Are we now seeing the Carrick-McKenna influence?

fellaini's barber

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:)



How is this thread a negative in any way? Genuine question...
We got a new manager and the football changed why are we now trying to attribute that change To the blokes who've been here all season when were playing shit?
 

JMack1234

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Nope.

We're seeing the impact of a manager who plays to this squads strength by setting us up to play positive attacking football.

The myth of the no. 2 is one of my pet peeves. I don't know how long it's been around but i'd assume the Brian Clough meltdown after Peter Taylor left plays quite a big part of it. I remember the buzz around this forum when Buvac left Liverpool and the speculation that this might bring down the Klopp project at Liverpool. What happened? They got better. Fergie used to shuffle the pack with his assistants all the time as well.

Finally I find the myth of Carrick and McKenna really odd. Yeah we all love Carrick but what were they doing under Mourinho?
 

JK-27

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More likely the Ole and Phelan influence than Carrick and McKenna to be honest. If Carrick and McKenna were that influential we should have seen some of it under Jose, but we didn't.
 

Rash Decision

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Nope.

We're seeing the impact of a manager who plays to this squads strength by setting us up to play positive attacking football.

The myth of the no. 2 is one of my pet peeves. I don't know how long it's been around but i'd assume the Brian Clough meltdown after Peter Taylor left plays quite a big part of it. I remember the buzz around this forum when Buvac left Liverpool and the speculation that this might bring down the Klopp project at Liverpool. What happened? They got better. Fergie used to shuffle the pack with his assistants all the time as well.

Finally I find the myth of Carrick and McKenna really odd. Yeah we all love Carrick but what were they doing under Mourinho?
I don't really get the focus on Carrick, who's barely into his first ever coaching job. But McKenna had done really well with the U18s and was known for his attacking, free-scoring style. Given how little time Ole has had to work with the players, debating whether the new style we've been seeing since Cardiff is more down to Ole or McKenna is not unreasonable I think.
 

lex talionis

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Credit to everyone on the coaching staff, but if we're looking for the one person who has made all the difference, before and after The Sack, it's clearly Ole.
 

kentafuji

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Nope.

We're seeing the impact of a manager who plays to this squads strength by setting us up to play positive attacking football.

The myth of the no. 2 is one of my pet peeves. I don't know how long it's been around but i'd assume the Brian Clough meltdown after Peter Taylor left plays quite a big part of it. I remember the buzz around this forum when Buvac left Liverpool and the speculation that this might bring down the Klopp project at Liverpool. What happened? They got better. Fergie used to shuffle the pack with his assistants all the time as well.

Finally I find the myth of Carrick and McKenna really odd. Yeah we all love Carrick but what were they doing under Mourinho?
They were putting the cones out. We have Phelan back for that now. So, they now concentrate on tactics 100%
 

el3mel

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Are you taking the piss?

How can people possibly know these kind of stuff without having any insight :lol:
The whole thread is taking the piss as fas as I'm concerned.

The whole season peoole are asking about the effect of Carrick ane McKenna.

Earlier in season after Brighton loss : people thought they have no role and Mourinho was making them useless.

After some good results against Burnley ane Watford : Here it's guys ! Carrick and McKenna effect appeared.

Shite results back : Mourinho isn't allowing them to apply their effects.

Great results : Is that Carrick ane McKenna effect ?

It feels so funny it's ridiculous tbh.
 
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Grylte

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Wasn't aware there was a thread about this, just asked in the Solskjær thread.

Wondering how much they get to influence playstyle and what players are being used now, compared to under Mourinho, where i think they were very restricted.
And i would love to hear/read their thoughts in an interview.
 

RooneyLegend

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Well if we have learnt anything from watching Ole is that he’s a student of the game. He’ll listen and watch from others.

Unlike Jose he doesn’t appear to have an ounce of arrogance which is why I posed the question regarding Carrick/McKenna.

Phelan: knows the club, older coach, probably reads people well considering how long he’s been in the games. Brings something a bit different to the table...vast experience in working with the greatest manager ever in English football
If anything they'll be learning from him. He's been in the coaching game much longer than they have. What I don't understand is why you're attributing our success to them where as Ole has been at it much longer and pretty much is all about that front foot philosophy.

