We are 5th at the moment. Curiously.
Are we the 6th best team in the league?
- Thread starter ManchesterYoda
- Start date
So. Where do you think we are at the moment? 6th? 5th!
So the team we just hammered 4-0 is better than us? Makes sense.
"If they can get better defensively". All signs point to them not being good defensively. At all. That's been our downfall over the years while last year there was absolutely nothing between the 4 top 4 challenging sides last season in attacking stats. So with us massively improving our defence, we'll see a big difference over the season.
On a good day we look capable of being the 6th best team in the league. Basically, we're shit.
Their 3rd was hardly impressive. They lost the player who carried them for 5+ years. They lost their manager. Their defence is atrocious. They arent going to be close to top 4 this year IMO.
He's right though. Creating is the hardest aspect of the game and Chelsea can iron out there defensive misgivings a lot easier than we can our side to side passing lack of creativity problem. I fancy Chelsea to finish above us once Kante is fully fit.
Why are aerials won so important in the ratings. I could think of 5 or 6 more important numbers.
I've seen more sensible posts from non-United fans here than the United fans in the last week.
Who knows, we're only 3 games in - but what you can see from Utd is progression and that's the first season I've been able to write that for a while
We have created far more chances and better quality chances than Chelsea have so far though? Last season as well, we created better quality chances than they did over the whole season and especially with Ole. On paper as well we are much better going forward. So why exactly do some people think they have a better attack? We just fecking beat them 4-0 where yeah, they had a couple of half chances, but nothing apart from that and hardly tested us apart from 2 shots from half chances that hit the woodwork.
So comparing us to Chelsea, we have a better defence then them, and we create more chances than them and have better players in attack than they do. Yet you think they'll do better? Perfect example of the fecking dramatic nature of people on here and lack of perspective. All the top 4 challengers will be inconsistent, we just beat one supposed challenger 4-0 yet people seemingly forget that instantly and just assume they'll be good?
As for sorting out defensive misgivings being easy... Come on. That obviously isn't the case. Time and time again it's been shown that if you play an open, expansive style of football, if you just don't have the quality of players at the back, you won't be solid. Lampard wants to play attacking football, but they haven't been tremendously creative. Even still, they've been woeful at the back. The only way they get stronger defensively is by pulling them back quite a bit, along with Kante getting back to his best (which he hasn't been in a few years).
We hit Chelsea on the counter but they are much better at controlling the play than us and creating chances. They also have a better squad than us. If Pogba gets injured we have no hope. Chelsea have a midfield of Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic Mount, Barkley, Pulisic, Loftus Cheek and Hudson Odoi. That's vastly superior to United's. They also have Alonso and Zappacosta as FB cover and Giroud as back up up front. Their squad is superior and it will show.
They have a better midfield, that's it. And yeah we hit them on the counter? That's a perfectly valid way of playing? We beat them 4-0 while De Gea literally had no real save to make. Its laughable seeing anyone claim they are better than us this season, and that will show over the year, I guarantee it.
People are too dramatic. Liverpool and City are the 2 best sides in the league, and Spurs should be 3rd, but past that, there isnt anyone who has a better squad or starting 11 really.we'll see how the season plays out, but I'd say its very clearly between United and Arsenal for 4th, with the potential of Spurs falling behind in that group, while Chelsea will be in the 6th-9th group. I'll be shocked if they are close to top 4.
I know people love to shit on United on here while ignoring the frailties of other teams... but seriously. We just hammered them 2 weeks ago. Don't you see how funny is it to claim they are better? If they were better, they sure as feck wouldn't lose 4-0 to us. On paper they aren't better, they aren't better in statistical performances during the season both in chance creation and in defensive ability, and they aren't better than us in the actual result on the pitch between the 2.
Progression? You call this progress? Based on what?
1 City
2 Liverpool due to injuries and weaker bench
— gap —
3 Spurs
— gap —
4 Arsenal benefitting from manager stability and a good transfer window
5-6 United and Chelsea with talent but novice managers and youth learning mistakes
7-8 Wolves, Leister though either could reach 4th
2 Liverpool due to injuries and weaker bench
— gap —
3 Spurs
— gap —
4 Arsenal benefitting from manager stability and a good transfer window
5-6 United and Chelsea with talent but novice managers and youth learning mistakes
7-8 Wolves, Leister though either could reach 4th
There’s player improvement in a couple of defensive positions, but that shouldn’t be confused with progression, which there is none of thus far.
Any place between 4th and 8th is where I see us, so 6th is a fair bet. We have to face facts most teams in Europe that have our name recognition tend to buy success. We seem caught up in trying to push our academy players into situations that they are either not prepared for or simply not good enough to handle.
I think we should buy creative and hardworking midfielders to surround Pogba. Push Pogba further up and let him interplay with Martial and a world class striker. Then introduce 1 or 2 youngsters occasionally and see if they can fit in.
