Arsenal 2021/22

GoonerBear

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It all depends, so far they haven’t improved their starting 11 from last season. White is not an upgrade on Luiz and the new kid they signed is not an upgrade on Xhaka.
I think Xhaka's replacement has still to be bought, hence the Locatelli offer. I think it will probably be someone like Neves mind you. I also think we'll sign an attacking midfielder, Maddison, Odegaard look difficult to do so perhaps even back in for Aouar. I also think we might go late for a right back if Inter pay up for Bellerin.
 

ThatsGreat

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If it becomes the case that they sack Arteta, i wonder if they will give it another go by hiring Conte or another available big manager or if they will give up.
There is still something that can be done with that group. The end of this transfer window will be key though.
White, Maddison, a CM and a starting RB are necessary. But that's close to 180/200M, we'd need every deal to be structured very favourably ala Ben White.
Yes, thats possible. They might hope for a Tuchel effect.
 

awop

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They don't really have any strong personalities or characters (i.e. leaders) to guide them through the campaign.
Our 2 biggests leaders were the 2 biggest culprits in brainfarts last season... Now we only have Tierney that is captain material assuming Bellerin is leaving.
Auba getting the armband only works when he can lead by example and hammer goals in. If he's exiled on the wing, working like a fullback with no service, he gets extremely annoyed and not a a great leading figure.
Hopefully Ben White and the future CM can have some of these qualities about them.
 

edcunited1878

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Our 2 biggests leaders were the 2 biggest culprits in brainfarts last season... Now we only have Tierney that is captain material assuming Bellerin is leaving.
Auba getting the armband only works when he can lead by example and hammer goals in. If he's exiled on the wing, working like a fullback with no service, he gets extremely annoyed and not a a great leading figure.
Hopefully Ben White and the future CM can have some of these qualities about them.
Tierney is fine, but he's still a young player regardless of his experience with Celtic. Auba is a very good goal scorer, but his personality and leadership qualities are not good. He sulks when it's not going his way and you can see it. He doesn't just get on with it and truly lead by example through good and bad. Ben White is too young and has zero credibility in terms of leading a group like Arsenal.

When shit hits the fan, who are the 3 to 4 players that you can count on to truly galvanize your players inside that group? United have Maguire, Mata, Matic, Cavani, Rashford, Bruno.

Arsenal would do great and overachieve by finishing 5th.
 

Javi

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Arsenal fans at work still think top 4 is doable. Their delusion is higher than Liverpool fans.
Same here. Hyping each other up about incoming players and youngsters. White already better than Stones apparently.
 

Sea-Cow

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Tierney is fine, but he's still a young player regardless of his experience with Celtic. Auba is a very good goal scorer, but his personality and leadership qualities are not good. He sulks when it's not going his way and you can see it. He doesn't just get on with it and truly lead by example through good and bad. Ben White is too young and has zero credibility in terms of leading a group like Arsenal.

When shit hits the fan, who are the 3 to 4 players that you can count on to truly galvanize your players inside that group? United have Maguire, Mata, Matic, Cavani, Rashford, Bruno.

Arsenal would do great and overachieve by finishing 5th.
I think thats entirely possible and would be a big improvement. And I mean.... Mata is really going to fire up the lads when shit hits the fan? With hugs and lovely smiles? Matic will be on the bench so not sure how that will help. Rashford will be hurt.... Maguire doesn't really seem like the shouty type. Every time they show him up close he looks on the verge of tears. And people cream about Bruno being a leader when things go well and he scores or assists as part of a comeback (which to be fair happened quite often last season) but he is just as likely to throw tantrums when things aren't going his way.

What I'm saying is I think that the importance of leadership stuff is vastly overrated and its usually applied retroactively. United finish second? It must be partly because of our leaders galvanizing the group. Arsenal finish in 7th or whatever? Obviously they have no leaders.
 

edcunited1878

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I think thats entirely possible and would be a big improvement. And I mean.... Mata is really going to fire up the lads when shit hits the fan? With hugs and lovely smiles? Matic will be on the bench so not sure how that will help. Rashford will be hurt.... Maguire doesn't really seem like the shouty type. Every time they show him up close he looks on the verge of tears. And people cream about Bruno being a leader when things go well and he scores or assists as part of a comeback (which to be fair happened quite often last season) but he is just as likely to throw tantrums when things aren't going his way.

