Arsenal 2021/22 | PLEASE LOCK (SERIOUSLY)

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GoonerBear

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Will have to agree to disagree. He’s shit.
Said it before, guys like Holding & Elneny can have a place in a squad. Lowish wages, don't complain when not getting played, good in the dressing room, professional, do ok when called upon.

The problem is they shouldn't be immediate replacements, they should be back up of the backup.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Squads are 22-25 players and only 11 players can go on the pitch. There isn't really space there for "back-ups of the backup."
 

GoonerBear

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Squads are 22-25 players and only 11 players can go on the pitch. There isn't really space there for "back-ups of the backup."
Of course there is. Or I can rephrase that to not first choice back up. Just now Holding is first choice if White or Gabriel gets injured. Saliba should be that guy, or Ben White but that's another debate.

Just now, if Xhaka or Partey are out injured, Elneny is the next choice. I'd argue we need 2 midfielders to relegate Elneny further to be honest.
 

Mastadon

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5th place doesn’t tell the full story. We’ve been awful again unable to create chances or dominate games. After 2.5 season under Arteta I don’t see much reason to be optimistic about the future. Man has literally shown nothing in terms of performances that suggests we are on the brink of anything special. How we finished 5th is still a mystery to me I highly doubt we will be anywhere near it again next season.
 

SuperiorXI

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5th place doesn’t tell the full story. We’ve been awful again unable to create chances or dominate games. After 2.5 season under Arteta I don’t see much reason to be optimistic about the future. Man has literally shown nothing in terms of performances that suggests we are on the brink of anything special. How we finished 5th is still a mystery to me I highly doubt we will be anywhere near it again next season.
You'll have the dreaded Thursday/Sunday routine to contend with also, just like us. Europa League campaigns are the worst, I feel managers probably have to end up deciding which one to focus on (league or EL) due to fatigue. Unless they are somehow able to get together a big enough squad. Arsenal this season had none of that. They had one of the best opportunities to get 4th and fecked it up.
 

Xanther

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Lots of variables here
United fans would love to think that.

There are few guarantees in football and lots of surprising outcomes.
Always love these posts.
That's true, I'm speculating a lot. But you'll agree that realistically it's 4 teams fighting for 3rd and 4th. Even knowing that life is unpredictable, I can't help but feel there's a better case for Chelsea and Spurs for those 2 spots. If you count recent history as the best predictor of next season, then Arsenal don't look strong enough for it and Utd only slightly better.

Also, yeah, it's humiliating for both of us to not play in the CL, but even more so for you because it's going to be 6 years straight now, without it. I don't take pleasure in that, I respect Arsenal.
 

GoonerBear

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5th place doesn’t tell the full story. We’ve been awful again unable to create chances or dominate games. After 2.5 season under Arteta I don’t see much reason to be optimistic about the future. Man has literally shown nothing in terms of performances that suggests we are on the brink of anything special. How we finished 5th is still a mystery to me I highly doubt we will be anywhere near it again next season.
Seen this earlier. Doesn't suggest we are as bad as you think. Suggests while we need to improve, converting chances is more of an issue. Hopefully new forwards help with that.

 

WeePat

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Seen this earlier. Doesn't suggest we are as bad as you think. Suggests while we need to improve, converting chances is more of an issue. Hopefully new forwards help with that.

The xG is seems to be a typo, surely, as 69 would have you 3rd in the league. Fbref has your xG down as 59.9 which is good for 5th in the league behind Chelsea 67.2 and Spurs 65.1, and of course Liverpool and City both just under 90.
 

Mastadon

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Seen this earlier. Doesn't suggest we are as bad as you think. Suggests while we need to improve, converting chances is more of an issue. Hopefully new forwards help with that.

I trust what I saw with my own eyes and whatever those stats say I can tell you that we were lucky to even finish 5th based on how poor we have been this season. We won’t be this lucky again next season the performances are awful and the results will eventually catch up.
 

Sweet Square

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Whats the goal with Arteta ? Is it just to be the 4th best team in the PL ?

Even the most generous reading of Arteta time, it's pretty clear he will never beat the likes of Klopp and Pep. Tbh it's just mad that they haven't gone for Potter, at least he has some potential.
 

GoonerBear

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The xG is seems to be a typo, surely, as 69 would have you 3rd in the league. Fbref has your xG down as 59.9 which is good for 5th in the league behind Chelsea 67.2 and Spurs 65.1, and of course Liverpool and City both just under 90.
Not sure to be honest, just posted what I seen. So have we out scored our xG according to Fbref?

