Arne Slot | ex-Liverpool manager | The Bald sack watch is over

DennisReynolds said:
The important part is that they're three key leaders in the dressing room
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So is Casemiro at United.

But similarly his legs have pretty much gone.

It's not because Carrick has "lost the dressing room". The club don't see that he can necessarily be relied upon next season, especially on a huge wage.

The reality is that at some point players who had been leaders in the dressing room are not able to perform any more and need to be shifted, especially if they're still on huge contracts which don't reflect what they are able to contribute on the pitch any more. That will of course naturally contribute to problems in the dressing room. Needing to replace past stalwarts is of course tricky.

Salah is a shadow of his former self; nothing to do with how he's used, he regularly misses chances now which 2 seasons ago he'd be putting away with his eyes closed. Alisson as you allude to has had numerous injury issues this season, suggesting he can't be relied upon any more, and Pool hava an adequate replacement already in Mamardashvili.

I don't think Slot is necessarily that great a manager, but effectively blaming him for Robertson being 32, and Salah and Alisson both being 33, is utterly ridiculous. They'd be on their way out whoever was manager.
 
MaMa given red said:
6th, having finished 15th the season before and been outwitted by a 17th placed Ange Postecoglou in the Europa final.

If Amorim had finished 1st and 4th, I wouldn't have wanted him sacked!

Why do people keep making comparisons that are completely inaccurate or just plain wrong?
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Looked at the wrong thing, but you were only 3 points off 4th, and in that 4th place was Slot and his Liverpool side. Point still remains that you're saying that's the only stat that matters which goes against your argument. If it's the only stat that matters then it reflects poorly on Slot because he's got a team that won the title in 4th and the stat that reflects that, his points, are way off the team winning the title this season.

I just still find it bizarre that every Liverpool fan who watches them every week disagrees with you yet you're adamant you're right. How often do you watch them out of interest?
 
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goldenboy said:
So is Casemiro at United.

But similarly his legs have pretty much gone.

It's not because Carrick has "lost the dressing room". The club don't see that he can necessarily be relied upon next season, especially on a huge wage.

The reality is that at some point players who had been leaders in the dressing room are not able to perform any more and need to be shifted, especially if they're still on huge contracts which don't reflect what they are able to contribute on the pitch any more. That will of course naturally contribute to problems in the dressing room. Needing to replace past stalwarts is of course tricky.

Salah is a shadow of his former self; nothing to do with how he's used, he regularly misses chances now which 2 seasons ago he'd be putting away with his eyes closed. Alisson as you allude to has had numerous injury issues this season, suggesting he can't be relied upon any more, and Pool hava an adequate replacement already in Mamardashvili.

I don't think Slot is necessarily that great a manager, but effectively blaming him for Robertson being 32, and Salah and Alisson both being 33, is utterly ridiculous. They'd be on their way out whoever was manager.
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I don't think they'd all be out with a different manager. And you're completely wrong about Salah - has he declined? Clearly. Has he also been misused? No doubt about it.

He's played more centrally a few times and looks better every time, even if not at his peak level.

Mamar is shite. Good shot stopper but shite on the ball and in pretty much every other area. He's not good enough to be 1st choice.

How often does a club ship out so many key voices? There's probably a few examples but it's rare, and probably even rarer that they work out.
 
DennisReynolds said:
How often does a club ship out so many key voices? There's probably a few examples but it's rare, and probably even rarer that they work out.
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Again, it's not the manager's fault that a number of key players have all fallen beyond their peaks at the same time.

When you build your squad such that multiple key players are the same age and as such hit their peaks at the same time, then they will also inevitably subsequently decline at the same time.
 
goldenboy said:
Again, it's not the manager's fault that a number of key players have all fallen beyond their peaks at the same time.

When you build your squad such that multiple key players are the same age and as such hit their peaks at the same time, then they will also inevitably subsequently decline at the same time.
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A number of key players? Try every single player in our squad other than Szoboszlai.

