Are we lacking mental strength?
- Thread starter horsechoker
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'Martial wasnt able to meg the whole team and score a bicycle kick today'
'yeah well thats a reflection of his manager, the question is - is Ole getting old?'
'yeah well thats a reflection of his manager, the question is - is Ole getting old?'
How many different players are we going to call bottlers 
Did we have Smalling and Jones back?
Did we have Smalling and Jones back?
Pogba and Bruno won with their previous clubs beside their national teams.
Would mental strength be needed to turn a 14 point deficit to 0 points On Leicester ?
No, we lacked an 11th man for the corner at the end due to circumstance.
If the players lacked mental strength we’d have lost today after our poor start.
If the players lacked mental strength we’d have lost today after our poor start.
It’s worrying that this happens all the time in the race for the fecking top 4. We’re talking about the places this team could go ie. winning league titles but we’ve got no chance with this mentality never mind about getting the quality in. Imagine if we had to win to go top of the league?
The last 20 minutes to be was pure panic. We were completely dominated and lost all composure and aggression. We do it every single time we have the chance to move into the top 4 with crazy consistency.
How do we get over this? We need a Sheffield Wednesday 1993 moment where in the process of bottling it we somehow find a way to win and then believe from then on we will always find a way to win.
The last 20 minutes to be was pure panic. We were completely dominated and lost all composure and aggression. We do it every single time we have the chance to move into the top 4 with crazy consistency.
How do we get over this? We need a Sheffield Wednesday 1993 moment where in the process of bottling it we somehow find a way to win and then believe from then on we will always find a way to win.
It's not "bottle"...we've suddenly gotten miles better at the crucial time of the season and also put in our best performances against the best sides.
It's the fact we haven't been able to defend set pieces or crosses all season and were also under pressure the entire game because we had no midfield. Better game management from the bench and the same set of players would have seen that game out comfortably.
It's not a surprise at this point that we can't sit back and defend and get away with it. We haven't gotten away with it all season and even in games where we have won quite a few times we've gotten lucky with this where VAR or poor finishing has bailed us out.
It's the fact we haven't been able to defend set pieces or crosses all season and were also under pressure the entire game because we had no midfield. Better game management from the bench and the same set of players would have seen that game out comfortably.
It's not a surprise at this point that we can't sit back and defend and get away with it. We haven't gotten away with it all season and even in games where we have won quite a few times we've gotten lucky with this where VAR or poor finishing has bailed us out.
Yeah but they are not exactly Keane are they ? We need someone who can both lead by example and shake the rest of the team up when they need it otherwise these dropped points will happen too much
No water is not wet.
Need a top class centreback to partner maguire. Preferably an absolute cnut who is vocal and is physically dominant. Tired of getting outmuscled in set piece situations time and time again. Cost us dearly today. Lindelöf is too weak and panicky.
The fact we keep missing our chance to break into the top four is a clear sign we are lacking mentally . No point doing well to get into an opportunity if we are always going to choke when it really matters.
We need leadership on the pitch and we dont have it
We need leadership on the pitch and we dont have it
They're not, I'm just saying they know how to win stuff at least. Agree with your point though.
A worrying debate, this is. We know we’re not strong enough yet to go on a 9-10 game winning streak.
One of the top footballers on the planet got caught in possession today, leading to a goal. Lindelof didn’t do his job, leading to another goal. You can’t draw a general “mental strength” conclusion from that. Yes, we threw away two points but this happens to even the best of clubs, which we are not yet.
One of the top footballers on the planet got caught in possession today, leading to a goal. Lindelof didn’t do his job, leading to another goal. You can’t draw a general “mental strength” conclusion from that. Yes, we threw away two points but this happens to even the best of clubs, which we are not yet.
It's not weird that our team lacks mental strength, really. It's nothing to be ashamed of. It does take time to build a winning team, you have to be able to convince the team that they are indeed capable of winning.
It's kind of a paradox, to become a winner you have to win something. And at this level there are fine margins, one slip up and you're done. Evrry winning team has a bit of luck aswell.
Just look at Liverpool, the season after they win the Champions League they go one and win the Premier League. They could have bottled it several times this season but were extremely lucky to keep going and getting undeserved points. They also have a squad in their prime, while we have a very young squad, a less mature squad who have won practically nothing together. I think with time our team will get stronger and stronger mentally.
It's kind of a paradox, to become a winner you have to win something. And at this level there are fine margins, one slip up and you're done. Evrry winning team has a bit of luck aswell.
Just look at Liverpool, the season after they win the Champions League they go one and win the Premier League. They could have bottled it several times this season but were extremely lucky to keep going and getting undeserved points. They also have a squad in their prime, while we have a very young squad, a less mature squad who have won practically nothing together. I think with time our team will get stronger and stronger mentally.
