Arsenal 22/23 - go to new thread

rajds89

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Just saying I think it's a bit naive to suggest we are on a higher moral ground, seeing as our hand was forced for obvious reasons.
We'll never know whether or not we'd have suspended him without those recording though so it's a mute argument.
 

Daydreamer

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That's true but as another one example, City suspended Mendy without any recordings in the public domain.
I thought Mendy was only suspended once he was charged. But I may have got that wrong.

I don’t think any clubs in the PL have suspended a player before he was charged, with the exception of Greenwood. And that’s because recordings of the event in question were in the public domain.

I don’t know where United go from here. The case didn’t lack evidence, it lacked a willing witnesses. His girlfriend is now pregnant with their child so the Crown Prosecution had zero chance of winning.

It’s a legal minefield.
 

rajds89

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I thought Mendy was only suspended once he was charged. But I may have got that wrong.

I don’t think any clubs in the PL have suspended a player before he was charged, with the exception of Greenwood. And that’s because recordings of the event in question were in the public domain.

I don’t know where United go from here. The case didn’t lack evidence, it lacked a willing witnesses. His girlfriend is now pregnant with their child so the Crown Prosecution had zero chance of winning.

It’s a legal minefield.
I'm not sure myself regarding Mendy.

In my opinion though, despite the case being dropped we've all seen the distain towards the lad and the majority who say they wouldn't be comfortable seeing him in a United shirt again, myself included. I think where football is different to most other walks in life is let's say for example a large sponsor decides they aren't renewing because they don't agree with Mason playing, is Man Utd the business going to want to maybe loose out on large sums of money?
 

mathrait

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That's true but as another one example, City suspended Mendy without any recordings in the public domain.
City were forced to suspend him because he was remanded in custody (Jail). They were playing him in 2020/21 despite being on bail.
 

Daydreamer

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In general, suspending a player who hasn’t been charged with a crime is very difficult for any club. However, United could easily that argue that Greenwood brought the club into disrepute with the release of the recordings.
I'm not sure myself regarding Mendy.

In my opinion though, despite the case being dropped we've all seen the distain towards the lad and the majority who say they wouldn't be comfortable seeing him in a United shirt again, myself included. I think where football is different to most other walks in life is let's say for example a large sponsor decides they aren't renewing because they don't agree with Mason playing, is Man Utd the business going to want to maybe loose out on large sums of money?
It's such a tricky one.

Greenwood is a tremendously talented footballer and would have been worth a great deal on the open market. Now, he's probably got a negative value for United due to the reasons you've mentioned. It seems like you might just have to write it off.

I also think it's difficult to see what the club could have done differently. He seems to have had disciplinary issues from the outset. Any personality flaws he possessed are going to exacerbated by signing a £75,000 contract as a teenager. But if you didn't pay him that, I presume somebody would have. (Unless United are terrible at negotiating - I don't really know your club well enough to comment).

Just a horrible situation all round.
 

Buxton

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It’s a big lead we got on city now, but they in their best form this season. Clicking like before and added Haaland, it could well be another season where a team gets 90+ points without winning the title .
 

WeePat

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We don’t though, just another myth perpetuated by teams that are trying to find excuses for being miles behind us this season. The league games we lost to United and city didn’t have partey and we’ve been without our best player most of the season.
Who’s your best? I can’t for the life of think of a player you’ve missed for a huge chunk of the season that fits that description. I hope you don’t mean Jesus?
 

Buxton

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Who’s your best? I can’t for the life of think of a player you’ve missed for a huge chunk of the season that fits that description. I hope you don’t mean Jesus?
I know a lot of our players have stepped up in his absence , but Jesus remains our best player for me. He was by a mile the stand out player before getting injured.
 

footyfan019

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Who’s your best? I can’t for the life of think of a player you’ve missed for a huge chunk of the season that fits that description. I hope you don’t mean Jesus?
Jesus is the best player in that squad, however we have been fortunate to get trossard who doesn't drop as much in quality. With Nketiah we wouldn't be at this level.
 

WeePat

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I know a lot of our players have stepped up in his absence , but Jesus remains our best player for me. He was by a mile the stand out player before getting injured.
Jesus is the best player in that squad, however we have been fortunate to get trossard who doesn't drop as much in quality. With Nketiah we wouldn't be at this level.
He isn’t better than Saka, Partey or Odegaard. I think his absence has overrated his importance quite a bit. He’s a huge miss still, so I don’t want to downplay the impact of his absence but I would disagree that he’s your best player.
 

Daydreamer

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He isn’t better than Saka, Partey or Odegaard. I think his absence has overrated his importance quite a bit. He’s a huge miss still, so I don’t want to downplay the impact of his absence but I would disagree that he’s your best player.
I also would rate those three higher. He's our best striker, though. And when he got injured, Nketiah filling in for several months was widely predicted t be the end of our title challenge.
 

footyfan019

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Jesus doesn't score much but he is a menace in the box, with him playing Saka and Martinelli get even better. Martinelli was not having good games when nketiah was playing but trossard came in and slotted in nicely. Now Jesus doesn't need to be rushed. Last 10 games will be tough for this young squad. Let's hope they give it all and give a good fight to the near perfect city.
 