No one is playing well, even the younger lot and even the ones who joined last summer. If you can't blame the manager for that, what can you blame him for?
 
DennisReynolds said:
A number of key players? Try every single player in our squad other than Szoboszlai.

No one is playing well, even the younger lot and even the ones who joined last summer. If you can't blame the manager for that, what can you blame him for?
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But those of the squad who are leaving are those who because of their stage of career would have likely been leaving anyway. It's not to do with the dressing room being lost.

If it was, then it would rather be Szoboslai and Gravenberch pusing to leave (as opposed to Salah, Alisson and Robertson being phased out do to their age).

The team under-performing is a separate issue to the difference between players wanting out, and players being pushed out.
 
SilentWitness said:
Looked at the wrong thing, but you were only 3 points off 4th, and in that 4th place was Slot and his Liverpool side. Point still remains that you're saying that's the only stat that matters which goes against your argument. If it's the only stat that matters then it reflects poorly on Slot because he's got a team that won the title in 4th and the stat that reflects that, his points, are way off the team winning the title this season.

I just still find it bizarre that every Liverpool fan who watches them every week disagrees with you yet you're adamant you're right. How often do you watch them out of interest?
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So he has to remain at a title winning/challenging standard every season then? I've already laid out the problems he's had this year that have contributed to the drop off. I think most managers would have struggled to even get 4th this season. If you win a title that should buy you a bit of credit.

They looked like they'd hit rock bottom in March and I didn't expect them to make a Champions League place, a bit like Chelsea under Rosenior but they have turned it round enough to just about do enough.

Of course Liverpool fans will say that. They have forgotten what pre Klopp era Liverpool looked like. They expect exciting, winning football but no team in the league is playing like that.
They don't really have the players to play like that either. I keep asking who the good players are aside from Szoboszlai and no one is capable of providing an answer.

I'd say I've seen about half there games this season and they've been up and down.
 
goldenboy said:
But those of the squad who are leaving are those who because of their stage of career would have likely been leaving anyway. It's not to do with the dressing room being lost.

If it was, then it would rather be Szoboslai and Gravenberch pusing to leave (as opposed to Salah, Alisson and Robertson being phased out do to their age).

The team under-performing is a separate issue to the difference between players wanting out, and players being pushed out.
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I'll be stunned if those are the only players who are leaving. Convenient you left out Jones too who doesn't fit into the older category.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Mac leaving either, although I wouldn't particularly miss him after last season.
MaMa given red said:
So he has to remain at a title winning/challenging standard every season then? I've already laid out the problems he's had this year that have contributed to the drop off. I think most managers would have struggled to even get 4th this season. If you win a title that should buy you a bit of credit.

They looked like they'd hit rock bottom in March and I didn't expect them to make a Champions League place, a bit like Chelsea under Rosenior but they have turned it round enough to just about do enough.

Of course Liverpool fans will say that. They have forgotten what pre Klopp era Liverpool looked like. They expect exciting, winning football but no team in the league is playing like that.
They don't really have the players to play like that either. I keep asking who the good players are aside from Szoboszlai and no one is capable of providing an answer.

I'd say I've seen about half there games this season and they've been up and down.
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You are Arne Slot and I claim my five pounds.
 
DennisReynolds said:
I don't think they'd all be out with a different manager. And you're completely wrong about Salah - has he declined? Clearly. Has he also been misused? No doubt about it.

He's played more centrally a few times and looks better every time, even if not at his peak level.

Mamar is shite. Good shot stopper but shite on the ball and in pretty much every other area. He's not good enough to be 1st choice.

How often does a club ship out so many key voices? There's probably a few examples but it's rare, and probably even rarer that they work out.
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Why do you think Slot helped get an amazing season out of Salah last season but has misused him this season?
 
MaMa given red said:
So he has to remain at a title winning/challenging standard every season then? I've already laid out the problems he's had this year that have contributed to the drop off. I think most managers would have struggled to even get 4th this season. If you win a title that should buy you a bit of credit.