I trust what I saw with my own eyes and whatever those stats say I can tell you that we were lucky to even finish 5th based on how poor we have been this season. We won’t be this lucky again next season the performances are awful and the results will eventually catch up.
One habit we need to get out of is how streaky we are. Lose the first 3 games, go unbeaten the next 8 winning 6, then lose 3 out of 4, then we win 9 out the next 11, then lose 4 from 5, then win the next 4 etc.
 

Maluco

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If players like Elneny, Tavares and Cedric start the next season as back ups for the injury prone players, it will be the same story again.
 

WeePat

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Not sure to be honest, just posted what I seen. So have we out scored our xG according to Fbref?
Yeah by a couple of goals. As did both Chelsea, Spurs and pretty much everyone in the top half except Brighton.
 

GoonerBear

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If players like Elneny, Tavares and Cedric start the next season as back ups for the injury prone players, it will be the same story again.
Yep, totally agree. Too big a drop in quality.
 

awop

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Whats the goal with Arteta ? Is it just to be the 4th best team in the PL ?

Even the most generous reading of Arteta time, it's pretty clear he will never beat the likes of Klopp and Pep. Tbh it's just mad that they haven't gone for Potter, at least he has some potential.
Some potential to do what exactly? Beat the likes of Klopp and Pep ? Potter is becoming this living myth that he must be wonderful with a bit more money.
Us ? No, no, no but everyone else should try it, he'd be great ! Eddie Howe mkII.
 

AshRK

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Some potential to do what exactly? Beat the likes of Klopp and Pep ? Potter is becoming this living myth that he must be wonderful with a bit more money.
Us ? No, no, no but everyone else should try it, he'd be great ! Eddie Howe mkII.
He is better than Arteta for sure. Better football with a much inferior squad. Has a clear identity and has done a fabulous job at Brighton. Even eddie Howe is better than Arteta aka see Newcastle and his Bournemouth side. Both are much better manager than Arteta. Not saying they will help you beat Pep or Klopp but you could fare better with them at the helm.
 

Sweet Square

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Some potential to do what exactly? Beat the likes of Klopp and Pep ? Potter is becoming this living myth that he must be wonderful with a bit more money.
Us ? No, no, no but everyone else should try it, he'd be great ! Eddie Howe mkII.
There's more of a chance(Even if it's a very very slim one)happening under Potter than with Arteta. United have been shite for years now but there has always been the idea that the end goal will be winning the league, maybe I'm wrong here but with Arteta there doesn't even seem even the hope Arsenal could win a league title with him as manager.
 

romufc

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Some potential to do what exactly? Beat the likes of Klopp and Pep ? Potter is becoming this living myth that he must be wonderful with a bit more money.
Us ? No, no, no but everyone else should try it, he'd be great ! Eddie Howe mkII.
I mean its because Arsenal fail to lure the best managers. Howe has shown what he can do this season.

Also, didn't Arsenal's board come out and say they have over achieved this season?

2.5 seasons after being in charge, Europa league is over achieving?
 

Nish115

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I trust what I saw with my own eyes and whatever those stats say I can tell you that we were lucky to even finish 5th based on how poor we have been this season. We won’t be this lucky again next season the performances are awful and the results will eventually catch up.
This is a load of rubbish.

How were we lucky to finish 5th, when every single metric has us finishing 5th on average? That isn't luck at all. We were much better than the sides below us, end of.

We've had bad performances. Brighton, Palace, Spurs and Newcastle away were by far the worst performances (excluding the first 3 games).

But beyond those 4 games, we weren't that poor overall. And it's no coincidence all 4 of those grounds are high intensity away games, and where we failed. It comes down to lack of experience in large part.
 

Nish115

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Whats the goal with Arteta ? Is it just to be the 4th best team in the PL ?

Even the most generous reading of Arteta time, it's pretty clear he will never beat the likes of Klopp and Pep. Tbh it's just mad that they haven't gone for Potter, at least he has some potential.
Who will beat Klopp and Pep?

Why go for Potter? There is absolutely no guarentee he'd be better than Arteta. Arteta also has potential.

If there was a guarenteed elite manager available, i'd be open to that move, but there isn't.
 

Nish115

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If players like Elneny, Tavares and Cedric start the next season as back ups for the injury prone players, it will be the same story again.
If we sign Hickey I imagine he'll be backup to the two full backs. And, if we sign a midfielder to replace Xhaka, I imagine Xhaka takes up Elnenys old slot.

So whilst those 3 players might be here still, they'll be knocked down a level in terms of where they play.
 