Fridge chutney

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I think it’s embarrassing for any Man Utd manager to be 19 points behind arsenal, no matter the circumstances.
:lol: when's the 'we are ahead of United' trophy parade? Couldn't even beat us head to head, even though we were missing Casemiro for both matches.
 

GoonerBear

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:lol: when's the 'we are ahead of United' trophy parade? Couldn't even beat us head to head, even though we were missing Casemiro for both matches.
Think it's 3 days after the we beat Arsenal in head to head parade. :p

(I'm jesting, I know you could win 3 cups still).
 

Fridge chutney

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Think it's 3 days after the we beat Arsenal in head to head parade. :p

(I'm jesting, I know you could win 3 cups still).
And you could win the league, and it would be a brilliant achievement!

My comment was not directed at you at all. Most Arsenal fans here are great posters but some make bizarre comparisons meant to diminish the progress of ETH and i don't understand it.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Jesus is the best player in that squad, however we have been fortunate to get trossard who doesn't drop as much in quality. With Nketiah we wouldn't be at this level.
Saka and Odegaard are much better players. Maybe Saliba too.

Arsenal title win is good. Something different and stops City winning 3 on the bounce / potential treble (far away I know). Plus Pep losing the league to his apprentice who he sold two players two is hilariously stupid.

Only blot Is Partey being celebrated and important figure in that team which is not a good look.
 

tinfish

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Saka and Odegaard are much better players. Maybe Saliba too.

Arsenal title win is good. Something different and stops City winning 3 on the bounce / potential treble (far away I know). Plus Pep losing the league to his apprentice who he sold two players two is hilariously stupid.

Only blot Is Partey being celebrated and important figure in that team which is not a good look.
Saka and Odegaard grew better throughout the season. Saka was looking a little off at the start. Jesus came in and impacted the squad straight away hence why we labelled him our best player. Him coming back, I hope he is a menace. He reminds me of prime Alexis Sanchez at Arsenal, but without the appetitie for goal.
 

GoonerBear

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And you could win the league, and it would be a brilliant achievement!

My comment was not directed at you at all. Most Arsenal fans here are great posters but some make bizarre comparisons meant to diminish the progress of ETH and i don't understand it.
Fair do's. Don't know why anyone would diminish the job ETH has done this season. A blind man could see what hes done.
 

Shark

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I miss it too, I even hope you improve a bit so we could have this rivalry again next season.
I think it’s embarrassing for any Man Utd manager to be 19 points behind arsenal, no matter the circumstances.
ETH has been challenging on all fronts that's the difference and you expect a manger totally new to the league and inheriting a mess both ability wise and psychologically wise to be up there with a manager that's three years at the helm and having a miracle season where everything just clicks without many other distractions. 19 points can be turned around very quickly by our manager in the coming seasons I'm certain of that.
 

croadyman

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They pass the ball annoyingly well in final third compared to us who too often under or over hit
 

maniak

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They pass the ball annoyingly well in final third compared to us who too often under or over hit
Even White is doing it well, he's probably the player I'm the most impressed in terms of evolution.
 

TheReligion

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ETH has been challenging on all fronts that's the difference and you expect a manger totally new to the league and inheriting a mess both ability wise and psychologically wise to be up there with a manager that's three years at the helm and having a miracle season where everything just clicks without many other distractions. 19 points can be turned around very quickly by our manager in the coming seasons I'm certain of that.
Ignore him. Hes only here to be a WUM.
 

Rightnr

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That Arsenal WUM needs banning. 19 points but fails to mention two games in hand and all the luck they've had while playing a game a week
 

WeePat

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I also would rate those three higher. He's our best striker, though. And when he got injured, Nketiah filling in for several months was widely predicted t be the end of our title challenge.
Yeah I was one of those who was saying it’s Nketiah or bust after the WC but to be fair to him he had a good run of form and held his own for a good while. I really like Jesus though, the Arsenal fan above who said he makes the team more fluid in the final third was spot on. He’s not a prolific striker but he’s such a team player.
 

Buxton

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ETH has been challenging on all fronts that's the difference and you expect a manger totally new to the league and inheriting a mess both ability wise and psychologically wise to be up there with a manager that's three years at the helm and having a miracle season where everything just clicks without many other distractions. 19 points can be turned around very quickly by our manager in the coming seasons I'm certain of that.
You’re not challenging on the league front, just the cups. Where you’ve had home games every round and have probably faced 1 team in the top 6.
Not blaming ETH, but he is the manager , and the gap is far bigger than it was last season. When I watch both teams, no offence but the football we play is on another planet to you.
 

