Arsenal 2021/22 | lost to Manchester United and Everton

romufc

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And the more important thing is, as a squad Chelsea were probably the 2nd strongest in the league. The biggest issue with lampard was defensive transitions where they were among the worst sides in the league. Apart from that they were pretty good even under Lampard - literally every underlying stat points to that.

What Tuchel has done is a great job, but saying that he turned around their fortune is a bit of a stretch
I mean that is the squad that had won the league with Conte 2 years before as well, so its not the same as Arsenal or United who have bought badly in the past.

Exactly, Tuchel done a very good job to get the Chelsea structure right.
 

Chief123

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Has anyone watched Ben White for a significant number of games and concluded he’s going to be a top defender?

Admittedly I’ve probably watched him about 10 times. And majority of those times he did nothing to suggest he’s going to be a top defender.
 

GoonerBear

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Has anyone watched Ben White for a significant number of games and concluded he’s going to be a top defender?

Admittedly I’ve probably watched him about 10 times. And majority of those times he did nothing to suggest he’s going to be a top defender.
Think he's been bought because he's a good footballer, rather than an actual good defender right now. Currently, he strikes me as someone that you might need to make concessions around for the balance of the team, ie pair him with an aggressive ball winner, especially in the air.

How he develops going forward, I'm not sure, but with experience he should certainly improve on his defensive play. Not sure given certain limitations that will be enough to class him as a top defender in his own right long term.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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I mean that is the squad that had won the league with Conte 2 years before as well, so its not the same as Arsenal or United who have bought badly in the past.
The squad that won the league with Conte (4 years before, not 2) was mostly gone by the time Tuchel took over.
 

ThatsGreat

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Has anyone watched Ben White for a significant number of games and concluded he’s going to be a top defender?

Admittedly I’ve probably watched him about 10 times. And majority of those times he did nothing to suggest he’s going to be a top defender.
Its this new thing hipsters are doing. Ability on the ball is more important than actual defensive ability. I'm not entirely against it tbh, seeing our struggles playing out from the back last year. But I agree that he's no van Dijk, and probably never will be.
 

Chief123

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Its this new thing hipsters are doing. Ability on the ball is more important than actual defensive ability. I'm not entirely against it tbh, seeing our struggles playing out from the back last year. But I agree that he's no van Dijk, and probably never will be.
I'm sure there is a good player in him for the right team and right setup. I mentioned before that its like Lindelof and Maguire. Arsenal needed a Maguire who will put his head where it hurts and is a leader. But they ended up signing a Lindelof who will be really exposed if he doesn't have a commanding defender next to him. I'm guessing Arteta is hoping he can create that partnership with Gabriel, but I've not been convinced Gabriel is the real deal either.
 

GoonerBear

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I'm sure there is a good player in him for the right team and right setup. I mentioned before that its like Lindelof and Maguire. Arsenal needed a Maguire who will put his head where it hurts and is a leader. But they ended up signing a Lindelof who will be really exposed if he doesn't have a commanding defender next to him. I'm guessing Arteta is hoping he can create that partnership with Gabriel, but I've not been convinced Gabriel is the real deal either.
I personally like Gabriel. Think he started off well & then was out with Covid around Xmas time & he was in and out a bit 2nd part of the season. Think he's shown glimpses of what he can do against top forwards having good games against the likes of Rashford & Kane. Needs to now work on his consistency.
 

Nish115

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Sounds like we have a few niggles atm. From Artetas press it seems like he wants to just go for it this game.

Ramsdale
Tomiyasu - White - Gabriel - Tierney
Odegaard - Partey - ESR
Pepe - Auba - Saka

Leno
Cedric
Chambers
Holding
Tavares
AMN
Lacazette
Martinelli
Balogun

If Lokonga is out, then wouldn't be surprised if he went all out with this​
 

Maluco

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They have lots of options, but they needed to bring in 3 players of real quality this summer, not half a dozen that improve the squad. They aren’t even in Europe to need the squad!

They have, as it stand, zero players that get on for Man United, who aren’t even the best team in the PL.