From what I saw tonight, its genuine on the field leadership we're missing.
Who in Liverpools team had won a trophy before the last few years?
I think it's a bit of an overreaction in fairness, we've been playing good football and winning crucial games for a while now. Every game to even get us into this position have been must win games.
We dress ourselves down and go to Palace on Wednesday, who have lost 5 on the bounce and look abysmal. If we win emphatically then the impetus is back with us again. I think the key could be resting key players in the FA Cup, as West Ham seem to have found a bit of form.
We dress ourselves down and go to Palace on Wednesday, who have lost 5 on the bounce and look abysmal. If we win emphatically then the impetus is back with us again. I think the key could be resting key players in the FA Cup, as West Ham seem to have found a bit of form.
We have been lacking mental toughness for 7 years now. We just can't perform under pressure. That's the problem with our team, not just players, everyone.
No I don’t think so. Look at how we responded after we gave them the opening goal. Immediately shredded them for two.
It was more of just a bad performance from our midfield that cost us. Control the midfield and you control the tempo of the game. We didn’t do that well enough and it turned into an end to end affair when it didn’t have to be. Then at the end we were just trying to set up shop for the last 10 minutes, got unlucky with an injury, and defended a corner poorly with basically the last kick of the game.
I know the Caf is going to burn for the next few days because of the circumstance of how we dropped points, but the bottom line is it was a bad day at the office against a tough team and we still probably should have won 3 or 4-1.
Also think Matic needs to sit for the next game. He’s looked off the pace the past couple games and the last thing we need is him at his worst for this final stretch.
It was more of just a bad performance from our midfield that cost us. Control the midfield and you control the tempo of the game. We didn’t do that well enough and it turned into an end to end affair when it didn’t have to be. Then at the end we were just trying to set up shop for the last 10 minutes, got unlucky with an injury, and defended a corner poorly with basically the last kick of the game.
I know the Caf is going to burn for the next few days because of the circumstance of how we dropped points, but the bottom line is it was a bad day at the office against a tough team and we still probably should have won 3 or 4-1.
Also think Matic needs to sit for the next game. He’s looked off the pace the past couple games and the last thing we need is him at his worst for this final stretch.
I mean LVG and Jose were pretty bad too in the same regard.
Jose's mental strength into teams has all but evaporated and Van Gaal was well, Van Gaal.
Yeah I'd say
They don't fight enough in these games and it always looks like they are leggy against a motivated opposition. The game finishes with a whimper, and it looks like the players don't know what hit them.
Today, we were a bit like Arsenal a few years back. We expected the game and points to just fall in our lap without a fight because we've been playing some good football.
They don't fight enough in these games and it always looks like they are leggy against a motivated opposition. The game finishes with a whimper, and it looks like the players don't know what hit them.
Today, we were a bit like Arsenal a few years back. We expected the game and points to just fall in our lap without a fight because we've been playing some good football.
Still on for a Champions League spot, Europa League and FA cup wins; our unbeaten run continues with 13/15 points taken in last 5 games at the business end of the season. What a glorious run from Marital tonight, and that save from De Gea too! Pity we were screwed by substitution rules, the Shaw injury etc, and having to play such a physically brutal side when your first eleven have played five games in quick succession, due to lack of quality in squad depth. We still only dropped the points in the last few seconds. Like I said; still on course for Champions League and silverware, so too early to say we lack mental strength in my opinion.
Nah we looked knackered tonight and were unfortunate with the injuries. We lack a quality squad and there is a lot of work to do still if we want to close the gap to the top teams which is why talk of a title challenge is premature as it stands.
Last night's result was nothing to do with mental strength, we were just a bit unluckily at the end.
Had we held on with 10 men and won the game after coming back from a goal down, we'd all be talking about how resistant the team is, how we're now looking like a proper team, how we can still win when not playing well etc.
The acid test is now Crystal Palace, we'll learn far more about the team from that game than last night.
Had we held on with 10 men and won the game after coming back from a goal down, we'd all be talking about how resistant the team is, how we're now looking like a proper team, how we can still win when not playing well etc.
The acid test is now Crystal Palace, we'll learn far more about the team from that game than last night.