Exactly, Phelan is the only one that had been at it longer and as I said he isn't know for his training ground excellence.
 

Inigo Montoya

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If anything they'll be learning from him. He's been in the coaching game much longer than they have. What I don't understand is why you're attributing our success to them where as Ole has been at it much longer and pretty much is all about that front foot philosophy.

Exactly, Phelan is the only one that had been at it longer and as I said he isn't know for his training ground excellence.
If anything they'll be learning from him. He's been in the coaching game much longer than they have. What I don't understand is why you're attributing our success to them where as Ole has been at it much longer and pretty much is all about that front foot philosophy.

Exactly, Phelan is the only one that had been at it longer and as I said he isn't know for his training ground excellence.
Firstly; I never attributed anything to them,simply posed a question.

Secondly;addressing your point. What success? We've beaten teams now that we should have been putting to the sword anyway. Our success is seeing smiles and enjoyment back. The real test will be against the top 5.
 

Inigo Montoya

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The whole thread is taking the piss as fas as I'm concerned.

The whole season peoole are asking about the effect ot Carrick ane McKenna.

Earlier in season after Brighton loss : people thought they have no role and Mourinho was making them useless.

After some good results against Burnley ane Watford : Here it's guys ! Carrick and McKenna effect appeared. What good results?

Shite results back : Mourinho isn't allowing them to apply their effects. Were they allowed to do anything?

Great results : Is that Carrick ane McKenna effect ?- Well is it or isn't it?

It feels so funny it's ridiculous tbh.
Has the sun got to you?
 

RooneyLegend

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Firstly; I never attributed anything to them,simply posed a question.

Secondly;addressing your point. What success? We've beaten teams now that we should have been putting to the sword anyway. Our success is seeing smiles and enjoyment back. The real test will be against the top 5.
clearly your question is because you think maybe our upturn in results and performances comes from their influence. My question is why would you think so when Ole has been a coach for much longer and is known for pretty much the same football.
 

el3mel

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Has the sun got to you?
All these were said here, literally. People were talking about their effect after the Burnely and Watford matches in a thread here, then after shite results happened they were back to being restricted.

Look, there's one change happened in the coaching stuff and that's replacing Mourinho with Ole and Phelan, so it feels more logical to believe it's their effect rather the 2 guys who were here since start of the season.

Carrick and McKenna look like they're taking the job this season for learning. They were under Mourinho, can't see how it'll be different under Ole now. I tend to give more credit to Ole and Phelan as they're the new guys in the stuff.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Not sure but what I have really liked is the lot of them seem to be in it together, you see Ole speaking to the lot of them during games, they swap about who goes and gives instructions and best of all when we score or win they all seem very much like a unit and just celebrate with each other.

Maybe a lot of the stuff does come from or has come from them initially as they will have been preparing for these games in advance and then taken what they see to Ole. However great to see Ole out shouting at Matic telling him to put it forward as Martial had made a couple of good runs but it wasn’t in like a negative manner, just reinforcing that he can do it. Then Pogba was over reassuring him. Great stuff.
 

fallengt

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Don't know but our subs in recent matches were spot on. It can't be just Ole' ideas because he hardly knows the squad.
With Jose, he wouldn't listen and it'd probably be Fellaini or bust.
 

cyril C

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Well if this is how Carrick/McKenna wanted us to play but Mourinho wouldn't allow it, then yes
If you are assistants, your job is to assist your boss to implement his idea with the best possible options. If you do not like your boss tactics then you should have never joined the management team. What you want is irrelevant, resign or be sacked 2 months earlier like some person in Washington.
 

Dante

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I reckon it's more Phelan than Carrick/Mckenna.

The difference between the current regime and the previous one is night and day. That suggests a new influence is at play.

The only new influences are Ole and Phelan. Given that Ole is a rookie who's spent hardly any time with the squad, whereas Phelan is a seasoned veteran who's spent an equal amount of time with the squad, I'd guess the more experienced man is having the bigger effect.
 