They looked like they'd hit rock bottom in March and I didn't expect them to make a Champions League place, a bit like Chelsea under Rosenior but they have turned it round enough to just about do enough.

Of course Liverpool fans will say that. They have forgotten what pre Klopp era Liverpool looked like. They expect exciting, winning football but no team in the league is playing like that.
They don't really have the players to play like that either. I keep asking who the good players are aside from Szoboszlai and no one is capable of providing an answer.

I'd say I've seen about half there games this season and they've been up and down.
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You have to maintain a standard somewhat if you haven't built up enough good faith like Klopp did (for good reason), and Slot quite clearly isn't.
 
SilentWitness said:
You have to maintain a standard somewhat if you haven't built up enough good faith like Klopp did (for good reason), and Slot quite clearly isn't.
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I personally think there is some truth in what the poster is saying. I don’t agree with everything, but it feels like the Liverpool fan base’s standards have completely skyrocketed since Klopp. Those standards and expectations are going to be really hard to match with any manager.
 
SilentWitness said:
You have to maintain a standard somewhat if you haven't built up enough good faith like Klopp did (for good reason), and Slot quite clearly isn't.
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What more could Slot have done in his first season? He's not a big personality like Klopp but then who is?

Some fans had turned on him a few months in to the following season.
 
Posh Red said:
I personally think there is some truth in what the poster is saying. I don’t agree with everything, but it feels like the Liverpool fan base’s standards have completely skyrocketed since Klopp. Those standards and expectations are going to be really hard to match with any manager.
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Thats completely understandable though? If you're a club that's been relatively consistent in terms of winning trophies and challenging for them and the title, then it's no surprise that you'd be expecting the next manager to be one that can keep your position, especially when they spent an enormous amount of money to maintain it.

MaMa given red said:
What more could Slot have done in his first season? He's not a big personality like Klopp but then who is?
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We aren't talking about his first season though, we are talking about this season.

MaMa given red said:
Some fans had turned on him a few months in to the following season.
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Due to how much the level has dropped, with players he signed (like Wirtz who he supposedly had a huge plan for). Yet the lines being repeated to you from Pool fans is that he has no plans or structure going forward and they're using that analysis to place if there is a good future with him or not, hence why they don't understand why you're so adamant he's brilliant and nothing is wrong.
 
SilentWitness said:
Thats completely understandable though? If you're a club that's been relatively consistent in terms of winning trophies and challenging for them and the title, then it's no surprise that you'd be expecting the next manager to be one that can keep your position, especially when they spent an enormous amount of money to maintain it.


We aren't talking about his first season though, we are talking about this season.


Due to how much the level has dropped, with players he signed (like Wirtz who he supposedly had a huge plan for). Yet the lines being repeated to you from Pool fans is that he has no plans or structure going forward and they're using that analysis to place if there is a good future with him or not, hence why they don't understand why you're so adamant he's brilliant and nothing is wrong.
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You said if you haven't built up enough good faith like Klopp did.
What more could Slot have done in his first season to build good faith?

I've already laid out the reasons why they've struggled. Wirtz doesn't look like he has the physicality for this league. There biggest mistake has been signing smaller lighter players just as the league has hit prime Tony Pulis era.
 
MaMa given red said:
You said if you haven't built up enough good faith like Klopp did.
What more could Slot have done in his first season to build good faith?

I've already laid out the reasons why they've struggled. Wirtz doesn't look like he has the physicality for this league. There biggest mistake has been signing smaller lighter players just as the league has hit prime Tony Pulis era.
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The good faith was built by Klopp from taking them from outside the CL spots to CL and PL winners. He built up several years of good faith.