What I'm saying is I think that the importance of leadership stuff is vastly overrated and its usually applied retroactively. United finish second? It must be partly because of our leaders galvanizing the group. Arsenal finish in 7th or whatever? Obviously they have no leaders.
The fact that you half-heartedly joke about elder statesmen who have won the lot and have a slight dig at them just shows what little awareness you have as it pertains to leadership in an athletic setting, especially something as competitive and top level as Premier League football. You have the abrasive and loud leaders, but you'll always have the lead by example leaders who help build accountability and personality every single day, not just match day, not just for a few hours on a weekend.

It's not applied retroactively, it's applied every day and that's what creates a culture. Arsenal's football culture is, for a lack of a better word....shit. Tell me I'm wrong, please...because I'm not. We can all see it when they play and when Arteta speaks. We can see it how he looks. Remember when Arsenal beat United 1-nil at OT thanks to a Pogba foul in the box? Yeah, I do it. One team dug their way out and became better over a longer period of time because they had the leadership and vision and belief....the other team went towards the deep end of the table.
 

awop

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The fact that you half-heartedly joke about elder statesmen who have won the lot and have a slight dig at them just shows what little awareness you have as it pertains to leadership in an athletic setting, especially something as competitive and top level as Premier League football. You have the abrasive and loud leaders, but you'll always have the lead by example leaders who help build accountability and personality every single day, not just match day, not just for a few hours on a weekend.

It's not applied retroactively, it's applied every day and that's what creates a culture. Arsenal's football culture is, for a lack of a better word....shit. Tell me I'm wrong, please...because I'm not. We can all see it when they play and when Arteta speaks. We can see it how he looks. Remember when Arsenal beat United 1-nil at OT thanks to a Pogba foul in the box? Yeah, I do it. One team dug their way out and became better over a longer period of time because they had the leadership and vision and belief....the other team went towards the deep end of the table.
Your group being vastly better than ours had a bigger role in our respective trajectories. Leaders are important but when they get red carded or concede a penalty every 6 games, no speech or clapping session will get you those points back.
Why would you even have a ore season tour in US during these times. Stupid decision.
Stan brings his toy to him, he has no time to sit around in the grey rainy London.
 

mancsarered

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Is the Amazon doc released periodically as the season progresses or all at once after it ends?
 

edcunited1878

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Your group being vastly better than ours had a bigger role in our respective trajectories. Leaders are important but when they get red carded or concede a penalty every 6 games, no speech or clapping session will get you those points back.

Stan brings his toy to him, he has no time to sit around in the grey rainy London.
Because good leaders, usually those with good talent, don't put your team in bad situations time and again. Sure it'll happen because they play, but Xhaka was a joke. How the club handled Ozil was just bizarre for all involved.
 

GoonerBear

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American tour during a global pandemic. Pathetic club.
It wasn't a tour, it was 2 games in Orlando at the same location. There's still clubs travelling, Liverpool are in Austria just now, & there's several foreign clubs coming over here for a game.
 

choccy77

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It wasn't a tour, it was 2 games in Orlando at the same location. There's still clubs travelling, Liverpool are in Austria just now, & there's several foreign clubs coming over here for a game.
True. I saw the Dinghy's arriving at Dover on the news.
 

ShoePolish

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Think he's not really that bad as made out. Arse got far more deadwood than we had at our worst, and seems like they're shopping in Aldi this summer. In terms of players out, I think he's getting it right (not sure about giving Aubameyang that big contract though).
 

Sea-Cow

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The fact that you half-heartedly joke about elder statesmen who have won the lot and have a slight dig at them just shows what little awareness you have as it pertains to leadership in an athletic setting, especially something as competitive and top level as Premier League football. You have the abrasive and loud leaders, but you'll always have the lead by example leaders who help build accountability and personality every single day, not just match day, not just for a few hours on a weekend.