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I've always felt Roberto Martinez would be the perfect manager for Arsenal.
 

SER19

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Didn't help that players and arteta started behaving like they were taking a title race to the wire around March on the basis of possibly finishing 4th. Fans even worse
 

amolbhatia50k

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Some potential to do what exactly? Beat the likes of Klopp and Pep ? Potter is becoming this living myth that he must be wonderful with a bit more money.
Us ? No, no, no but everyone else should try it, he'd be great ! Eddie Howe mkII.
Eddie Howe has been super at Newcastle. Would have him over Arteta any day of the week.
 

awop

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He is better than Arteta for sure. Better football with a much inferior squad. Has a clear identity and has done a fabulous job at Brighton. Even eddie Howe is better than Arteta aka see Newcastle and his Bournemouth side. Both are much better manager than Arteta. Not saying they will help you beat Pep or Klopp but you could fare better with them at the helm.
Fantasy Football. Howe bill be cashing his Saudi check as soon as they get some higher caliber players.A bigger job for Potter could only be Leicester or Spurs if Conte does a madness. We always want the small unknown dude to become great, but i'll wait till i see it.
There's more of a chance(Even if it's a very very slim one)happening under Potter than with Arteta. United have been shite for years now but there has always been the idea that the end goal will be winning the league, maybe I'm wrong here but with Arteta there doesn't even seem even the hope Arsenal could win a league title with him as manager.
If by slim you mean 0.002% instead of 0.001% then ok. Not sure it's worth the trouble/gamble. Winning the league is the end goal of 6 maybe 7 clubs but realistically only 3 per year can really do it. And nor Arsenal or United are in that top 3 at the moment. It can change and will change but appointing Potter anywhere is definitely not the catalyst to that change.It is pure delusion or wum baiting to say so when you're facing these 2 monsters.
I mean its because Arsenal fail to lure the best managers. Howe has shown what he can do this season.

Also, didn't Arsenal's board come out and say they have over achieved this season?

2.5 seasons after being in charge, Europa league is over achieving?
What has he shown ? That he can save a club from relegation ? Great ! Not sure who we actively pursued and "failed" to lure to Arsenal. Ancelotti would be a massive stretch and i'm not even sure he was really wanted (rightly or wrongly).
 

amolbhatia50k

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Who will beat Klopp and Pep?

Why go for Potter? There is absolutely no guarentee he'd be better than Arteta. Arteta also has potential.

If there was a guarenteed elite manager available, i'd be open to that move, but there isn't.
Conte was available
 

amolbhatia50k

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Fantasy Football. Howe bill be cashing his Saudi check as soon as they get some higher caliber players.A bigger job for Potter could only be Leicester or Spurs if Conte does a madness. We always want the small unknown dude to become great, but i'll wait till i see it.
If by slim you mean 0.002% instead of 0.001% then ok. Not sure it's worth the trouble/gamble. Winning the league is the end goal of 6 maybe 7 clubs but realistically only 3 per year can really do it. And nor Arsenal or United are in that top 3 at the moment. It can change and will change but appointing Potter anywhere is definitely not the catalyst to that change.It is pure delusion or wum baiting to say so when you're facing these 2 monsters.

What has he shown ? That he can save a club from relegation ? Great ! Not sure who we actively pursued and "failed" to lure to Arsenal. Ancelotti would be a massive stretch and i'm not even sure he was really wanted (rightly or wrongly).
Arteta is a very small dude. Living off one cup win for 3 years now.
 

Sweet Square

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Who will beat Klopp and Pep?

Why go for Potter? There is absolutely no guarentee he'd be better than Arteta. Arteta also has potential.

If there was a guarenteed elite manager available, i'd be open to that move, but there isn't.
Does he ?

A part for a FA cup win at the start of time as manager everything else has been a bit of disappointment, right ? The league finishes have been awful and this season was his best chance of getting top 4(United in meltdown, Spurs having to bring in a new manager and Arsenal only had the league to focus on all season)and he failed. Maybe next season is make or break for him but I can't see him improving on this season.


If by slim you mean 0.002% instead of 0.001% then ok. Not sure it's worth the trouble/gamble.
It's not really a gamble when your dealing with these types of odd. You play pretty shite boring football and can't finish in the top 4th, for most ''top'' clubs Arteta would be sacked already.
 

Cascarino

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Potter is great, and I've long championed him on here. But Arteta obviously should be kept on for next season. He had a good transfer window last summer, and despite not being able to attract the caliber of player the CL clubs could (or the clubs that can pay very big wages), they identified young players who could make an impact. Missing out on top 4 makes the summer a lot trickier though, they're going to have to do the same again, whereas CL football could have helped a lot.