Slot won the title but the warning signs for their level under him were bedding in during that title season so he has arguably more time where people have been concerned over him than not. You obviously have to be good to win a title but context allows you to recognise just how good it is.
 
goldenboy said:
But those of the squad who are leaving are those who because of their stage of career would have likely been leaving anyway. It's not to do with the dressing room being lost.

If it was, then it would rather be Szoboslai and Gravenberch pusing to leave (as opposed to Salah, Alisson and Robertson being phased out do to their age).

The team under-performing is a separate issue to the difference between players wanting out, and players being pushed out.
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Both things can be true at the same time

It’s clear that Salah, Robertson are declining. And there are players who’s form has fallen off a cliff such as MacAllister

But the manager has a large squad and those players mentioned are certainly good enough to be used in short bursts

However the coach has tinkered with the squad and tactics to the point now where the match going fans are saying that it’s boring and he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Plus 18 defeats. Amorim had 19 in his worst season. Still time to match that. I think it’s inevitable where this is going despite winning the league. Ranieri got fired by Leicester after winning the league, it happens.

The club should also take some criticism around signings onboard. It seemed a bit of a supermarket sweep last summer with little planning. Frimpong to replace TAA? That’s bonkers, he can’t defend or attack at this level.

I’m a United fan so obviously it’s all funny when it goes wrong for them but I can also recognise when they have a coach that’s a dead man walking.I find it bizarre that a few United fans argue in all seriousness that Liverpool would be wrong to sack him despite all the Liverpool fans telling them that they are so wrong
 
DennisReynolds said:
I'll be stunned if those are the only players who are leaving. Convenient you left out Jones too who doesn't fit into the older category.
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I did not conveniently leave him out - in my first post I already mentioned that he'd naturally want away because he's not had many opportunities and would likely rather want to be a regular starter somewhere.

Again, it's not the same thing as if e.g. Szoboslai and Gravenberch - two players doing well and in their prime - were pushing to leave. All the players cited are ones being phased out because they are either past their best and on big contracts, or a non-essential squad player whose sale would be pure PSR profit.

DennisReynolds said:
Wouldn't be surprised to see Mac leaving either, although I wouldn't particularly miss him after last season.
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You keep making my point for me haha. The way Mac has played this season, he's another one the club would be happy to get a good offer for so that he can be replaced.

If Szoboslai and Gravenberch start pulling an Enzo or Tonali and suggesting they're unhappy at Pool with the current manager and want out (as opposed to players the club are happy to be rid of), then you might have a point. But you don't.
 
DennisReynolds said:
A number of key players? Try every single player in our squad other than Szoboszlai.

No one is playing well, even the younger lot and even the ones who joined last summer. If you can't blame the manager for that, what can you blame him for?
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Perhaps they are not playing well because they are not very good. Look at Gravenberch, Konate, Jones and Mac Allister for example. Were the performances that Slot got out of them last season their actual level, or did he have them over achieving, and they have now regressed back to the level they have shown throuhgout the rest of their careers? Fourth in the league sounds about right to me for their quality.

The idea that a new manager is going to come in and get these players to be world beaters is extremely optimistic, especially without Salah doing the heavy lifting for the team.
 
golden_blunder said:
Both things can be true at the same time

I’m a United fan so obviously it’s all funny when it goes wrong for them but I can also recognise when they have a coach that’s a dead man walking.I find it bizarre that a few United fans argue in all seriousness that Liverpool would be wrong to sack him despite all the Liverpool fans telling them that they are so wrong
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I agree that it could also be true that Slot has lost the dressing room - if Slot was sacked based on how the season has gone it would not be a huge surprise.

But what I took issue with was the specific claim that Salah, Robertson, Alisson and Jones leaving this upcoming summer was somehow a point which indicated that Slot had lost the dressing room.

Had the poster rather argued that the overall level of Liverpool's performances being really low could be an indication that Slot doesn't have the full backing of the dressing room, then I might have considered it a not unreasonable suggestion.

