Yes but this thread is about this season not 4/5 years ago...and we have been pretty poor so far.We were really good in the big games under LvG. We finished 6th.
To be fair, if we go by the OP, this thread is not even about a title challenge and purely our approach to big games. Of course I would like to win more points against our direct title rivals, but as long as we keep up our form and consistency against the rest, we will finish strongly this season regardless of the title or not. All of this without addressing several key areas over the summer.. lets not forget many expected us to struggle to finish top 4 this year.Yes but this thread is about this season not 4/5 years ago...and we have been pretty poor so far.
If City and Liverpool find consistency, head to heads will be important and I for one want our form to improve and it will need to if we have title hopes in my opinion.
It could come down to a game at the Ethiad or at home to Liverpool for example to keep us top of the league as this season looks like it will be very tight until the very end.
have we got one single playerwith The quality to beat the press? Have we had such a player in the middle of the park since Scholes retired? I honestly can’t think of anyoneYep, that approach will see you through to a top 4 finish most years.
If you want to win this league, you probably need to offer a little more than that, though. We've been better without the ball than with it for a number of years now. I'd like to see us do more in possession.
Our top 4 games in 2006/07:Yep, that approach will see you through to a top 4 finish most years.
If you want to win this league, you probably need to offer a little more than that, though. We've been better without the ball than with it for a number of years now. I'd like to see us do more in possession.
Pogba/Bruno/Van De Beek?have we got one single playerwith The quality to beat the press? Have we had such a player in the middle of the park since Scholes retired? I honestly can’t think of anyone
Thought Pogba was very good at this today.have we got one single playerwith The quality to beat the press? Have we had such a player in the middle of the park since Scholes retired? I honestly can’t think of anyone
I think it's more due to just how poor our attackers have been this season. If Rashford in particular was in form he would have ripped Liverpool apart today.People saying today is different because we created chances, I don't think so. If they had VVD fit or a pair of real CBs, we wouldn't have gotten a sniff in this match. It would've been exactly like the other big games before this.
I'm actually amazed that anyone can argue against the stats. Zero goals from open play is pretty disgraceful and clearly points towards Ole either being negative or having no clue how to set up attacks in big games.
So last season he had awesome clues on how to set up vs big clubs but had no clue on how to break deeper defensive lines. This season he has no clue on how to set up vs big clubs.People saying today is different because we created chances, I don't think so. If they had VVD fit or a pair of real CBs, we wouldn't have gotten a sniff in this match. It would've been exactly like the other big games before this.
I'm actually amazed that anyone can argue against the stats. Zero goals from open play is pretty disgraceful and clearly points towards Ole either being negative or having no clue how to set up attacks in big games.
I think big clubs on the whole have set up more conservatively against us. They know our threat on the counter, so job number 1 is denying us space in behind. Chelsea, City, Arsenal... Have all done this. So it's a credit to the potency of OGS's counter attacking skills, however the next leap for him is figuring out how to make us better on the ball, such that when faced with situations like this, our team can take initiative and score goals without relying on counters. We can do this against smaller teams because they spend all their energy parking the bus, providing us with space and time. We don't get those luxuries with higher opposition. But it's a hurdle that OGS has to scale successfully if he plans to be here for a long time.So last season he had awesome clues on how to set up vs big clubs but had no clue on how to break deeper defensive lines. This season he has no clue on how to set up vs big clubs.
SO Ole doesn't know how to set up attacks in big games yet in the last season we have beaten Spurs, PSG, Leipzig, City, Chelsea...Ole either being negative or having no clue how to set up attacks in big games.
Yeah, big clubs are most conservative against us. Even City in the league game played safe game, sort of set up they usually do against Liverpool.I think big clubs on the whole have set up more conservatively against us. They know our threat on the counter, so job number 1 is denying us space in behind. Chelsea, City, Arsenal... Have all done this. So it's a credit to the potency of OGS's counter attacking skills, however the next leap for him is figuring out how to make us better on the ball, such that when faced with situations like this, our team can take initiative and score goals without relying on counters. We can do this against smaller teams because they spend all their energy parking the bus, providing us with space and time. We don't get those luxuries with higher opposition. But it's a hurdle that OGS has to scale successfully if he plans to be here for a long time.
