Even before Pep, your best season in ages came from your caretaker Heynckes
Are we now “the impossible job”?
- Thread starter IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Imran (@Annihilate Now!) & Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to discuss disappointed FA Cup exit at the hands of Brighton - confirming our shortest season in over 100 years. They also discuss the news that Michael Carrick is set to be United's manager until the end of the season.
I think they'll have changed the league format to a European superleague before we win this version again.
This is it.
We need the Van Gaal / Mourinho level manager when they're at their peak.
Not many a year after it.
Have to applaud us for trying to find the next up and coming hot manager like with ETH and Amorim but it just didn't work.
The former did have a spell where we really looked at it, but Amorim never even had that.
No we're not an impossible job and I'm also sick of seeing people say how we are 'cursed' every time something goes wrong or an ex-player goes and does well elsewhere.
If you look at what's happened the last 15 years it's all very, very simple what has happened to put us where we are now.
We employed someone who was nowhere near qualified to succeed the greatest manager of all time and then replaced him with a series of completely different managers for 10+ years each of which (until Amorim) were allowed to buy whoever they fancied.
We were then left with a total demoralised mess of a squad, meanwhile the rest of the league has caught up to or surpassed us.
Whatever you think about INEOS (and their choices re: manager have been terrible) they have the right idea in terms of squad rebuilding - I have reasonable confidence if left to it we can get back on track in a few transfer windows.
Maybe the job to succeed Amorim is a difficult one, but I'd argue it's less of a terrible job to step into than after most of the other managers we've had since Fergie.
If you look at what's happened the last 15 years it's all very, very simple what has happened to put us where we are now.
We employed someone who was nowhere near qualified to succeed the greatest manager of all time and then replaced him with a series of completely different managers for 10+ years each of which (until Amorim) were allowed to buy whoever they fancied.
We were then left with a total demoralised mess of a squad, meanwhile the rest of the league has caught up to or surpassed us.
Whatever you think about INEOS (and their choices re: manager have been terrible) they have the right idea in terms of squad rebuilding - I have reasonable confidence if left to it we can get back on track in a few transfer windows.
Maybe the job to succeed Amorim is a difficult one, but I'd argue it's less of a terrible job to step into than after most of the other managers we've had since Fergie.
We have been 'the impossible job' for a long time.
But the one person who can get it right wins the jackpot.
Bring on the next one.
But the one person who can get it right wins the jackpot.
Bring on the next one.
But I thought we're gonna improve because Ruben was so terrible. I'm confused. Will the next manager have to be sacked if we fall back to 15th after the next 3 games?
Their managerial choices have been terrible but it's looking from a hindsight.
This forum was utterly excited with Ten Hag and then Amorim, did the board have more insight about them then we did and made a really "informed decision"? Probably yes, but even then the mistake was probably getting managers who dominated farmers leagues with vastly superior squad at disposal. This mistake we need to avoid next time. Everybody wants to hire the next Pep/Klopp, we are now competing with Chelsea for next permanent manager and we might end up with second best (at least on paper). That said, I agree about the squad rebuilding going into the right direction lately. A lot depends on what happens in the summer though before we can make that statement with confidence.
We're not going to answer that question after the next manager is appointed I guess? And I certainly hope you give him more than 3 games. The point is, next 3 games we're going to get more clarity on our league position, that I believe will be the benchmark of where we are. I expect us to land around 10th league position and that would be a good representation of what progress Amorim has made with this team IMO. To be honest I am a bit surprised he wasn't given those 3 more games.
Why would a top level manager in their peak come here?
This is the reason I don't get all the Manchester United deserve to be at the top winning leagues etc., we don't have a history of doing so.
Just because Ferguson enjoyed approx. 20 years of success doesn't make us deserve the league or belong at the top any more than anyone else.
Well currently we're 6th with the 6th best, hugely depleted, squad and the 6th highest wage bill.
At least the fans are patient though.
Because we are one of the biggest sporting franchises in the world
And in a great place to make steps in the right direction
Good players
Money
Relatively low expectations for a big club
That last part actually made laughWell currently we're 6th with the 6th best hugely depleted squad and the 6th highest wage bill.
At least the fans are patient though.
I feel like pointing this out is like "cursing in church" here. But this quote and the quote above that made me laugh, kind of fit together, imo.
Being one of the biggest clubs isn't at the top of importance for managers, they want success. Other top clubs generally are a better option m
Its a club and squad which needs a lot of change, mediocre squads unlikely to achieve much compared to others.
A top manager in their prime picks a club in a better position to win.
Yep, 6th with 3 points distance to 4th and 10th. Let's see how this works for us in the next few games.Well currently we're 6th with the 6th best hugely depleted squad and the 6th highest wage bill.
At least the fans are patient though.
