Arsenal 22/23 - go to new thread

[awop]

Having reviewed the chat you’re being disingenuous. The argument is, given your spend & hype [although finishing 5th last season was a disgrace]. . .


Read it properly. You should be making a title challenge based on spend & talent but you’re being called plucky underdogs for some reason. Two points are made there, A) Top 4 shouldn’t be an issue for you; B) A better manager would challenge with that squad.

Nope. Not even close.
A)Top 4 will be an issue for at least 3 clubs of the top 6.
B) No need for a better manager to challenge.Arteta is the manager. Arteta challenged for it and failed. If you mean a better manager will get it 100%, then i don't know. Maybe ? Who knows ? Dream scenarios are useless, you make do with what you got until you can upgrade. This is not the moment we do that (yet).

I know Arsenal are playing well but wouldn’t they be better off facing teams that aren’t undercooked in pre season? I don't know how much planning goes into these games but the intensity can’t be there

Apparently we made 6/8M from the US Tour so that's probably the extent of the planning. more about conditioning and bonding. Chelsea and Sevilla were really dissapointing, they were supposed to be a contest and make the team we'll play against Palace work for it. They made the game pointless in 15min.

 

[Sweet Square]

Impressive pre season…….. which means they will lose their opening game.

 

[cyberman]

I mean.. Chelsea and Sevilla shouldn't be undercooked and these games were planned a while ago.

Yeah but they are? I know Madrid today were a few weeks behind us in terms of preparation and that’s why we have another extra game tomorrow. Same as our extra game last week.
IM just basing this off Atleticos fitness, for all I know Sevilla could be further on

 

[mancan92]

I know Arsenal are playing well but wouldn’t they be better off facing teams that aren’t undercooked in pre season? I don't know how much planning goes into these games but the intensity can’t be there

They played Chelsea and sevilla who have the same preparation as athletico who we just lost to.

 

[Chief123]

They’ve got problems in central midfield with the potential long absence of Partey.

A midfield of Xhaka and Elneny is underwhelming.

 

[JustAGuest]

Arsenal are looking really sharp this season. They bought well and have done lots of prep, and are definitelymuch stronger than last season. I'll be very surprised if they fail to make top 4.

Who do they finish ahead of? It's not a big surprise if they once again finish behind Spurs and Chelsea (not to mention United).

 

[cyberman]

They played Chelsea and sevilla who have the same preparation as athletico who we just lost to.

Chelsea fans, and Tuchel, have been complaining about being undercooked and not having enough games this summer. We outran Atletico until 257 changes in the 60tth minute.

 

[Chief123]

Are some here really having Arsenal as title contenders?!

Absolutely no chance they are winning the league. They are even thinner in attack than us. One injury to Jesus, Saka or Martinelli and they got big problems. Not to mention their weak defensive midfield options.

Id say they have as much chance of winning the league as us.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Boom bust cycle starting early this year

 

[Nish115]

Are some here really having Arsenal as title contenders?!

Absolutely no chance they are winning the league. They are even thinner in attack than us. One injury to Jesus, Saka or Martinelli and they got big problems. Not to mention their weak defensive midfield options.

Id say they have as much chance of winning the league as us.

I mean I am pretty sure nobody has said that here bar 1 or 2 joke comments so no..

We do need another DM and Winger though, agreed.

 

[mancan92]

Chelsea fans, and Tuchel, have been complaining about being undercooked and not having enough games this summer. We outran Atletico until 257 changes in the 60tth minute.

Your point makes no sense accept it. Whether Chelsea are happy with their pre season or not doesn't matter they have had the same amount of fitness training and arsenal beat sevilla 6-0 which is pretty far away from us outrunning athletico for half the match.

 

[duffer]

Are some here really having Arsenal as title contenders?!

No.

 

[Oranges038]

Title winners?

Even if they did, we all know Liverpool will still be the team to beat.

 

[cyberman]

Your point makes no sense accept it. Whether Chelsea are happy with their pre season or not doesn't matter they have had the same amount of fitness training and arsenal beat sevilla 6-0 which is pretty far away from us outrunning athletico for half the match.