This was a hurdle that Mourinho failed at while with us, by the way.
Fair point. God knows Ole can't make a mistake tactically what with the media and some of the fans, so his caution is understandable. Ole is a shrewd man and I'll always bow to his judgement.We could have opened right up, gone at them, and been destroyed within the first 30 minutes. There would probably be a “are we too naive” thread in here as a result.
This is Liverpool, a big and unpredictable game for us at the best of times, and a team who have been vastly superior to us in recent years to boot.
Personally I think losing them losing VVD is overblown. Their defensive strength doesn’t come from a CB pairing, rather the whole team combined through pressing, counterattacking and a physical, hardworking midfield. We saw this yesterday.Fair point. God knows Ole can't make a mistake tactically what with the media and some of the fans, so his caution is understandable. Ole is a shrewd man and I'll always bow to his judgement.
I just thought without Van Dijk that they were there for the taking yesterday. It would have made a massive statement.
The problem is our passing has been sloppy under Ole throughout. we have never looked composed on the ball. We need to start dominating teams and dictating play.We played poorly today and still could and maybe should have won the game. Our passing was sloppy and particularly first half, we kept looking for the Hollywood pass over the top too often.
How many teams do we see dominate possession against Liverpool? It's hard to be critical for that... especially when we are still so far away from the finished article.
Unfortunately we still have a fairly young side and better decision making will hopefully come with more experience. My biggest frustration yesterday was the way we consistently kept looking for the long ball over the top in the first half as soon as we'd win the ball. It's a good tactic against Liverpool's high line but it's stupid to attempt it so regularly in positions where it's a low percentage move and you're gifting possession straight back when it fails. Just mix it up a bit and try to play your way up the pitch too now and then. We did rectify this is a bit in the second half.The problem is our passing has been sloppy under Ole throughout. we have never looked composed on the ball. We need to start dominating teams and dictating play.
I want to see us work on that in the coming weeks.
To be fair, if we go by the OP, this thread is not even about a title challenge and purely our approach to big games. Of course I would like to win more points against our direct title rivals, but as long as we keep up our form and consistency against the rest, we will finish strongly this season regardless of the title or not. All of this without addressing several key areas over the summer.. lets not forget many expected us to struggle to finish top 4 this year.
Agreed, we will learn, it seems that Ole might have said look for the early ball into Rashford but the players took it too literally and kept forcing it.Unfortunately we still have a fairly young side and better decision making will hopefully come with more experience. My biggest frustration yesterday was the way we consistently kept looking for the long ball over the top in the first half as soon as we'd win the ball. It's a good tactic against Liverpool's high line but it's stupid to attempt it so regularly in positions where it's a low percentage move and you're gifting possession straight back when it fails. Just mix it up a bit and try to play your way up the pitch too now and then. We did rectify this is a bit in the second half.
We needed our players to play near their best yesterday and too many were no where near unfortunately. Probably less than half the team you would argue had a good game.
The only one with an agenda is you. We last beat City, Chelsea and spurs when there were fans in the stadium. I mean the Spurs game you mentioned was in 2019 FFS.SO Ole doesn't know how to set up attacks in big games yet in the last season we have beaten Spurs, PSG, Leipzig, City, Chelsea...
Stop with your agenda.
Correct.So last season he had awesome clues on how to set up vs big clubs but had no clue on how to break deeper defensive lines. This season he has no clue on how to set up vs big clubs.
You can’t just pretend these games didn’t happen because of subsequent results.The only one with an agenda is you. We last beat City, Chelsea and spurs when there were fans in the stadium. I mean the Spurs game you mentioned was in 2019 FFS.
PSG and Leipzig were good results but all of that was undone by losing the more important second games and crashing out of the CL.