The squad has been hugely depleted, would be not fair to say otherwise, but we had our time to build the points buffer before all of the AFCON/injuries started to pile up, that was when Amorim lost me for example. My opinion on him has not changed since then, the recent poor results are not working that much against him really. Any other manager would struggle in those recent games and would be stupid to shout "sack him".
The next few months though will be possibly the most excting times we've had for 1,5 years because hopefully we will see what that squad is capable of in normal circumstances/system. I am not very optimistic if this is going to be enough to get Champions League but we are at least in the mix.
On the bolded bit, this is why I though it would make sense to keep him for the next 3 games in which we are expected to drop points - that would be fair to Amorim but would also cut the "we're 6th" narrative - one way or another, depending on the results.
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What do you mean "now"? It's been a poison chalice since Moyes.
The best managers of the last 13 years generally gave United a wide birth. Pep and Klopp refused the chance to manage us and don’t recall anchelloti ever seriously linked.
Jose was the only one brave or stupid enough to try. I really do think United is not a desirable place anymore than the England job at peak WAG nonsense. United has proven to be a managers grave yard with drama a circus could only wish to call on.
One of The main reasons it’s a hard job is because any manager taking over has to work in an amateur organisation that’s absolutely terrible at bringing in good alternatives and offloading unwanted players.
The trouble seems to be that any manager is going to be micromanaged and have constant interference from others. Not many people will stand for it (actually, this is why I think they will revert to Ole)
Wilcox needs to start taking pressers as well!...it seems like he wants all the control and none of the accountability!
Great job if you can blag it!
Great job if you can blag it!
Surely 6th after 19 games is the fairest way to look at it. We're 6th after playing everybody. If you wanna add in 2 more games against the best 2 teams in the country, that's your prerogative, but I think it paints it a tad unfairly.
Managers have gotten you 2nd and 3rd, so there is hope. None of the Managers have gone on to success good enough for united since they were fired, so you have hired Managers past their best or declining, or some who are if course great but not good enough for united. The only managers out there good enough for united are conte, allegri, ancelotti, klopp, zidane, xavi, flick, guardiola, enrique and perhapssomeothers i have forgotten. They are mostly consistent winners at big clubs and likely to do well, imo. You could possibly get Zidane, ancelotti, Enrique, xavi, conte or allegri eventually imo.
If we get the recruitment right, it should be a dream job. We are really not far from having a top four squad with a decent age profile, which would be something to build on.
An ambitious manager will be looking at this team and thinking we aren't that far off, and with a few tactical adjustments, we can improve from what Amorim showed. That would secure a lot of goodwill early.
An ambitious manager will be looking at this team and thinking we aren't that far off, and with a few tactical adjustments, we can improve from what Amorim showed. That would secure a lot of goodwill early.
I do think our points tally represents where we are quite well. The league position alone is a bit misleading because how close we are to the teams behind, the way the table is squeezed 5-12 places this season looks abnormal. So 6th sounds better than it really is IMO. Especially if there's nothing else going on for us apart from the league.
Bayern is not comparable with United though, you basically play in a one team league.
There's never any jeopardy about missing out on the Champions League as you finish first nine times out of ten. Any half decent manager can look good at the likes of Bayern and PSG.
I started watching united at 8 years of age in 1970. My father brought me up on the Busby babes and best, law, Charlton the last 3 whom I was fortunate enough to see for a while. Uniteds DNA is to attack and bring through young players. For my first 19 years,if watching united we were relegated and won 3 FA cups, no more. Fergie arrived and I had 23 great years, Sir Matt had glorious years,and would have been the greatest ever if not for the Munich tragedy. Those 2 managers are the reason we are in the top 4 of the world's biggest clubs, I fear over time that will dwindle and the leeches who own the club wil not bother
A top manager, possibly, but are we even in the market for a 'top' manager? Glasner, McKenna and Iraola are not top managers (or at least we don't have sufficient evidence to confidently state that they are) and we know Solskjaer isn't up to it, nevermind Carrick.
Tuchel or Conte, I agree, could elevate this lot into a UCL-qualifying side, but I don't think we've had any indication that's the level we're likely to be recruiting at.
It seems much more probable that we'll appoint someone who's merely 'decent' and be in an uphill battle for the UCL places again next year, unless there is massive investment in the squad in the interim (there won't be, because we can't afford it). I just can't see where the upside is coming from in the next few years that gets United back into the UCL every season, let alone challenging for the league for the first time in over a decade.
Fair points, but as for this question, I have no idea.
It's coping with the off-field stuff that is somewhat unique to the role at United. I always worry about how the next manager is going to control the media/narrative IF the on-field results don't instantly improve.
Plus, if United are going to push the idea that a Head Coach isn't the Manager, then whoever the next coach is should be allowed to deflect any gossip/rumours onto Wilcox during interviews and press conferences, as he has inserted himself into the narrative.
But I'm not sure they would love that idea.