I think we should buy creative and hardworking midfielders to surround Pogba. Push Pogba further up and let him interplay with Martial and a world class striker. Then introduce 1 or 2 youngsters occasionally and see if they can fit in.
I think 10 wingers is overdoing it a bit, tbh.
Based on the fact that I can see how you're actually set up, high press, fast transitional play, a fluid attack - yes it doesn't always happen but there is a clear plan, everyone knows what they're meant to do and the space they're expected to exploit.
I couldn't see how you were meant to play under Mou as it chopped and changed so often depending on who was in favour or which team you were playing. Under LvG it was clear what you were meant to do but it was painfully dull to watch.
Now after 1 transfer window and one preseason, there is a strategy. You may not have got who you wanted and what you wanted in the window, but not getting Bale and Dybala for instance show a clear strategy. You also have a strategy on the pitch, whether it works or not is subjective and too early to tell, but it's a feck of alot more fun to watch than anything you've served up for years. So yes I call that progress.
I see same old shit under jose. But each to his own i guess
Hardly call Sarri a loss, I think they achieved 3rd despite of Sarri not because of him. They finished ahead of Spurs and Arsenal and won the EL, so they did well considering.
Their defense is fine, as soon as Rudiger comes back. It's true Hazard is a loss, but Pulisic might just soften the blow.
I am genuinely surprised by that. For me, the difference in your football, the mood around the club and how you operated in the transfer market are so different it's like comparing night and day!
For me it's more like the same old shit under LVG, with the difference that we press with more intensity now. But all we do while in possession is knock the ball around to the CB's for 75 minutes and then chase the game at the end.
We’re definitely missing things still, but I see the clear direction of travel now. Kinda similar to when Klopp first came in. Issue is with that, is we need to buy a CM/RW in the Ilk of VVD transfer. Sancho would do that, but we need to be in CL to get him, which no one can guarantee right now.
Fair enough - but that must be quite a miserable way to watch football
Agree with this - you’ve got a way to go yet but that’s what happens when you switch philosophy every time you change your manager. But for me it looks like finally you’re heading in the right direction
Both are miserable. But between winning while playing badly and losing beautifully it'd pick winning badly.
There's no enjoyment in our predicament. Beaten by half the teams in the league while seeing city and pool raked up pts after pts.
And i dont see our supposed youth products worth any excitement, lingard and rashford are fast becoming the supermega star we all loathe.
I’m excited for you boys, I have a lot of time for Potter and I like the look of Trossard and Maupay. Throw Webster in the mix and you will have probably changed your style of play completely as well! although I had a lot of time for Hughton, think bad transfer decisions caught up with him.
xG model is rated highly by few isn't it? Going by that model, we created 3rd most goal scoring chances and have the best defensive record. Also have the 2nd most expected points going by chances created.
We have obvious problems, can't ignore that especially when it comes to creating quality chances or taking the shots quickly by making space with quick feet.
We have obvious problems, can't ignore that especially when it comes to creating quality chances or taking the shots quickly by making space with quick feet.
Yes. And there's no shame in admitting it.
We also need to take into account that our manager is the worst of the top 6, without looking at our team.
If I was Ole, once EL starts I would put everything in it and just make sure that we are in the top half of the table for the rest of the season. We do not have resources to sustain in both and we are not doing much PL anyway. We should have enough to around stay in the top half of the table. Just hope that Arsenal gets eliminated in the early stages of EL.
Sarri did a very decent job for them overall and they'll do worse without him IMO. Pulisic is alright but is young and in a new league, don't think he'll be anything amazing. Also their defence most definitely is not fine. They leak space all over the pitch and can be got at so easily. Rudiger isn't some world class player that'll fix that on his own without Lampard dramatically changing tactics. They'll adapt over the year, but in terms of defending, it'll almost certainly be a massive problem for them and that's not an easy thing to fix. Also going forward they really aren't great with creativity so far. Not awful, but not great. The only actual position where they are better than us is in midfield, but they are very far off in both boxes.
Nailed it noods.
Think you answered your own question there.
You got 38/1 that Utd would finish no higher than 6th? What bookies and when did you place it?
Strange considering there are three teams you’d expect us to be behind which means we’re 4th at best but with two other close rivals (Ars, Che) who could easily finish 4th/5th ahead of us.
Find those odds hard to believe.
I don't think we're worse than Arsenal or Chelsea. Tottenham aren't that much better either.
I said 6th place before the season and I didn't see much to change my opinion. It could potentially be lower if our key players like Pogba and Martial get injured.
You'd be very right to not believe them
Sorry typo, 190 quid returns. Did it with Betfred after we had signed Daniel James.1900 would have definitely softened the blow but very much hardened something else.