Keyser

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If you are assistants, your job is to assist your boss to implement his idea with the best possible options. If you do not like your boss tactics then you should have never joined the management team. What you want is irrelevant, resign or be sacked 2 months earlier like some person in Washington.
That's not really what I said though was it

The question was 'If we lose its Mourinhos fault and if we win it's the Carrick/McKenna effect'

Which is true. If the manager with his tactics and instructions negates the benefits of the weeks training, that's his fault

If he goes and the team start performing with the same people training them, then that's to the credit of those people training them and would loosely indicate where the issue lay

The reverse is true, if Mourinho had binned the coaching staff, got new ones and we started sudfensu performing....
 

fellaini's barber

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Don't know but our subs in recent matches were spot on. It can't be just Ole' ideas because he hardly knows the squad.
With Jose, he wouldn't listen and it'd probably be Fellaini or bust.
Why? Doesn't he own a TV? Everyone on the bloody stands could make those subs
 

Chairman Steve

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I have noticed that Carrick and McKenna have become more vocal and animated recently, whilst they just sat there like dummies listening to Jose's shouting. I always wonder whether the board forced them on him in a possible attempt to make him play better football and whether it has anything to do with Rui Faria leaving.
 

Man of Leisure

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Anyone know if Ole got to bring any of his assistants from Molde? Wasn’t one of them another coach from our reserves that Ole brought along with him to both Molde and Cardiff?
 

OldPop

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The answer is certainly both yes and no.

Obviously, a big difference to the past is that Ole works with two-way communication, they work together as a team. I really enjoy the pictures where you can see them discuss with each other.

Ole certainly listens to all the advice he receives and takes the impression of those who have more experience than him. But he probably also gets several advice that does not correspond with each other or is bad with what he thinks.

Because he's in charge, he makes the decisions about which ideas he should follow, his own or others, so the most fair is, I think, to say that what we see now is above all Ole's influence. Although it may not be the whole truth.
 

ReddBalls

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Given that Ole is a rookie who's spent hardly any time with the squad, whereas Phelan is a seasoned veteran who's spent an equal amount of time with the squad, I'd guess the more experienced man is having the bigger effect.
Ole has coached the players like Ronaldo, Rooney, Pogba and Lingard previously and he's been a manager for 8 years after that. The way United play looks an awful lot like Molde did with Solskjær. Both him and Phelan has had equal time with the squad and the former is the latters boss. Why would Phelan be the one having the bigger effect?
 
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RooneyLegend

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That's not really what I said though was it

The question was 'If we lose its Mourinhos fault and if we win it's the Carrick/McKenna effect'

Which is true. If the manager with his tactics and instructions negates the benefits of the weeks training, that's his fault

If he goes and the team start performing with the same people training them, then that's to the credit of those people training them and would loosely indicate where the issue lay

The reverse is true, if Mourinho had binned the coaching staff, got new ones and we started sudfensu performing....
Mou was the coach.
Why? Doesn't he own a TV? Everyone on the bloody stands could make those subs
He himself said as much.
 

tomaldinho1

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I doubt either Carrick or McKenna had any influence on what we did under Mou, probably more a case of running the sessions Rui Faria used to run and being a shoulder to cry on/ear to shout in for the majority of the squad.

For me, I get the impression their main value currently is in more individual coaching - Carrick in particular seems to have strong relationships with players, Pogba came out in an interview (I think our win vs City) about his advice re late runs into the box. They likely now have a bit more leeway to take training sessions as they choose but the main difference is that we have happy players who have less 'red tape' in how they play.
 

Apokalips

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To be honest, it's very similar to a lot of areas in football. We had the whole "Jose hasn't been the same since Rui Faria left" garbage, Rafa fell apart when Pako left, Klopp was supposedly lost without his boy that looked like Professor Snape, but now that shite are top of the league no one even remembers that guy existed. People even have such a fully formed opinion of what Ed does and doesn't do despite absolutely no insight whatsoever.

We can, of course, speculate and yes I do believe Ole probably allows those two to have larger input than Jose would, because a)they've been there the whole time and b)Ole seems to be a lot less rigid than Jose, but we can't really know enough to take credit away from Ole for the upturn in fortunes.
 

