Martinez is no better than Rojo.
Argie Bargy
- Thread starter Big Andy
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Nik (@Rood), Jamie (@Vault Dweller) and Ed (@That'sHernandez) give their end of season awards out! They celebrate the best players, goals and moments of the season (there were some, honestly) and also give out awards for the worst and most disappointing players/moments of the season.
They then discuss all the latest transfer rumours and get into the potential ins and outs this summer at Old Trafford.
I think he’d have been brilliant as a deep lying playmaker in the Scholes/Carrick mould, you could see that Veron was always miles ahead of the rest of them in terms of play, he’d play a pass to where they should have been if they were on his wavelength at times.
Loved the guy but sadly it wasn’t to be.
I liked Veron but you're overrating his impact for us. Great player in Italy and nationally but, more often than not, he looked completely lost for us at times and really showed a lack of authority and influence in the PL.
Plus, outside of 3,4 clubs, the PL was hardly great at the time. Certainly far more energetic, robust and competitive nowadays.
He woke up Abit more on European nights though but I think fans are getting Abit ahead of themselves when they say Veron was on a a different level compared to his teammates.
Overal, he was sometimes good but largely underwhelming.
Plus, outside of 3,4 clubs, the PL was hardly great at the time. Certainly far more energetic, robust and competitive nowadays.
He woke up Abit more on European nights though but I think fans are getting Abit ahead of themselves when they say Veron was on a a different level compared to his teammates.
Overal, he was sometimes good but largely underwhelming.
So basicly the majority delivered more or less and at some point for many reasons all turned to some sort of shyte.
That they actual delive at some point it's what I guess makes it worse than it actually was.
At the same time, United has record of falling out with its biggest stars at some point, so there is a bit of a Barca shooting at your own feet behaviour in the club since time either.
That they actual delive at some point it's what I guess makes it worse than it actually was.
At the same time, United has record of falling out with its biggest stars at some point, so there is a bit of a Barca shooting at your own feet behaviour in the club since time either.
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The most trash chant of them all. No wonder they become cnuts.
He was on fire in the pre season for his third season with us and looked ready to step up another level, but Chelsea came for him with their new money. (and Peter Kenyon)
Apparently Martinez is a cnut too. A taxi driver told me a story on the way to Old Trafford about picking him up from that Junkyard Golf place. I can't remember the story as I was a bit drunk. But, long story short, I hear he's a cnut.
Put Veron in current United team we'll challenge for the title. His game would be so suitable for current version of premier league
Yehhh, thats nothing more than a hot take. Licha's first season at United was significantly better than anything Rojo ever produced. That being said, since then he's either been injured or bad and worse than that he seems to really struggle as a LCB in a back 3.
Its a bit of a prove it season for him. Hes close to being a write off IMO.
Ahead of his time. He just wasn't a Premier league player back then, but would be one of the best these days.
Easily our most underrated player
Its a shame this doesn't consider being out of position, dribbled past or silly fouls.
I personally put the Veron failure down to Ferguson myself. If I remember correctly, he was brought because we wanted to play 451 in Europe - which is likely why he performed better in Europe as that suited him. I don't think he was ever going to suit our 442 system, where in Europe he has much more of a free role that suited him.
He was a good player. Just the wrong player for us.
Not true at all.
I know he plays for Argentina, but isn’t Garnacho half Spanish and only lived in Spain before moving to Manchester? Seems he was more a victim of the rotten mentality here at the club and his ‘people’, rather than being part of the Argentine pattern.
Why isn’t this reported yet? What is it with the British? Is it nothing but John Bull and Tommy Robinson?
Look at the players:
Billy Meredith - nice tricks an’ all, but on the take. Played for City. cnut.
George Best - started out fine, but preferred booze and stardom to puttin’ in a shift for United. Shite
Lou Macari - good enough for second division and scoring vs scouser, ok, but has tried to kill thousands of matchgoing fans through cardiovascular issues with fatladen fish and potatoes at OT. cnut
Bryan Robson - made the team dependent on him, then spent most of his carreer drinking beer after training snd languishing on physio couches. Shite
Ryan Giggs - Yoga practicioner and wifeshagger. cnut.