Arsenal had their first game in July 2 compared to Chelsea in 17th July. Arsenal had twice as many pre season games under their belt than Chelsea ahead of their matches. We both faced Spanish sides who are weeks behind us in preparation today.
Where’s your logic? By Tuchels own words they were undercooked heading into the Udinese game never mind Arsenal.
What I’m saying is results doesn’t matter in pre season. Sticking six past a Sevilla side or getting into a battle v Atletico has its own benefits so yes, outrunning Atletico when the entire pre season is built around stamina and pressing is a great workout for us
Use some common sense next time.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

They'll finish above us.

 

[Nish115]

Arsenal had their first game in July 2 compared to Chelsea in 17th July. Arsenal had twice as many pre season games under their belt than Chelsea ahead of their matches. We both faced Spanish sides who are weeks behind us in preparation today.
Where’s your logic? By Tuchels own words they were undercooked heading into the Udinese game never mind Arsenal.
What I’m saying is results doesn’t matter in pre season. Sticking six past a Sevilla side or getting into a battle v Atletico has its own benefits so yes, outrunning Atletico when the entire pre season is built around stamina and pressing is a great workout for us
Use some common sense next time.

I'm pretty sure most these games are planned before July..

I think in April/May they plan the pre-season fixtures, and we were always going to the States where Chelsea were the best team to play.

Seville was partly because of Reyes and a tribute to him.

I don't even get your point really, seems.. well pointless.

 

[Flexdegea]

I mean.. Chelsea and Sevilla shouldn't be undercooked and these games were planned a while ago.

When did arsenal fans become the most fragile sensitive fans about?


Now pre season is very important, Emirates cup in the bag, could challenge

 

[Nish115]

When did arsenal fans become the most fragile sensitive fans about?


Now pre season is very important, Emirates cup in the bag, could challenge

The guy asked a question, and he got a reply.

This is a forum for discussion no?

Such a bizarre take

 

[VP89]

When did arsenal fans become the most fragile sensitive fans about?


Now pre season is very important, Emirates cup in the bag, could challenge

Whats your problem with him answering a question?

 

[GoonerBear]

Pre season is pre season, results don't really matter. However, you do want to see certain things of pre season. Are your players looking fit and sharp going into the season? Are new players settling? Are you seeing patterns of play, styles that should be a basis of how your looking to play this season.

For this it's been a good pre season. Now, we could go to Palace on Friday and get beat, no one is saying otherwise. But I think we're at least going into Friday looking better prepared than we did last season, when pre season was a bit of a shambles and that just spilled into the early games of the actual season.

So considering where we were this time last year, I know where I'd rather be out the 2.

 

[Nish115]

Yh I don't care about the results. I care about the fitness levels and that the new signings are bedding in well, both of which seem good.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Nope. Not even close.
A)Top 4 will be an issue for at least 3 clubs of the top 6.
B) No need for a better manager to challenge.Arteta is the manager. Arteta challenged for it and failed. If you mean a better manager will get it 100%, then i don't know. Maybe ? Who knows ? Dream scenarios are useless, you make do with what you got until you can upgrade. This is not the moment we do that (yet).

So if you don’t need a better manager to challenge why can your expensively assembled bunch that are getting every plaudit possible for a pre-season your not challenge then?

You’re trying to have your cake & eat it. Top 4 is hard but in the next breath you’ve got a good enough management structure to win the league. . .

 

[Chief123]

I personally think City will runaway with the league and it’ll be one of the tightest races ever for the remaining 3 positions fought out between 5 teams.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Sweet summer child. We'll find a way.

 

[Daydreamer]

I know Arsenal are playing well but wouldn’t they be better off facing teams that aren’t undercooked in pre season? I don't know how much planning goes into these games but the intensity can’t be there

I mean.. Chelsea and Sevilla shouldn't be undercooked and these games were planned a while ago.

I’m disappointed in you, Nish. Responding to a fair question with a reasonable reply is not the type of behaviour I expect to see on a football forum.

 

[Charles Miller]

Taking a look at Arsenal Mania they seem to be developing a very childish mentality. Gabriel Jesus said on an interview that he doesn't wanna be a superstar, that he is just part of a group and they are furious at him. Apparently they expect some trash talk WWE style from their players.

 

[awop]

So if you don’t need a better manager to challenge why can your expensively assembled bunch that are getting every plaudit possible for a pre-season your not challenge then?

You’re trying to have your cake & eat it. Top 4 is hard but in the next breath you’ve got a good enough management structure to win the league. . .