KingOle

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Anyone know if Ole got to bring any of his assistants from Molde? Wasn’t one of them another coach from our reserves that Ole brought along with him to both Molde and Cardiff?
Yes he brought Mark Dempsey
 

RooneyLegend

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Managers say a lot of gracious stuff to give credit to others,even Jose when in a good mood. If Solksjaer needs Carrick to advice him to make subs like Lukaku and Sanchez I'd be very worried
I meant Ole said he's been keeping up with our team.
 

LoveFootball

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More likely the Ole and Phelan influence than Carrick and McKenna to be honest. If Carrick and McKenna were that influential we should have seen some of it under Jose, but we didn't.
But we did see it sporadically under Mourinho, didn't we? Hence some people and Mourinho claiming we were more attacking this season. Games against Tottenham, Fulham, that 2nd periode vs Newcastle, and during moments in some games. The problem under Mourinho was, in my opinion, that Mourinho phylosophy was the exact opposite of the style his new assistants wanted to implement, how can you play a pressing and attacking game with a midfield duo of Fellaini and Matic with a lazy Lukaku leading the lines? Or how do you want your forward to be effective in attack when they spend most of the game chasing opponent's FBs in our own half? How do you want to control a game when you instruct your CBs and goalkeeper to hoof the ball as far as possible? How do you want high intensity when you do your best to demotivate your players?
The board should have sacked Mourinho before the season even starts.

Coming back to the thread, we saw their influence much in the game against Cardiff. Didn't Ole himself said, when asked, that what we saw was a Carrick and Mckenna's work as he didn't have enough time to train the team with his proper ideas?
I agree with people saying it a team work between the coaches, Ole is the boss, but I think the others have more inputs in the way they want the team to play.
 
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fellaini's barber

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Attributing our few 'attacking displays' under Jose this season to Carrick and Mckenna and the defensive ones to Jose is classic caf nonsense
 

fellaini's barber

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:lol: We played our best football under Jose in his first season here, Chelsea and Madrid had some great attacking displays too under Jose, how did he manage all that without Carrick and Mckenna's influence?
 

M Utd

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Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. It could well have been then directly supporting the way Mou set up teams or them pulling their hair out. It's probably somewhere in between but perhaps they have a bigger voice now. It's certainly no coincidence that our style has change and there has been a reintroduction of staff who have been let go by the club.
Perhaps its the honeymoon period lots of managers get early on or fingers crossed it's something more than that. At the end of the day we're fun and exciting to watch at the moment and I'm enjoying every minute of it. The positivity seems to be back at the club. Players perform best with a smiles on their faces and that's been missing for too long now.
 

LoveFootball

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:lol: We played our best football under Jose in his first season here, Chelsea and Madrid had some great attacking displays too under Jose, how did he manage all that without Carrick and Mckenna's influence?
Are sure about what you're saying there? The football we're currently playing is miles better than anything we produced under the last 3 managers combined.

I wouldn't label the style Chelsea and Madrid played under Mourinho as "attacking". Defending deep and using the armada of talents you have to counter attack is not an attacking syle. Isn't Mourinho hated by Madrid fans and players because of his defensive style?
 

fellaini's barber

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Are sure about what you're saying there? The football we're currently playing is miles better than anything we produced under the last 3 managers combined.

I wouldn't label the style Chelsea and Madrid played under Mourinho as "attacking". Defending deep and using the armada of talents you have to counter attack is not an attacking syle. Isn't Mourinho hated by Madrid fans and players because of his defensive style?
Read the post well, I said our best football under Jose was that first season where we had Ibra
 

LoveFootball

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Read the post well, I said our best football under Jose was that first season where we had Ibra
It was a case of having good individuals players playing with confidence (Ibra and Pogba) than anything to do with Mourinho's attacking masterclass. Reason why we struggled when one of them wasn't available or out of form. Reason why every Mourinho's team couldn't sustain good football for longer period than 4 or 5 months at best, because when those quality players tired, no one else can replicate what they offer.