 80m on a slow (and average) CB to fit inside our central defensive core especially since we play with a high line. DDG doesn't leave his line even if his own life depends on it while Lindelof AND Matic are almost as slow as Maguire is. That's probably the slowest central defensive core I've ever saw in the EPL.
If I can find them ill point you in the right direction.

I actually agree with you about Pogba and Matic. I think we'll see that combination used far less frequently in coming months.

Defensively I think we were okay for the majority of last season. 36 goals conceded is not a bad return, but again I don't think that our current pairing have a long shelf life. Itll be Maguire + 1 in all likelihood, and perhaps the club feel that Axel and/or Mengi could be the answer to those issues. Who knows.

Its all part of the process of building a team. Pogba/Matic/Bruno looks an outstanding midfield on paper. It has a bit of everything. Over time though I dont think it works. For me Oles season will live and die on him getting the midfield balance right.
 

Bilbo

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If you have mastered a craft, you understand the amount of difference between a person at the very top of the craft vs more average person. Even if the average person might seem to an unskilled person to be 'good' at that craft.

It's the same with Ole. He might have very good tactics for other levels, but in the PL the level of management is literally best in the world level. That's what makes Ole's tactics 'basic' by comparison.
And yet our results against the best teams in our league so far have been very good. How do you explain that? There's enough of a sample size there to rule out a freak run of luck.
 

Resch

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Its a coaching issue! Just one working formation, no plan b, no inspiration from the manager. We are outclassed tactical wise too often. Ole has great players, this talent is not used the right way. He was saved by the Bruno and the talent of the team, not because he is a great coach. Why is a 4-2-3-1 the formation, it is so predictable....
 

tob

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Would you care sharing some of those articles?

In my opinion his tactics seem quite basic and easy to counter. For example I fail to understand why he keeps playing Pogba and Matic as the defensive base of a 4-2-3-1. Matic is slow and static while Pogba is a liability defensive wise. The latter had stated that himself. Also some of the signings made by Ole bothered to the ridiculous. For example I've yet to understand why we had spent 80m on a slow (and average) CB to fit inside our central defensive core especially since we play with a high line. DDG doesn't leave his line even if his own life depends on it while Lindelof AND Matic are almost as slow as Maguire is. That's probably the slowest central defensive core I've ever saw in the EPL.
Also find that interesting.
The way I see it, if you want to play with a high line, you'd want a back line that are good one versus one. I mean, that's bound to happen when you have most of the possession and play higher up the pitch. I would rate wan-Bissaka and Shaw as being good one v one (although both has been out of form lately), but they're often higher up when we get countered on. The same goes for playing out from the back. Maguire and Lindelöf, at times, have a good pass in them, but they're not particularly comfortable on the ball when being pressed. And they're not mobile enough to create space for others. Matic and Pogba seems comfortable on the ball, but both are to slow and take to many touches. Look at the difference when Carrick or Scholes used to receive the ball and get pressed. They both knew where the press was coming from and they already knew what to do with the ball. After they'd passed the ball on, they would moved into a new position, ready to receive the ball again.
 

devilish

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If I can find them ill point you in the right direction.

I actually agree with you about Pogba and Matic. I think we'll see that combination used far less frequently in coming months.

Defensively I think we were okay for the majority of last season. 36 goals conceded is not a bad return, but again I don't think that our current pairing have a long shelf life. Itll be Maguire + 1 in all likelihood, and perhaps the club feel that Axel and/or Mengi could be the answer to those issues. Who knows.