Plus, if United are going to push the idea that a Head Coach isn't the Manager, then whoever the next coach is should be allowed to deflect any gossip/rumours onto Wilcox during interviews and press conferences, as he has inserted himself into the narrative.
But I'm not sure they would love that idea.
Very disingenious take, just look at the pedigree of post-Pep managers who stayed no longer than your average United coach. Three of them even feature in the current poll of who United fans would like next.
Sounds like a dream job actually.
You can get employed, be mediocre for >1 year, score a generational wealth level payout, and then be confident that your future prospects won't be affected seeing as the club is seen as broken anyway, and there wasn't a lot you could have done. And let's not forget you still have the money to fall back on.
I would love a job that affords me the chance to be awful, get a huge payout when I'm let go, and not have to worry about finding work in future.
You can get employed, be mediocre for >1 year, score a generational wealth level payout, and then be confident that your future prospects won't be affected seeing as the club is seen as broken anyway, and there wasn't a lot you could have done. And let's not forget you still have the money to fall back on.
I would love a job that affords me the chance to be awful, get a huge payout when I'm let go, and not have to worry about finding work in future.
Now Amorim did the dirty job for anyone to come in, it's a great timing for any manager. Pressure is big but so is in top tier jobs!
All we need is to get to get rid of Dalot and few more, but the worst is done. Top class CM will be a priority and perhaps another mobile aggressive striker, and RB. That is not too many players we need, perhaps another pre-breakthrough CM.
Otherwise I think we can be really smart. Get Welbeck, Garner, maybe Guehi for depth.
People are underestimating how a good manager can change everything. Amorim to me was 7/10 which wasnt too bad, considering what he has done, but we have been lacking that clear vision, the philosophy how we should play and that doesnt mean 3 or 4 at the back, just better structure and understanding of the defensive game, how we should behave when we lose the ball. Neither Ten Haag, Amorim, Mourihho, Van Gaal, Ole had it, and that's why they failed. We need a manager who will make our players hungry and build a team which can counter-press much better, so we can start dominating games more. Amorim had good ideas and our overal attacking improved, it was mostly watchable albeit some dull games as well. The preception was also amplified with perfromances in the first half-season when we end up 14th, which was really not too far from 8th ETH left us, despite massive clear out, Onana/Bayindir shockers every game, and absolute focus on the EL and injuries to key players.
All we need is to get to get rid of Dalot and few more, but the worst is done. Top class CM will be a priority and perhaps another mobile aggressive striker, and RB. That is not too many players we need, perhaps another pre-breakthrough CM.
Otherwise I think we can be really smart. Get Welbeck, Garner, maybe Guehi for depth.
People are underestimating how a good manager can change everything. Amorim to me was 7/10 which wasnt too bad, considering what he has done, but we have been lacking that clear vision, the philosophy how we should play and that doesnt mean 3 or 4 at the back, just better structure and understanding of the defensive game, how we should behave when we lose the ball. Neither Ten Haag, Amorim, Mourihho, Van Gaal, Ole had it, and that's why they failed. We need a manager who will make our players hungry and build a team which can counter-press much better, so we can start dominating games more. Amorim had good ideas and our overal attacking improved, it was mostly watchable albeit some dull games as well. The preception was also amplified with perfromances in the first half-season when we end up 14th, which was really not too far from 8th ETH left us, despite massive clear out, Onana/Bayindir shockers every game, and absolute focus on the EL and injuries to key players.
You can't compare Bayern and Real Madrid to Man Utd. They're the most successfully run clubs and we're the worst.
Can we sack the incompetent clown already? What a thing to say from a DoF. It should be an instant disqualification for this job if you can't let a manager/head coach do his job.
Every single manager that we've had after Sir Alex would win the league with Bayern Munich.
disagree, there is only a handful of these clubs in the world. there has to be more than 10 good managers in the world.
The squad is not mediocre, emery has villa, in some eyes, as title challengers! with a weaker squad than city, a top manager would back themselves at Utd
I think we are, the fan base is too impatient, pundits shit on the manager daily.
There's no patience for progress, we sack managers every 12-24 months, the structure is improving but is inexperienced.
There's no patience for progress, we sack managers every 12-24 months, the structure is improving but is inexperienced.
The manager who turns us around will be immortalized.
Calling the United fanbase too impatient is hilarious. Genuinely
Nah, most patient fanbase of any big club, club willing to invest hundreds of millions into you and not even expect you win the league.
Criticism from the media of course but if you do a reasonable job then it isn't any worse than any other big club.
Criticism from the media of course but if you do a reasonable job then it isn't any worse than any other big club.
If you follow social media platforms, the YouTube fan channels it's very much true. Every game is knee jerk.
I've seen the popular channels change their opinion continuously. Before the season starts "we need time" then 3 games in, completely different view points.
Also the pressure from pundits is just not there for any other club, which adds more scrutiny, filters down to the fanbase and it gets repeated.