Fans already starting to question their new messiah?
Arne Slot | Liverpool manager (Posture Watch)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Fans already starting to question their new messiah?
What does he keep saying?
He keeps comparing Liverpool to Feynoord and the Liverpool fans dont like it because apparently Feynoord arnt on the level to be compared with Liverpool.
He just keeps repeating it
Following Klopp is a difficult job for anybody. He treated those players and staff like one big family. Don't think I can ever remember him calling out his players in post match pressers. Slot doesn't come accross well in the media. His actions when Trent threw a tantrum in the stands didn't look good. The only reason why he did that was obviously to make a point in front of the cameras. He also hung his players out indirectly in the media after the Forest defeat. He risks getting those big named players against him pretty soon. He's treading on dangerous ground and them scousers are not known for taking prisoners.
I can see this imploding. He called out Quansah in the first game and now he has called out Szoboslai saying at Pool a advanced player needs more numbers.
He also comes across very disrespectful against other clubs, I get people found it funny in his post match against United where rival and United fans said "Slot told everyone our tactics in 30 seconds" but he has also been disrespectful to Notts Forest. Just because liverpool are a big name, it is not a given that you beat smaller clubs.
Would imagine any manager in the league could easily talk through Slot's tactics after a game too. They likely wouldn't do it though, as they aren't all so fond of their own emissions.
What happened with taa
Exactly, whereas Slot is coming across that way. With all the talk I am hearing from Liverpool fans, Jamie Carragher, them not getting top 4 would be the best thing that can happen.
This is a possibility. He doesn't sound like he has the relationship skills of Klopp, which is pretty much what held everything together despite the decline in squad quality.
Very few people have that level of interpersonal skills. Klopp would've been worshipped here as well. No shame for Slot to fall short on that front.
But explicitly calling out specific players this early into his job is a strange one for any manger.
Is he a parrot?
Not sure how his post match interview after United was disrespectful. They asked him what he did tactically and he gave them an answer.
Shots fired?
Unlike most people in football he can string multiple sentences together without saying uuuhhhhhh. Big deal.
Edit: note to self. Why are you defending Liverpool's manager on Redcafe. Only darkness, this path will bring.
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I thought of mentioning it, but figured 'what's the point' before actually posting.
To play into stereotypes Dutch people can often be blunt, no qualms about saying exactly what they feel. Not sure it's the best idea for managers though!
More disrespectful to Nottingham Forest and that. I can understand why he did it against United, its an easy win with the fans, beating a team 3-0 and saying this is how we played. I didnt see any sort of tactical breakdown after the loss?
‘I struggle with a calorie deficit’
What did he say about Forest? I only saw the post United thing, because all Dutch football shows replayed it 50 times. The battle of the balds is a bit of a thing here. Especially since both Pool and United are very Dutch at the moment.
Maybe I phrased it incorrectly.
I don't think Liverpool are as big or as attractive as Manchester United, the two Spanish giants, and arguably not even Bayern too. And they're only more attractive than the Italian big 3, because of the significant financial superiority. And let's be honest, both Arsenal and Chelsea can beat them to a signing most times, even if the two London clubs aren't going through a successful period at the time. But on paper, they should be at least a top 5 biggest club, with a lot of players even outside the British Isles dreaming to play for them, because of the 6 CL titles and all the domestic honours.
However, what many people might not consider important, but it's crucial IMO , is that they won 80% of their major trophies just before football become a global phenomenon in the 90s, and it has been growing ever since. In this era of the last ~35 years, they only had 1 really good era, which lasted around 5 years: from 2017 until 2022. And even in those years, their "pull" was massively boosted by Klopp as undoubtedly one of the best managers in the world, who most players would love to work with.