David Beckham - Couldn’t handle a little booting even before he ran of to Real Madrid to play old boys footie with his missus. On the take for Quatar. Shite
Paul Scholes - has done more damage to United with his mouth than he did to the back heads of staff and players with his feet. cnut.
Gary Neville - mister loyalty pretend, now trying to squeeze United out of Salford with City. cnut
Marcus Rashford - shite cnut
Jadon Sancho - shite cnut
Kobbie Mainoo - not done anything wrong yet, but he hasn’t signed his contract yet, so jury still out.
Maybe Glazers should have moved United to Florida after all? Bite, for fecks sake, bite!
Look at the players:
Billy Meredith - nice tricks an’ all, but on the take. Played for City. cnut.
George Best - started out fine, but preferred booze and stardom to puttin’ in a shift for United. Shite
Lou Macari - good enough for second division and scoring vs scouser, ok, but has tried to kill thousands of matchgoing fans through cardiovascular issues with fatladen fish and potatoes at OT. cnut
Bryan Robson - made the team dependent on him, then spent most of his carreer drinking beer after training snd languishing on physio couches. Shite
Ryan Giggs - Yoga practicioner and wifeshagger. cnut.
David Beckham - Couldn’t handle a little booting even before he ran of to Real Madrid to play old boys footie with his missus. On the take for Quatar. Shite
Paul Scholes - has done more damage to United with his mouth than he did to the back heads of staff and players with his feet. cnut.
Gary Neville - mister loyalty pretend, now trying to squeeze United out of Salford with City. cnut
Marcus Rashford - shite cnut
Jadon Sancho - shite cnut
Kobbie Mainoo - not done anything wrong yet, but he hasn’t signed his contract yet, so jury still out.
Maybe Glazers should have moved United to Florida after all? Bite, for fecks sake, bite!
Needs a third misfit category just for Veron really.
If you didn't put him in a midfield that already had Scholes, Keane, Beckham, Giggs and Butt in it, he'd probably have been fine. Or at least appreciated more.
Romero could go in that category too although I'd edge him more towards shite, albeit that's kind of ok when you're still pretty good for a back up keeper..
If you didn't put him in a midfield that already had Scholes, Keane, Beckham, Giggs and Butt in it, he'd probably have been fine. Or at least appreciated more.
Romero could go in that category too although I'd edge him more towards shite, albeit that's kind of ok when you're still pretty good for a back up keeper..
Nah, it's what I've said:
"So basicly the majority delivered more or less and at some point for many reasons all turned to some sort of shyte."
That they actual delivered at some point it's what I guess makes it worse than it actually was. If the player was shyte since minute one, it doesn't actually bother that much.
And then what you've said also happens, yet it's pretty common in any big club around the globe:
"At the same time, United has record of falling out with its biggest stars at some point..."
PD: The only thing that perhaps at times slips with many fans from Big Clubs around Europe, it's that the Club Culture and Folklore in Brazil or Argentina it's at times even more extreme so the affiliation to any Club in Europe would never be that strong bar really digging it at some point like Zanetti with Inter (not even Batistuta with Roma ended well as another example).
All in all it's always was a tad silly, players going to long time rivals for instance has happened time and again around the world.
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Our record with Ecuadorian players is the best among the american countries. Steady, no histrionics, great athletes.
I wonder what other big clubs think their best successes or worst flops are in terms of foreign players:
Arsenal (possibly like United) must be France with their success rate-Henry, Vieira, Petit, Pires, and of course Wenger.
Chelsea-Italy/portugal?
Am I right in thinking Liverpool have had a few German and Italian bad signings?
Arsenal (possibly like United) must be France with their success rate-Henry, Vieira, Petit, Pires, and of course Wenger.
Chelsea-Italy/portugal?
Am I right in thinking Liverpool have had a few German and Italian bad signings?
At the time, I never really cared for Veron, and in games I've gone back to watch I still don't see the fuss. Even watching him before he joined us for Lazio. He just wasn't that good bar the odd moment of class, imo.
Not a very long list, but Tony V was a great guy.
Garna is a net profit at least
Its impossible to generalize an entire nation out of a number of players but having followed the Serie A for so long here's my general idea about Argentinian talent.