Its all part of the process of building a team. Pogba/Matic/Bruno looks an outstanding midfield on paper. It has a bit of everything. Over time though I dont think it works. For me Oles season will live and die on him getting the midfield balance right.
We conceded far less goals then the season before which is understandable considering all the circus surrounding Mou losing the dressing room and his dismissal. However we conceded more goals last season then during the 2017-2018 season and the 2016-2017 season. Which really isn't that great considering we spent 130m on 2 defenders who offer little to nothing in terms of creativity. But there's more to it. Ole likes to play a high line. That makes sense as teams are happy to see us defend deep and get a draw against us.. Having said that a high line require defenders to be quick else they risk to be caught on a quick counter with their proverbial pants down. Which makes Ole's decision to get Maguire and rely on Lindelof as baffling at best. Having DDG in goal, Maguire and Lindelof as our CB pair and Matic in front of them is asking for trouble. Regarding CM, Matic is too slow and static to play in a 4-2-3-1 system especially if partnered with someone like Pogba whose, by his own admission, a liability in terms of defending. Pogba might be able to cover the role with someone like Kante whose a completely different player to what Matic is.

Finally if Ole truly expected the club to buy Sancho, Grealish and Upamecano during this transfer window then he's really naïve. There's no way that United would pay a 200m+ bill in the middle of a pandemic especially after already spending some 200m in Maguire, AWB, James and Bruno. I'd expect that mistake from a johnny foreigner (not in terms of nationality but in terms of not knowing how United operate). These people might be duped to think that United have endless resources. People who know the club should know better. We fans know better and we had never worked for Manchester United.
 

Bilbo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
10,379
We conceded far less goals then the season before which is understandable considering all the circus surrounding Mou losing the dressing room and his dismissal. However we conceded more goals last season then during the 2017-2018 season and the 2016-2017 season. Which really isn't that great considering we spent 130m on 2 defenders who offer little to nothing in terms of creativity. But there's more to it. Ole likes to play a high line. That makes sense as teams are happy to see us defend deep and get a draw against us.. Having said that a high line require defenders to be quick else they risk to be caught on a quick counter with their proverbial pants down. Which makes Ole's decision to get Maguire and rely on Lindelof as baffling at best. Having DDG in goal, Maguire and Lindelof as our CB pair and Matic in front of them is asking for trouble. Regarding CM, Matic is too slow and static to play in a 4-2-3-1 system especially if partnered with someone like Pogba whose, by his own admission, a liability in terms of defending. Pogba might be able to cover the role with someone like Kante whose a completely different player to what Matic is.

Finally if Ole truly expected the club to buy Sancho, Grealish and Upamecano during this transfer window then he's really naïve. There's no way that United would pay a 200m+ bill in the middle of a pandemic especially after already spending some 200m in Maguire, AWB, James and Bruno. I'd expect that mistake from a johnny foreigner (not in terms of nationality but in terms of not knowing how United operate). These people might be duped to think that United have endless resources. People who know the club should know better. We fans know better and we had never worked for Manchester United.
You're talking all about team selection and nothing about tactics. That's kind of the point here. Ole doesn't like to play a high line he just likes the team to push up and be compact when we have the ball. That's standard.

How do you know what Ole expected of the club this summer? You're making up a scenario and then calling someone naive for expecting it to happen.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
53,458
Look up defenders at other top 6 teams .. Harry Maguire is better than most of them ...he is going through a bad patch.. let's support him ..80M or 100M..
I was against Maguire's signing from day 1. I thought that he was ridiculously expensive, he was overrated and he lacked the pace to do well with United. However I do believe that he's a better CB then this and would do good IF he played according to his strengths (ie in a deep line). Which really makes Ole's giving the nod to this signing a bit baffling really. Maguire lacks the pace to play in a high line and this weakness will be further exposed if he happens to be partnered with another slow CB, a DM that lack pace as well, a CM who is a defensive liability and a goalkeeper who would rather stay in his small box then join a threesome with Wanda Nara and Gigi Hadid.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
53,458
You're talking all about team selection and nothing about tactics. That's kind of the point here. Ole doesn't like to play a high line he just likes the team to push up and be compact when we have the ball. That's standard.

How do you know what Ole expected of the club this summer? You're making up a scenario and then calling someone naive for expecting it to happen.
Team selection and tactics work with one another though. A manager has to adapt his tactics to the players he got. If Ole wanted his team to push forward then he should have signed CBs who have the pace not to be caught with their proverbial pants down during a quick counter. That's certainly can't be done with Lindelof and Maguire.

Regaroding your second sentence you might have failed to see the word IF