Coincidentally, United became ultra-successful exactly in that period, and started a 21 year long era of dominance at the perfect time. That's why the club that knocked Liverpool off their perch, but has fewer CL titles, has a bigger worldwide fanbase, generates more clicks, plays in a bigger stadium, has more money, is able to maintain a larger wage bill if they want to (we've trimmed it quite a bit in the last 24 months, but usually ours is way higher, and I think that will be the case before too long again).
But I don't want to derail this thread to be a United vs Liverpool size comparison discussion, and one of the helping circumstances I just mentioned for Liverpool, actually also applies to United and all the clubs in the league: financial superiority being basically one of the only things making them more attractive than the Italian big three, because the PL has been the de facto Super League for a long time now. I just gave one example where a club in my opinion is the bigger club despite less European trophies, because of how much more successful they've been in the last 35 years, whereas with Liverpool it's the opposite. Also, does anyone think Liverpool would've been able to attain names like Di María, Pogba, Ibrahimovic, Mourinho, Casemiro, Falcao, Schweinsteiger, without CL football? I don't think so, even if it's not their MO anyways. And yes, I know they didn't work out, but that's not the point here. De Ligt is another example. Also some big names with CL football, that I don't believe Liverpool would've had a shot at: Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo, Maguire vs City, Sánchez vs City, Mount vs other English clubs. And funnily enough, Yoro, but that was mostly just a question of finances, however I do think we would've still got him if Liverpool matched our offer.
But what I've just said is obviously also true for many other clubs:
-Barcelona wouldn't be the second biggest club in the world (at least in my opinion) without the golden era of 2006-2015, where they had the greatest player of all time, and a few other all-timer players as well, most of them coming from their own academy, 4 CLs in 9 years, the greatest tactical pioneer of the least 40 years in Pep, etc. so their modern era peak is also crucial for their reputation today.
-Madrid wouldn't objectively be considered as far and away the biggest club in world football, if their CL drought didn't end in 2014, or they only would've won 1 or 2 in the last 11 years instead of 6, and if the Ronaldo era didn't happen, or was much less successful.
-The same goes for Bayern, they got their shit together around 2008/2009 after some bad years, and have been part of the European elite basically every season since than. If that didn't happen, or was a much less successful period, they wouldn't be the giant they are today.
-Atletico wouldn't be where they are either, if they didn't manage to build themselves up to a much bigger club status under Simeone in the last 13-14 years.
-Milan have 3 CL titles and had dozens of legends play for them, forming legendary teams from between the early 90s until the early 2010s. Juventus also really needed the decade of dominance in the 2010s and being the only real Italian threat in Europe. Chelsea being a London club and the 2000s team with Mourinho, Arsenal's late 1990s and early 2000s teams + Wenger, etc.
I only listed these examples to prove that it's not necessarily just my United bias conveniently creating a timeline where Liverpool's most successful era is not that important, whereas the inception of our most successful era is conveniently the period from where achievements start mattering more. All of these clubs needed the modern era success to become what they are today, not just United. And I feel like Liverpool's 1 PL and 1 CL title in 5 years was not enough to elevate them into a top 3/5 club in the world, despite having an all-timer manager and a few all-timer players at the club. If City weren't around, it would've been obviously different, as the post-SAF era in England would've been all about Liverpool and Klopp basically, or at least most of it.
Overall, Slot has a difficult job on his hand because I do believe most Liverpool fans believe they are a bigger club than they are in reality, and the finances aren't there either to compete with United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Madrid, Bayern, PSG, and maybe Barca eventually as well.
Sorry for the long post, it basically just agrees with yours and expands on it a little bit
I really enjoy your posts here but just disagree a bit here
United signed those stars in dry spells ie Casemiro, Varane etc because of the ridiculous wages they offer to crocks and has beens which no other club does. When United blew a massive chunk on Casemiro I was blasted by Utd fans when I said his legs would give way and you'd be left with a player on huge wages who noone wants. Same with Maguire and Sancho whos wages are a massive hindrance. And nowadays players follow where the money is. Which is why midtable PL clubs beat or buy out players from top clubs in Italy for instance.