Two ways of looking at it
1- it was a 96th minute equaliser so had it not been for that we'd have won so it's not like we didn't have the mental strength to get a lead in the first place. Previous years we'd of gone behind and only got a 1-1 or it would have been a 0-0
The other way of looking at it though is
2- why did we sit on a fragile lead? You can question the mental strength of not killing the game off and handing the initiative to Southampton (we had 48% possession last night). We've also had a tendency to concede late goals this season - Palace (h), Sheffield United (a) almost one away to Everton before VAR ruled it out this is something that's very concerning
Only at the end of the season will we know how damaging last night was
1- it was a 96th minute equaliser so had it not been for that we'd have won so it's not like we didn't have the mental strength to get a lead in the first place. Previous years we'd of gone behind and only got a 1-1 or it would have been a 0-0
The other way of looking at it though is
2- why did we sit on a fragile lead? You can question the mental strength of not killing the game off and handing the initiative to Southampton (we had 48% possession last night). We've also had a tendency to concede late goals this season - Palace (h), Sheffield United (a) almost one away to Everton before VAR ruled it out this is something that's very concerning
Only at the end of the season will we know how damaging last night was
We took off our potential leaders in Pogba and Fernandes. They weren't having good games but they are match winners. Maguire, De Gea and Matic are our other leaders but we didn't do enough in attack for us to get that third goal when we needed it.
Rashford is on his way to becoming a leader, maybe Martial too.
I think this squad has showed alot of strength to go on this run.
Going a goal down vs Spurs, Bono and also Southampton a year ago we more than likely lose those games.
We still need to improve but the frailty is going as we improve the squad. Hopefully a few more additions help further.
I expect us to bounce back after the draw
Going a goal down vs Spurs, Bono and also Southampton a year ago we more than likely lose those games.
We still need to improve but the frailty is going as we improve the squad. Hopefully a few more additions help further.
I expect us to bounce back after the draw
Nah. Southampton are a hard pressing, physical team capable of getting a result against good opposition. We had plenty of good chances and got 2 goals. If anything we were unlucky today (injuries to Shaw & Williams, red not given to Romeu) on top of instances of poor defending/focus.
Even now we didn't lose, something that hasn't happened in 18 games, including games against City x2, Wolves, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs and Sheffield. Hardly speaks of poor mentality.
Even now we didn't lose, something that hasn't happened in 18 games, including games against City x2, Wolves, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs and Sheffield. Hardly speaks of poor mentality.
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We've played almost every game since restart with the same starting XI.
Fatigue has caught up to us, we need to rotate more and trust our backups more.
I saw people posting that our backups in McT & Fred are way too bad for challenging, forgetting that they were crucial in early to mid season when they played every game and established themselves.
Ole must find that sweetspot of rotating the players so they don't get rusty or our energy levels get depleted and we get to be dominated by Southfeckingampton.
Fatigue has caught up to us, we need to rotate more and trust our backups more.
I saw people posting that our backups in McT & Fred are way too bad for challenging, forgetting that they were crucial in early to mid season when they played every game and established themselves.
Ole must find that sweetspot of rotating the players so they don't get rusty or our energy levels get depleted and we get to be dominated by Southfeckingampton.
What I don't understand is how even our new players (Bruno) aren't mentally strong, it's like the club is cursed and just sucks the life out of everyone who puts on a red shirt
Bruno tries and tries. He is not the issue.
Yes. I believe you are right. Red Caf fans lack mental strenght
Hopefully finally getting into the top 4 and being there for our final game will be a boost to our mentality and we need that right now as we are looking knackered
I agree
We have talented players. But a captain who hasn’t won anything and no leaders within the squad.
We desperately need some leadership this summer Imo. Would love Pique back. He’s won everything, says he’d only play for United in England, we need a CB, need experience at the back, Barca need a few quid
And how about all the times we didn't drop points when we had an opportunity to gain Points on our opponents ?
No. I think the main reason we've dropped point lately is down to fatigue - teams like Chelsea have more depth so can chop and change more. We've just been the victim of poor starts for the last 2 seasons, and should we miss out again, it'll be down to that rather than draws against Southampton/WHam.
Liverpool have won the league under no pressure from anyone else but bombed out of all the cups relatively early - does that mean they lack mental strength?
Liverpool have won the league under no pressure from anyone else but bombed out of all the cups relatively early - does that mean they lack mental strength?
I think we all can agree majority of the players did not show good mental strength in those games... as they have and did in past games, plenty enough to consider they have it in them.
Keeping mental state strong is also an effort, and has consistency. The best leaders normally have high level of consistent strong mental strength, but even they can have their off days.
When the team are "down" mentally, it's time for the leaders among players, manager and coaches to be the one that inspire them up. Doesn't look like there's anyone stepping-up in those games unfortunately.
Keeping mental state strong is also an effort, and has consistency. The best leaders normally have high level of consistent strong mental strength, but even they can have their off days.
When the team are "down" mentally, it's time for the leaders among players, manager and coaches to be the one that inspire them up. Doesn't look like there's anyone stepping-up in those games unfortunately.
We’ll find out the answer to this today, big game for DeGea, Maguire in defence and Rashford, Pogba, Martial in attack.
They really need to be at it today and if they’re not at it they need to work extra hard.
They really need to be at it today and if they’re not at it they need to work extra hard.
Yes, quite clearly. Hope to have egg on my face in a few hours after a comfortable victory over Leicester.