The only challenge we're in for is Top 4. We don't need a better manager to challenge for Top 4 since we already did last year and now have by all acounts have an improved group.So we will challenge for Top 4 again this season.
I'm not trying anything, you just misunderstood what i wrote. No one in their right mind is talking about the league.

 

[GoonerBear]

So if you don’t need a better manager to challenge why can your expensively assembled bunch that are getting every plaudit possible for a pre-season your not challenge then?

You’re trying to have your cake & eat it. Top 4 is hard but in the next breath you’ve got a good enough management structure to win the league. . .

Why you talking about our expensively assembled bunch like it's any more expensive than the rest of the top 6?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

The only challenge we're in for is Top 4. We don't need a better manager to challenge for Top 4 since we already did last year and now have by all acounts have an improved group.So we will challenge for Top 4 again this season.
I'm not trying anything, you just misunderstood what i wrote. No one in their right mind is talking about the league.

See below & thanks for clarifying the Arteta stance, he wasn’t good enough last year or the year before but let’s ignore previous performances.

I don’t expect Arsenal to challenge for the league [most rational people wouldn’t] but the squad you’ve assembled & money spent aren’t that of a plucky underdog. You don’t spend the money you have to lose out to Spurs for 4th on the final day again. Top 4 isn’t the aim this year for your lot it’s the bare minimum.

Why you talking about our expensively assembled bunch like it's any more expensive than the rest of the top 6?

Because it’s just as expensive, so I’m not sure why you’re talking like you’re some plucky underdog. You’ve spent a fair amount of money & have good youth players; in the grand scheme of United being dreadful & Spurs being managed by Nuno you should have gotten Top 4 last year but Arteta is teflon & got even more money to splurge.

So now it’s, ‘Other clubs spent money too so Arteta can have the bare minimum expectations.’ ready made excuse.

All I’m saying is, the days of Wenger penny pinching are long gone & you outspent many last year, you’ve done similar this season. Title challenge? Probably not, no but don’t tell me about other clubs spend after the hype this pre-season if Arteta shits the bed again.

 

[mancan92]

Arsenal had their first game in July 2 compared to Chelsea in 17th July. Arsenal had twice as many pre season games under their belt than Chelsea ahead of their matches. We both faced Spanish sides who are weeks behind us in preparation today.
Where’s your logic? By Tuchels own words they were undercooked heading into the Udinese game never mind Arsenal.
What I’m saying is results doesn’t matter in pre season. Sticking six past a Sevilla side or getting into a battle v Atletico has its own benefits so yes, outrunning Atletico when the entire pre season is built around stamina and pressing is a great workout for us
Use some common sense next time.

If you are comparing undercooked sides your point makes no sense. We played a crystal Palace team which was missing 90% of its first team. Your point literally doesn't make sense. Also did you check how much arsenal outran sevilla or Chelsea? Nope so your general point of them facing under cooked sides compared to us is completely silly.

 

[Daydreamer]

I don’t expect Arsenal to challenge for the league [most rational people wouldn’t] but the squad you’ve assembled & money spent aren’t that of a plucky underdog. You don’t spend the money you have to lose out to Spurs for 4th on the final day again. Top 4 isn’t the aim this year for your lot it’s the bare minimum.

I’ve not seen anyone call us an plucky underdog, so that feels like a bit of a straw man.

If Top 4 isn’t an aim but a bare minimum for Arsenal, how many teams does that apply to?

 

[::sonny::]

It’s too much winning

But I’m happy for them after decades of sadness

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[horsechoker]

It’s too much winning

But I’m happy for them after decades of sadness

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Jezpeza]

I’ve not seen anyone call us an plucky underdog, so that feels like a bit of a straw man.

If Top 4 isn’t an aim but a bare minimum for Arsenal, how many teams does that apply to?

Imo It’ll be 2 top 4 spots between arsenal, utd, spurs and chelsea. All of those boards will be expecting CL qualification but i think Utd have more rope for failure than the others in the circumstances. I wouldnt want to call it at all at this time. Difficult league nowadays, teams like West Ham, Wolves, Leicester and Villa have some very good players and can get a result against any of the big teams without it being a huge shock

 

[cyberman]

If you are comparing undercooked sides your point makes no sense. We played a crystal Palace team which was missing 90% of its first team. Your point literally doesn't make sense. Also did you check how much arsenal outran sevilla or Chelsea? Nope so your general point of them facing under cooked sides compared to us is completely silly.