The first thing you'll need to understand is the first priority of an Argentinian player is to do well with the national team. The rest is a job. That tend to be a culture shock in the UK were club > country. TBF I find consistent across all SA talent but seems more prevalent with Argentinian specifically because of my second point. I find Argentinian talent to be extremely passionate, driven and direct. There's no half measures with them. They tend to train hard and they give their all to achieve their goal. Many appreciate those traits up until their aim is to move out of the club they play with. Then that drive will turn them into a villain because as said Argentinian talent is direct and extremely driven.
Given the option they'll rather go to Spain/Italy. That's due to a mix of weather, culture and their obsession of following their idols. But there again club football is a job for them. So they'll move for money though I never encourage clubs to buy players who don't want to be there. That's consistent with all nationalities but as said before Argentinian players tend to be very driven and you really wouldn't want to be in their path.
Occasionally they fall in love with the club they play for. When the star align its beautiful. I am referring to Maradona at Napoli or Zanetti at Inter.
In my opinion we should still sign them. They tend to have the talent, the work ethic and the maturity to succeed. Let's not forget that most are their family golden ticket for a better life, something these players tend to fully understand and tend to take such responsibility seriously. However don't take it too much at heart when they want to move on and for god sake don't act as an obstacle to that. These players have more experience in facing adversity then clubs do
The first thing you'll need to understand is the first priority of an Argentinian player is to do well with the national team. The rest is a job. That tend to be a culture shock in the UK were club > country. TBF I find consistent across all SA talent but seems more prevalent with Argentinian specifically because of my second point. I find Argentinian talent to be extremely passionate, driven and direct. There's no half measures with them. They tend to train hard and they give their all to achieve their goal. Many appreciate those traits up until their aim is to move out of the club they play with. Then that drive will turn them into a villain because as said Argentinian talent is direct and extremely driven.
Given the option they'll rather go to Spain/Italy. That's due to a mix of weather, culture and their obsession of following their idols. But there again club football is a job for them. So they'll move for money though I never encourage clubs to buy players who don't want to be there. That's consistent with all nationalities but as said before Argentinian players tend to be very driven and you really wouldn't want to be in their path.
Occasionally they fall in love with the club they play for. When the star align its beautiful. I am referring to Maradona at Napoli or Zanetti at Inter.
In my opinion we should still sign them. They tend to have the talent, the work ethic and the maturity to succeed. Let's not forget that most are their family golden ticket for a better life, something these players tend to fully understand and tend to take such responsibility seriously. However don't take it too much at heart when they want to move on and for god sake don't act as an obstacle to that. These players have more experience in facing adversity then clubs do
Have to sell him first.
Thats enough for me. Out the club!!!
An argument could be made that Rojo's 16/17 was at a similar level. Then he did his cruciate near the end of that season and never looked remotely the same player again. Martinez has at least had flashes of good quality since his first injury...inevitably just before he gets injured again.
Haven't trusted them since May 1982.
I always wondered what this one's grandpa was up to during the 1930/40s
I always wondered what this one's grandpa was up to during the 1930/40s
Jokes aside German inmigration started in Argentina mostly in the beggining of the 20th century and prior to WW2.
He is way better and I'm currently suffering Rojo since some time now
Yeah I mean our Brazilian success is likely as bad. Off the top of my head:
Kleberson - shite
Rafael - good but could’ve been better
Fabio - meh
Possebon - better as a translator than footballer
Anderson - shite
Fred - pretty much shite considering the fee
Antony - SHITE
Casemiro - sometimes good;, sometimes shite
Am I missing anyone?
If depresses me how we’ve lost our ability to bring in class Dutch players. From those legends to Depay, Weghorst, Van de Beek, Malacia…hopeful for Zirkzee and De Ligt
God knows. Hardly an inspiring list though
Nobody tell Cunha
I remember the tasteless chants aimed at Ardiles when he returned to Spurs after that shindig.
In someways I think the fact that so few of those players ‘fell out’ with the club means it’s a bit better than the Argentina list. There’s less of a sense of betrayal or what could have been.
True but none of them, save first season Casemiro and Rafael to an extent, seemed much good (which is depressing given they’re Brazilian.) Veron and Tevez were both clearly class, various issues notwithstanding.
You could expand it to South America in general: Sanchez, Falcao, and Forlan were 3 world class strikers, each of whom sucked for us. Valencia would seem to be the exception.