You think Robinho, Adebayor, Nasri, Clichy, Tevez cared for City's "history"? No. They went where the money is.
The wages thing above I don't think any Utd fan will disagree with me either since it's been a big issue.
Quite interesting you say this. I can agree that we overpaid, but like you mention with City, when you are not competing at the top table, you need to offer something else, in most cases its higher wages. Players follow money but Liverpool doubled or tripled the wage offer for Zubamendi but he didn't follow the money?
Also, I would like you to look at the highest wages paid in the PL, Liverpool are up there probably higher than United right now, this notion that Liverpool fans think that they pay peanuts is false.
Also, you can talk about you dont sign players because of their high wages but you wouldn't chase a player (Bellingham, Tchouameni) if you didnt know what the players wage demands were?
i hope he turns out to be this season's Ange Postecoglou
You have a point, but United having more money than Liverpool is also one of the symptoms of them being the much more successful team in the 1990s and 2000s.
Also, there are some players who will rather go to the historic club over the likes of City. Rice and Bellingham are the two best recent examples. It might be generally true, but not in every case. The preferences are different for every player. I doubt Liverpool would've been able to sign Pogba, for example, even if they wanted to, and were willing to pay big wages, back in 2016. And don't forget that United have both money and history. As soon as we become as attractive as City and Arsenal currently are sporting-wise as well, we'll be the best suited club IMO to rival Barcelona's and Madrid's greatness and attractiveness...but they'll still win it out because of their geographical advantage.
Btw: You enjoy my posts because I praise Arsenal a little bit more than most other posters are willing to, don't you?
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You're right you would chase Bellingham but Utd in their dry spell haven't been doing that. Casemiro, Varane are two examples. Th e other young players you have been chasing haven't been Bellinghams level at all. Sancho, only you were in for him and still paid him insane wages. Paying 80 million for Antony when again noone else was in for him.
Btw this isn't personal, our entire contract situation was a sham too, only till recently. And for what its worth I do think the new team at Utd don't seem incompetent like Glazers.
Haha, that helps too, but to be fair I enjoy a lot of posters on Cafe, as long as they're not about petty insults on the back of football tribalism. Its why I rarely visit any other football forum due to the quality of the threads here.You have a point, but United having more money than Liverpool is also one of the symptoms of them being the much more successful team in the 1990s and 2000s.
Also, there are some players who will rather go to the historic club over the likes of City. Rice and Bellingham are the two best recent examples. It might be generally true, but not in every case. The preferences are different for every player. I doubt Liverpool would've been able to sign Pogba, for example, even if they wanted to, and were willing to pay big wages, back in 2016. And don't forget that United have both money and history. As soon as we become as attractive as City and Arsenal currently are sporting-wise as well, we'll be the best suited club IMO to rival Barcelona's and Madrid's greatness and attractiveness...but they'll still win it out because of their geographical advantage.
Btw: You enjoy my posts because I praise Arsenal a little bit more than most other posters are willing to, don't you?
I agree with Utd and how they got their money, which is why I personally always found the 'look Utd outspent xyz' debate poor since Utd's money came from their performances and efforts. I do get your point re: Pogba but in Liverpool's case they never had the big name managers to attract such names when they were poor. You did. Jose an example, even at a dire club a big name might choose it because of him. Noone was going to choose Liverpool in the era where their manager was Hodgson, Kenny and Rodgers. If Utd were middling how Liverpool were in those days and had Hodgson managing them I don't think even your history would make someone like Pogba come.
You could say we have regressed a bit since he left.
Ajax did when ETH left.
Let's just say, with him gone you lost quite some gravitas
I mean what you have said about United there isn't wrong, I agree with you. Its complete incompetency to chase a player for 2 years (Sancho) and then to get the 2 fundamentals wrong, his favourite position and his attitude. With Antony, again its incompetence which shows lack of clear planning and it shows the people in power didn't know what they were doing. You dont sign Diallo as a talent, then Sancho for big money, only to go spend 86m on another RW the summer after.