It’s an awful summer, when they needed to be doing the exact opposite
 

Ananke

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Surely this Wilshere return talk is rubbish right? Arteta says the door is open but he can’t be serious? :confused:
 

Yagami

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I think they have a brilliant central midfielder in the academy called Charlie Patino. From an English perspective I'm hopeful that this lad will become a very good player.
 

GoonerBear

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That is an abysmal squad for a team that aspires to be top 6. Unless they get in a top top manager they are light years away.
4 points off last season mate, I'd hardly say that was light years away.

Surely this Wilshere return talk is rubbish right? Arteta says the door is open but he can’t be serious? :confused:
Think he was talking the door is always open for him in terms of training and the like.
I think they have a brilliant central midfielder in the academy called Charlie Patino. From an English perspective I'm hopeful that this lad will become a very good player.
Miguel Azeez, Charlie Patino & probably Omar Hutchinson look like they have a good chance. Azeez on loan to Portsmouth for the season.
 

Gunnerineverylife

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^^ Don't blame him, Odegaard is simply doing what Arteta wants him to do, "Trusting the process."
 

awop

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Having almost the first 11 improved things but we were still incredibly wasteful... We could have won 4 or 5-0 and had to dig in until the 92nd minute against Norwich.
Tomiyasu had a very encouraging debut and Lokonga looked comfortable once again.
Maitland-Niles got a chance today and i saw the exact same player: some nice and tidy touches followed by the dumbest loss of possession under barely any pressure. It's not even a lack of technical ability, he's very good. It's like every 7/8minutes, his controller gets disconnected for 1s and he does the weirdest sh*t :houllier: Got shifted to RB and did okay.

More of the same with better finishing will be enough to beat Burnley before the fun one against Spurs.
 

Hansi Fick

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If they want to beat Man United to Zidane, they need to hurry..
 

Scroto Baggins

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As an Arsenal supporter do they honestly believe they can compete with the likes of City, United, Chelsea and Liverpool for a CL spot? Added to this Newcastle will be on the rise throwing around stupid sums of money, Maybe bring in Conte or Zidane to oversee the rebuild and promise them unheard of investment in the squad. I just do not see any of the trailing group of teams(Everton, Hammers, Arsenal, Spurs, Leicester) getting much of a look in.

Arsenal would need to get extraordinarily lucky, like have an academy player become a world class superstar around an already solid core, and one of the top teams to have a crazy injury crisis. Or big internal upheaval at a top 5 club, but this is extraneous noise, looking at external factors at other clubs to have a chance is not a great outlook.

There are always cups, I guess why the competitions are so loved, over 90mins anything can happen.
 

Pep's Suit

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They became a mid-table club during last 2-3 years and people just accept it. It's kinda hilarious and it all started in last few years of Wenger when he acted like 'Top4 is a trophy'. Still, if Arteta doesn't win next two games he has to go.
 

GoonerBear

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As an Arsenal supporter do they honestly believe they can compete with the likes of City, United, Chelsea and Liverpool for a CL spot? Added to this Newcastle will be on the rise throwing around stupid sums of money, Maybe bring in Conte or Zidane to oversee the rebuild and promise them unheard of investment in the squad. I just do not see any of the trailing group of teams(Everton, Hammers, Arsenal, Spurs, Leicester) getting much of a look in.

Arsenal would need to get extraordinarily lucky, like have an academy player become a world class superstar around an already solid core, and one of the top teams to have a crazy injury crisis. Or big internal upheaval at a top 5 club, but this is extraneous noise, looking at external factors at other clubs to have a chance is not a great outlook.

There are always cups, I guess why the competitions are so loved, over 90mins anything can happen.
It's becoming more difficult, that's for sure. You are right in what you are saying, for a club like Arsenal you need a number of things to fall into place. Liverpool have shown it can be done, but it relies on top coaching, top recruitment, a good bit of luck in the market, perhaps other teams to have issues etc.

My hope was to keep improving over the next couple of years, & hope to take some advantage of the transition years from the likes of Liverpool after Klopp leaves, but first of all we need to get our own house in order & Im really struggling to see that under Arteta currently.
 