However, those four players are all ones who would likely be phased out by the club this summer irrespective of who the manager was - given they are all either past it and unreliable while on big contracts, or a squad player who can still be sold this summer for pure PSR profit.
 
A lot of you guys arguing for Slot are missing key context in that he has completely changed the way Liverpool play this season just like ETH did in his 2nd season
 
golden_blunder said:
A lot of you guys arguing for Slot are missing key context in that he has completely changed the way Liverpool play this season just like ETH did in his 2nd season
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This was par for the course, though.

Last season was just the remainder of Klopp's blueprint, and Salah being brilliant.

He was always going to stamp his own ideology.
Nonetheless, I'm going to enjoy watching their inevitable slide down the table.
 
golden_blunder said:
A lot of you guys arguing for Slot are missing key context in that he has completely changed the way Liverpool play this season just like ETH did in his 2nd season
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Yep. After he discovered that our midfield was non existent in November he changed the style to our current sterile van-gaal-lite possession football. We're not getting completely overrun in midfield anymore, but we continue to be second best tactically in every game we play.

Our manager is literally the worst performer in every game we play, even when we win. Contemplate that.
 
golden_blunder said:
A lot of you guys arguing for Slot are missing key context in that he has completely changed the way Liverpool play this season just like ETH did in his 2nd season
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I think a lot of people are missing the more delicious big picture.

Liverpool have been absolutely shit all season, and might not have made Europe had they not scoused their way to 15 undeserved points in their first five. They’ve also spunked £250m on a crock and a featherweight. It’s truly glorious.
 
IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos said:
I think a lot of people are missing the more delicious big picture.

Liverpool have been absolutely shit all season, and might not have made Europe had they not scoused their way to 15 undeserved points in their first five. They’ve also spunked £250m on a crock and a featherweight. It’s truly glorious.
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It is off course truly glorious
 
golden_blunder said:
A lot of you guys arguing for Slot are missing key context in that he has completely changed the way Liverpool play this season just like ETH did in his 2nd season
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There’s a similarity there between the two for sure. ETH had a good first season then it all went downhill.
 
The test will be to see how he trains the squad from now until next season. We were always going to be hampered by ageing key players, allied to an influx of new signings and trying to integrate them into the squad. I actually think he has the tactical nous to now look at the squad in the close season and get us playing a style of football that the players are comfortable with and brings results.

Worth saying that I'm an eternal optimist!
 
Weird feelings for their final games. Always want them to lose at least 10-0, but also don’t want them to do so badly these last couple of games that his position becomes completely untenable and abandon plans to keep him in post.
 
:lol:

He’s gone. I still think they’ll get 4th as Villa will lose against City and they’ll probably beat Brentford but I don’t think he’ll stay.
 
Don't you dare lose against Brentford on the final day Sloty boy. Don't want them sacking you now do we?
 
Irwin99 said:
:lol:

He’s gone. I still think they’ll get 4th as Villa will lose against City and they’ll probably beat Brentford but I don’t think he’ll stay.
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He’s got them CL ? It’s hardly a sackable offence after winning the league in his 1st season
 
Irwin99 said:
:lol:

He’s gone. I still think they’ll get 4th as Villa will lose against City and they’ll probably beat Brentford but I don’t think he’ll stay.
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Doubt it. They don’t want Alonso.
 
Red00012 said:
He’s got them CL ? It’s hardly a sackable offence after winning the league in his 1st season
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The fans have turned on him, they’re used to seeing Klopp’s brand of football, and I’m not sure their players like him. They’ve had a lot of injury issues but with the money they spent, the losses and their title defence have been a spectacular failure really.
 
Irwin99 said:
The fans have turned on him, they’re used to seeing Klopp’s brand of football, and I’m not sure their players like him. They’ve had a lot of injury issues but with the money they spent, the losses and their title defence have been a spectacular failure really.
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Aging players and shit injured signings not really his fault (unless he wanted those players I don't know). Liverpool fans just thought they were going to relive the glory years and have got entitled.
 
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