This is why we are so far behind, we were never run correctly. You dont go from FDJ to Casemiro, you dont sign Mount who is a 10 when you have a Bruno who wont get dropped.
Exactly. And it was worse than that. Making financially inept decisions is one thing but brining on the most narcissistic person in the whole world for Instagram likes was another.
I don’t know what they were thinking. Brining Ronaldo on was only going to end in one way. It clearly showed that there was no coherent strategy and they just jumped on to possible transfers like capricious school children. That’s no way to run a professional football club.
Exactly, we can all have a go at Ole as a manager, imagine undermining a manager that badly? Regardless what you think of him as a coach / manager, he was the Manutd manager which means something.
So you spend 2 years building a team, wanting to play a high press and give him Ighalo, Cavani as Strikers before that, signing players like Donny as well.
Then we go into the third season and 2 games in you tell the manager here is CR7, use him, he doesn't like to press and will only play his way because of his stature?
How are you meant to change the whole game plan based on 1 player? The thing is, as owners of a football club, how can you allow such incompetence to go on for so long. Generally, any owner, if money is wasted in 1,2,3 years, there would be a change but our owners just got rid of one and promoted another from the team.
I genuinely think United feel almost 'obliged' to go for big name or very high fee transfers ie to live upto their name as one of the biggest clubs in the world. Just like Madrid did in the 2000s, ie buying players on massive fees...just because Madrid. I don't think any club would have paid for Sancho or Antony, the fees but United did as the high profile stuff comes with the name.
This can be good too eg when Utd bought Carrick or Ferdinand etc but those days you could sense a thought behind the process. Like you say the previous team was a shambles. If INEOS are even 50% more capable then its a big thing. I still stand by what I said before the season, 2-3 signings can change an entire team. Jesus, Zinchenko and Saliba (returning) changed the entire mood and pre season. You actually look at your back line now with Dalot, De Ligt, Martinez and Nazzouri (sorry butchered his name), Ugarte Mainoo and Fernandes already looks miles better than the mess before. I don't think this is good enough for a title but Top 4 battle its a good team. You still have Yoro to come back as well. A top winger/striker ie someone like Trossard who can play anywhere across the midfield and front line and a GK and it becomes much better.
Ofcourse I don't know whether that will happen with Ten Hag in charge or not but that's another topic
Yeah. And to top it all up, they smugly released a quote saying “Ole was asked if he would like the opportunity to manage Cristiano Ronaldo”. I am really grateful that the entire entourage of inept officials have been shown the door. They believed they can stumble into football club management. After all, they are successful bankers and finance men, how difficult will a football club be?
If we fail under this regime and under ETH then I would still be proud that we tried to do it the right way and failed.
legend has it, he's still talking about the forest game to this day
Next time we must sign lucky manager. Luck beats everything. New in league, gets easiest opening fixtures in history, winning 50:50 games while opposition creates chances and misses them week after week.
Thats the first 50/50 game they've had. They dominated every other game and all the stats and metrics back it up. Even today they had double the shots on target, more shots overall and an xg of nearly 3 vs an xg below 1. Even ruling out the dodgy penalty they were the better side tonight if not dominant.
Yup. Slot seems to have been a great appointment for Liverpool. I just know that if he’d gone here instead he’d have flopped though.
Can't wait till they get a few injuries the cnuts.
We should relabel OT the Theatre of Killed Hopes and Dreams but that doesn't roll of the tongue as easily.
We've got the luckiest manager in the league.
Liverpool have made a good start but good grief have they had an easy run of fixtures. Their only "tough" fixture was against us...and that's not saying much.
It'll be interesting to see how they get on against teams in the top half of the table.
It'll be interesting to see how they get on against teams in the top half of the table.