Gunnerineverylife

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Would love it if we get someone like Zidane but I doubt he would come to Arsenal.

That said, I still would like Arteta to succeed with this squad, otherwise this will be his last season certainly.
 

Hansi Fick

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Would love it if we get someone like Zidane but I doubt he would come to Arsenal.

That said, I still would like Arteta to succeed with this squad, otherwise this will be his last season certainly.
His last season? You can't afford to give him the season for crying out loud. He has not succeeded, he is not succeeding, and quite clearly he will not succeed.
He's just not good enough a manager for a job like Arsenal, which should come as a surprise to noone.
That doesn't mean that everything he did was bad or there is nothing positive whatsoever, but a massive club like yours deserves better and must demand better. I just can't wrap my head around why the idea of Arteta has the lot of you hypnotized into throwing all expectations and standards over board, repeatedly.
It has to stop now.
 

GoonerBear

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His last season? You can't afford to give him the season for crying out loud. He has not succeeded, he is not succeeding, and quite clearly he will not succeed.
He's just not good enough a manager for a job like Arsenal, which should come as a surprise to noone.
That doesn't mean that everything he did was bad or there is nothing positive whatsoever, but a massive club like yours deserves better and must demand better. I just can't wrap my head around why the idea of Arteta has the lot of you hypnotized into throwing all expectations and standards over board, repeatedly.
It has to stop now.
He's now had 8 of the 10 games I wanted to give him to assess the start of this season, & im not seeing the improvement I was looking to see, bar about an hour vs Spurs, we've ranged from average to really poor. I can see the tide really turning on him Friday at home to Villa.
 

Hansi Fick

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He's now had 8 of the 10 games I wanted to give him to assess the start of this season, & im not seeing the improvement I was looking to see, bar about an hour vs Spurs, we've ranged from average to really poor. I can see the tide really turning on him Friday at home to Villa.
And with 11 points from these 8 games he can't reach the 18 points we talked about as minimum expectation anymore, even with wins against Leicester and Villa.
That's just it. What he gets the team to produce on the pitch is ultimately not good enough.
As I said, it's not all bad. I liked some of the things I saw against Palace. But many things were poor, too. It's just not enough. He had enough time, he has shown he can't be consistent top manager for Arsenal at this time.
That's not a slight on Arteta. It should be a high bar. He can go somewhere else with less ambition, improve, work on his experience. But Arsenal are a top club, they need a a top manager. With Arteta, you are a mid table club and you really shouldn't be doing this to yourself.
 

GoonerBear

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And with 11 points from these 8 games he can't reach the 18 points we talked about as minimum expectation anymore, even with wins against Leicester and Villa.
That's just it. What he gets the team to produce on the pitch is ultimately not good enough.
As I said, it's not all bad. I liked some of the things I saw against Palace. But many things were poor, too. It's just not enough. He had enough time, he has shown he can't be consistent top manager for Arsenal at this time.
That's not a slight on Arteta. It should be a high bar. He can go somewhere else with less ambition, improve, work on his experience. But Arsenal are a top club, they need a a top manager. With Arteta, you are a mid table club and you really shouldn't be doing this to yourself.
Yep, hard to argue now. My argument was that I prefer managers to be given time, I wanted him to have another summer window & then I'll judge him after that, that is close to 2 years in the job & I think that's a very fair time for his own players, his own ideas etc to be in place, & I'm just not seeing anything really.

I can handle a poor result here & there if performances were good or I could see a clear vision of how we want to play but I'm not even seeing that.

Think if we want to hire an old Pep 'protégé' (I use that term loosely) there's 1 at Ajax doing not too badly. Can even bring Overmars with him if they want to tick the Ex Arsenal box. You bound to have some views on Ten Haag?
 
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Blood Mage

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Arteta is having his best spell for a while. I never thought he'd outlast Ole but he almost certainly will now.
 

awop

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Hopefully White's sub was just a precaution and he can be there against Leicester.
Leicester - Liverpool - United away in the next 6 could easily be 2 or 3 defeats, just need to get maximum points against Watford and Newcastle and not lose to Everton to stay around the race for Europe.