This forum is fairly clueless when it comes to managers, Howe was getting slated when Newcastle went for him despite being an obviously good manager. When I mentioned Potter for United I was ridiculed.

There's more of a chance(Even if it's a very very slim one)happening under Potter than with Arteta. United have been shite for years now but there has always been the idea that the end goal will be winning the league, maybe I'm wrong here but with Arteta there doesn't even seem even the hope Arsenal could win a league title with him as manager.
Financially they're in different worlds though. People go on about transfer fees but wages are the big indicator, United have a wage bill well over double that of Arsenal. Even with United being shite they're still a juggernaut, and will always be an attractive club for players.
 

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Who will beat Klopp and Pep?

Why go for Potter? There is absolutely no guarentee he'd be better than Arteta. Arteta also has potential.

If there was a guarenteed elite manager available, i'd be open to that move, but there isn't.
Zidane
Rooney
Simeone
Conte
Rodgers
Martinez

Theres loads of managers better than Arteta
 

Red the Bear

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Zidane
Rooney
Simeone
Conte
Rodgers
Martinez

Theres loads of managers better than Arteta
To be fair I doubt managers of the caliber of Zidane and conte would the Arsenal job.
Though there were reports of conte being open to a move there so who knows.
 

Nish115

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Zidane
Rooney
Simeone
Conte
Rodgers
Martinez

Theres loads of managers better than Arteta
Rooney? Martinez? Rodgers?

Yh, okay.

Absolutely baffles me that, after Arteta gets a team who were predicted to finish 8th, to 5th, he's still being slated as being worse than Martinez and Rooney, and a Rodgers who most Leicester fans don't even rate much anymore.
 

awop

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Arteta is a very small dude. Living off one cup win for 3 years now.
He's 5"8 which is respectable. One cup win is a good return for the absolutely rubbish manager that Arteta is. Better than some bigger names.
Conte was available. Alongside his well known baggage of talking shit about everyone and everything every weekend. The big Manchester United were too scared to appoint him.
He's the perfect Chelsea manager, come in, win, burn it all down, cash in. I think he'll do the same at Spurs without the winning part for obvious reasons.
 

awop

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Zidane
Rooney
Simeone
Conte
Rodgers
Martinez

Theres loads of managers better than Arteta
United could not convince Zidane with a blank check.
Simeone who is on one of the biggest contract ever for a manager and is a cult figure at Atletico
Conte: already explained
Rodgers: clueless enveloppe master
Martinez: ridiculed at some point in every of his stint. International football is different than club football but he couldn't do anything with KdB Lukaku Hazard. There's a reason his CV reads Swansea-Wigan-Everton :rolleyes:

Anyway, he just signed a new contract, he's here to stay for at least another year unless things go horribly wrong. Time will come when we need to upgrade and i'm fairly confident it won't be for Potter or Wayne Rooney :lol:
 

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Rooney? Martinez? Rodgers?

Yh, okay.

Absolutely baffles me that, after Arteta gets a team who were predicted to finish 8th, to 5th, he's still being slated as being worse than Martinez and Rooney, and a Rodgers who most Leicester fans don't even rate much anymore.
Do you think Arteta could do the job Rooney has done at Derby?
 

Sweet Square

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Financially they're in different worlds though. People go on about transfer fees but wages are the big indicator, United have a wage bill well over double that of Arsenal. Even with United being shite they're still a juggernaut, and will always be an attractive club for players.
Fair point(Although some of the United wage bill is down to how badly run we are). Are Arsenal that much further behind than Liverpool in terms of finances ? Klopp is great but Pool aren't just one man machine who do everything he says. As an outsider it just seems weird for a club to be sticking with a manager that almost everyone agrees has no chance of winning anything other maybe the odd domestic cup. What the risk of getting rid of him and trying someone else(They've tied him down with a new contract this season, which is mad).
 

awop

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Fair point(Although some of the United wage bill is down to how badly run we are). Are Arsenal that much further behind than Liverpool in terms of finances ? Klopp is great but Pool aren't just one man machine who do everything he says. As an outsider it just seems weird for a club to be sticking with a manager that almost everyone agrees has no chance of winning anything other maybe the odd domestic cup. What the risk of getting rid of him and trying someone else(They've tied him down with a new contract this season, which is mad).
Do you think United or Spurs have a chance at winning anything other than the odd domestic cup next season or the one after ?
 
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