It's not applied retroactively, it's applied every day and that's what creates a culture. Arsenal's football culture is, for a lack of a better word....shit. Tell me I'm wrong, please...because I'm not. We can all see it when they play and when Arteta speaks. We can see it how he looks. Remember when Arsenal beat United 1-nil at OT thanks to a Pogba foul in the box? Yeah, I do it. One team dug their way out and became better over a longer period of time because they had the leadership and vision and belief....the other team went towards the deep end of the table.
Were Mata and Matic leading when we were struggling with Jose? Did they just decide to stop leading when LVG got sacked? Then Ole gets hired and they decide to start leading again?

And regarding Arsenal -- I can't tell you if you're wrong or not about their "culture" (another very fuzzy concept....) but I can tell you that you have no idea! You aren't at training, or in the dressing room! And are you saying that the only reason that our season progressed after losing to Arsenal and their season tanked is due to "leadership"? Nothing else played any part of it? I'm skeptical mate.
 

Dan-Utd

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I think Arteta is too much of a quiet / nice guy personality, the majority of managers who win things all have a little random crazy side to them, Klopp did the "boommmm" thing, Ranieri doing the "dilly ding dilly dong" thing, Sari had rants, Fergie had rants, the original Mourinho had rants, Pep has had rants.

Everyone can rant but the difference I see in the ones I've just mentioned are you sometimes think to yourself "what was the point of that rant" and that makes me think they can push buttons in the dressing room and get their players fired up.

So for me Arteta is like Ole, will struggle to man manage big personalities consistently for 50 games per season.

I expect some of the teams that did better with no fans last season will struggle with fans being back, with that in mind I think Arsenal who struggled will benefit with their fans behind them and finish 6th.
 

Rooney in Paris

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Leadership and culture aren't fuzzy concepts, they're an integral part of a team's (any team in any professional context) fortunes and dynamics.

Also planning games in the US :lol: seriously that club
 

Zaphod2319

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You also have teams on the raise like West Ham and Leeds. Leicester and Tottenham were stronger teams than Arsenal last year. They are building on young players… that is always a roll of the dice. If they get any European football at the end of the year, they will definitely have earned it.
 

Giggsy13

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It seems they blew their transfer budget on Ben White. Good signing but clearly overpaid for him. They should be better though and I see a top 6 or 7 finish. I think they’re a few years away from competing for top 4.
 

Giggsy13

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I think Arteta is too much of a quiet / nice guy personality, the majority of managers who win things all have a little random crazy side to them, Klopp did the "boommmm" thing, Ranieri doing the "dilly ding dilly dong" thing, Sari had rants, Fergie had rants, the original Mourinho had rants, Pep has had rants.

Everyone can rant but the difference I see in the ones I've just mentioned are you sometimes think to yourself "what was the point of that rant" and that makes me think they can push buttons in the dressing room and get their players fired up.

So for me Arteta is like Ole, will struggle to man manage big personalities consistently for 50 games per season.

I expect some of the teams that did better with no fans last season will struggle with fans being back, with that in mind I think Arsenal who struggled will benefit with their fans behind them and finish 6th.
A thread on arsenal but let’s have a dig at Ole…nice. Ridiculous take when Ole’s man management has largely been lauded by even his detractors.
 

RedPed

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Why would you even have a ore season tour in US during these times. Stupid decision.
Arsenal are all about the paper these days...nothing more. £7.99 for each of their pre-season games?? Come on.
 

GoonerBear

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It seems they blew their transfer budget on Ben White. Good signing but clearly overpaid for him. They should be better though and I see a top 6 or 7 finish. I think they’re a few years away from competing for top 4.
Don't think the budget is blown, there's allegedly an offer on the table for Locatelli for instance. We are also linked to attacking midfielders like Aouar. And a back up goalkeeper.
 

Lay

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Don't think the budget is blown, there's allegedly an offer on the table for Locatelli for instance. We are also linked to attacking midfielders like Aouar. And a back up goalkeeper.
I would have thought Arsenal would be in for a striker. Lacazette and Aubameyang are/were good players but Aubameyang seems to have stopped trying and Lacazette won’t score 15-20 goals
 
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GoonerBear

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I would have thought Arsenal would be in for a striker. Lacazette and Aubameyang are/were good players but they Aubameyang seems to have stopped trying and Lacazette won’t score 15-20 goals
Think it's more the fact that we'll struggle to shift either this window with the wages they are on to be honest. Think we will sell Nketiah, Balogun will get some minutes, & Martinelli might get some minutes up top as well.