I’ve literally not compared them, you’ve come storming in making an argument out of nothing.
All I’ve said would it be better to have sides who weren’t undercooked (not blaming Arsenal for that ffs) like Chelsea when Tuchel says the bad performance was from players who wanted to move and to Sevilla who I summarised were further back than English clubs due to Atletico being overran by us for an hour before the changes. They had a midfield who could not get back when we won the ball high up because of it hence the many fouls.
Everything else is in your head. It’s a fact Arsenal were further on than Chelsea with their pre season preparations, it’s there in black and white for you.
We all know what manager Arteta is. I’m wondering if it would be better if they had tougher games where they could work on defensive shape, soaking up pressure and quick transitions.
If they do end up being this dominating team who pins sides back then fair enough but that’s not going to happen imo. It’s like Ten Hag trying to drill pressing into us then facing sides who Ran around at half pace making it easy.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

If Top 4 isn’t an aim but a bare minimum for Arsenal, how many teams does that apply to?

Good question. Due to the strength of the league, it’s 6 into 4 but I’d say any of the 6 that didn’t finish in the Top 4 should consider that an underachievement.

The race for Top 4 [I hate that term] won’t be won & lost in head to head games. The team that miss out will generally do worse in the games they should win so I think the 5th & 6th placed teams of the 6 would have had disappointing seasons in comparison to the others. Look at last season, United beat Spurs twice, one of those times battering them & your lot split the wins with them so did you lose out on Top 4 to Spurs because they bested you or because you had a few more games like the Palace one in you?

If this current Arsenal set up are hoping for Top 4 you may as well pack it up; you might not get it but they’re as well placed as anyone bar City & Pool.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Good question. Due to the strength of the league, it’s 6 into 4 but I’d say any of the 6 that didn’t finish in the Top 4 should consider that an underachievement.

The race for Top 4 [I hate that term] won’t be won & lost in head to head games. The team that miss out will generally do worse in the games they should win so I think the 5th & 6th placed teams of the 6 would have had disappointing seasons in comparison to the others. Look at last season, United beat Spurs twice, one of those times battering them & your lot split the wins with them so did you lose out on Top 4 to Spurs because they bested you or because you had a few more games like the Palace one in you?

If this current Arsenal set up are hoping for Top 4 you may as well pack it up; you might not get it but they’re as well placed as anyone bar City & Pool.

Yeah, exactly. That’s how competitive sports works. When the best sprinters in the world line up together only one can win so “failure” will be inevitable for half the field.

For every one of Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and United not finishing in the top four will be failure. Someone like ETH will have mitigating factors because his rebuild is still in its first season. Conte will still be relatively early on as well. Tuchel has the whole new club ownership drama to overcome. Arteta will have the least excuses of any of them (although judging by the gooners in this thread, he will have the most excuses made for him)

 

[GoonerInPeace]

Pre season results are meaningless. However there is no reason to think Arsenal cannot carry that level of performance to the premier league. We played spectacularly back to back and beat Chelsea and Sevilla 10-0 on aggregate. It not just the goals, its the press, the pinning of the other team in their own half. thats why we are optimistic, because we have been introduced to the Saka, Martinelli, Jesus front three & so far its been nothing short of phenomenal. In Saliaba nd Gabriel we have two sensational centre halfs. We have pace all around the pitch and the energy to match. We also have a manager who has a clear vision of demands effort from the players, who in turn respond.

A balance needs to be struck. One one hand the results dont mean anything, but the performance does. Its wishful thinking for our rivals to think we wont be serious candidates for 3rd place

 

[tinfish]

Why no Partey ?

Have the club dropped him ?

Not to derail the subject just want to know your midfield options, if Partey is indeed dropped you will defo need to get a CM in, an El Neny Xhaka midfield is nowhere near good enough.

According to Fabrizio, Prison FC have made an enquiry.

We need another DM in even in the event of an injury. Against Sevilla he was fantastic in the middle. No one else can do what he does. Essential a backup is bought.

 

[Bebestation]

I’ve only watched highlights but do Arsenal look like a team with a particular tactic they play with Arteta or is it more about young exciting players he has built a squad of?