Id imagine they might wait to next summer to address that, Lacazette will be out of contract, Aubameyang will only have a year left then.
 

edcunited1878

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Were Mata and Matic leading when we were struggling with Jose? Did they just decide to stop leading when LVG got sacked? Then Ole gets hired and they decide to start leading again?

And regarding Arsenal -- I can't tell you if you're wrong or not about their "culture" (another very fuzzy concept....) but I can tell you that you have no idea! You aren't at training, or in the dressing room! And are you saying that the only reason that our season progressed after losing to Arsenal and their season tanked is due to "leadership"? Nothing else played any part of it? I'm skeptical mate.
United suffered the big year 3 implosion under Jose. The setup under Jose was never going to work unless he got what he wanted. Yet he won silverware Year 1, and finished 2nd Year 2. Mata and Matic are still here because they lead and they are model professionals that all football players have respect for. Just because your team isn't successful as a group doesn't mean you have a lack of leaders. As we can attest with Arsenal, the leadership pales equally with their talent.

Ashley Young and Valencia stayed so much longer at United because they were leaders and professionals, through thick and thin. They also were club captains and captained the side many times. Similar to Matic and Mata, who have captained the playing side.

Arsenal have nice, young talent. But no real shepherds to guide them and groom them, to take the heat off them, to protect them. A manager can only do so much protecting, because players have to have that protectorship and accountability within their own ranks. Auba and Lacazette are good players, but even with the two of them on the park together, they haven't been able to get it done over the course of a campaign. Martinelli is young, but is he really going to overtake Auba or Lacazette? Only by merit. Pepe is the club transfer record, yet cedes his place to younger players, and rightfully so. Who is going to help Arteta manage him and get him in the right frame of mind?

There's a nice core of young players Arsenal have, but they too need to continue to keep improving a lot and mature at a fast rate if they want to finish Top 6, which would be a great accomplishment for them.
 

GoonerBear

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Also, can I just point out, that despite a disaster of a season up to Xmas, we finished 5 points behind Leicester in 5th, so it's not like it's a massive jump needed.
 

MO_Football92

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I genuinely expect Arsenal to do an Arsenal,

Probably start decent, hit a decent bit of form somewhere in the season but ultimately will finish 6th at best,

They wont come close to Us, City, Pool, Chelsea or Leicester. The best they can fight for is the who has the biggest d*** in North London trophy with Spurs .
Although Arsenal haven't been doing well lately and Arteta is an inexperienced manager who makes poor decisions. But to say a team consisting of Partey, Saka, Tierney, Pepe and Auba isn't can't come close to United or Leicester is another level of stupidity. Only thing holding these players back is poor coaching.
 

Mogget

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The fact that you half-heartedly joke about elder statesmen who have won the lot and have a slight dig at them just shows what little awareness you have as it pertains to leadership in an athletic setting, especially something as competitive and top level as Premier League football. You have the abrasive and loud leaders, but you'll always have the lead by example leaders who help build accountability and personality every single day, not just match day, not just for a few hours on a weekend.

It's not applied retroactively, it's applied every day and that's what creates a culture. Arsenal's football culture is, for a lack of a better word....shit. Tell me I'm wrong, please...because I'm not. We can all see it when they play and when Arteta speaks. We can see it how he looks. Remember when Arsenal beat United 1-nil at OT thanks to a Pogba foul in the box? Yeah, I do it. One team dug their way out and became better over a longer period of time because they had the leadership and vision and belief....the other team went towards the deep end of the table.
We won a trophy recently under Arteta and I'm pretty sure you're yet to win anything with Ole.

How does this fit into your "leadership" theory, baring in mind your squad is much better than ours? Where were your leaders against Villarreal?

I have to admit, the armchair psychology experts on this forum will never cease to make me laugh