Buxton

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And you could win the league, and it would be a brilliant achievement!

My comment was not directed at you at all. Most Arsenal fans here are great posters but some make bizarre comparisons meant to diminish the progress of ETH and i don't understand it.
I thought his comments about us being lucky with injuries very defeatist in attempting to excuse his inability to challenge us this season. Not the type of talk you’d want to hear from someone attempting to build a title challenge one day. Until that point I thought he’s doing most things right but that was when I thought maybe he’s running out of ideas on how to catch us.
We ll see in the summer , I’ve gone from thinking it’s only a matter of time now before United are back , to….. There’s so much work to do that I can’t you see challenging next season.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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This is a good listen and really highlights what I consider the major question, which is if the Kroenkes are really willing to invest in the club. I've disliked the Kroenkes for a long time and never believed in them as owners. They have a history of making a few moves for their sports teams to win once then they underinvest and just ride things out. During their time owning Arsenal, it has really seemed like they care less about building a winning club and only about ensuring a slow appreciation of their "asset."

My cynical side still believes the only reason Arteta has received some backing (and not even as much as he could have received like in January) is that the Kroenkes have now seen how far behind Arsenal is falling with commercial revenue and they feel compelled to act or else their asset will lose too much value. At the tail end of Wenger and before Liverpool got Klopp, Arsenal were ahead of Liverpool and far ahead of Tottenham in commercial revenue and now that has completely reversed. The Kroenkes realize for the first time they can't just sit on their hands and watch Arsenal grow in value so now they are making some moves.

Win the league or not, what really worries me is whether the Kroenkes will do what it takes to really establish Arsenal back in the top 4 of PL clubs. On one hand, I worry that if the club wins the league this year, they will just think job complete and simply ride things out. On the other, I fear that if the team doesn't win the league, they'll just say "well we got in a title challenge, no need to invest". I look at how the Kroenke's managed their NFL Rams move back to Los Angeles (they invested in enough aging veterans to win the Super Bowl last year but now their team looks aged and faded fast) and I don't have a lot of hope for how willing they are to do what it takes to really achieve a complete revitalization of the club.
 

Buxton

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This is a good listen and really highlights what I consider the major question, which is if the Kroenkes are really willing to invest in the club. I've disliked the Kroenkes for a long time and never believed in them as owners. They have a history of making a few moves for their sports teams to win once then they underinvest and just ride things out. During their time owning Arsenal, it has really seemed like they care less about building a winning club and only about ensuring a slow appreciation of their "asset."

My cynical side still believes the only reason Arteta has received some backing (and not even as much as he could have received like in January) is that the Kroenkes have now seen how far behind Arsenal is falling with commercial revenue and they feel compelled to act or else their asset will lose too much value. At the tail end of Wenger and before Liverpool got Klopp, Arsenal were ahead of Liverpool and far ahead of Tottenham in commercial revenue and now that has completely reversed. The Kroenkes realize for the first time they can't just sit on their hands and watch Arsenal grow in value so now they are making some moves.

Win the league or not, what really worries me is whether the Kroenkes will do what it takes to really establish Arsenal back in the top 4 of PL clubs. On one hand, I worry that if the club wins the league this year, they will just think job complete and simply ride things out. On the other, I fear that if the team doesn't win the league, they'll just say "well we got in a title challenge, no need to invest". I look at how the Kroenke's managed their NFL Rams move back to Los Angeles (they invested in enough aging veterans to win the Super Bowl last year but now their team looks aged and faded fast) and I don't have a lot of hope for how willing they are to do what it takes to really achieve a complete revitalization of the club.
if you’re afraid, give Odegaard the ball.
 

sglowrider

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This is a good listen and really highlights what I consider the major question, which is if the Kroenkes are really willing to invest in the club. I've disliked the Kroenkes for a long time and never believed in them as owners. They have a history of making a few moves for their sports teams to win once then they underinvest and just ride things out. During their time owning Arsenal, it has really seemed like they care less about building a winning club and only about ensuring a slow appreciation of their "asset."

My cynical side still believes the only reason Arteta has received some backing (and not even as much as he could have received like in January) is that the Kroenkes have now seen how far behind Arsenal is falling with commercial revenue and they feel compelled to act or else their asset will lose too much value. At the tail end of Wenger and before Liverpool got Klopp, Arsenal were ahead of Liverpool and far ahead of Tottenham in commercial revenue and now that has completely reversed. The Kroenkes realize for the first time they can't just sit on their hands and watch Arsenal grow in value so now they are making some moves.

Win the league or not, what really worries me is whether the Kroenkes will do what it takes to really establish Arsenal back in the top 4 of PL clubs. On one hand, I worry that if the club wins the league this year, they will just think job complete and simply ride things out. On the other, I fear that if the team doesn't win the league, they'll just say "well we got in a title challenge, no need to invest". I look at how the Kroenke's managed their NFL Rams move back to Los Angeles (they invested in enough aging veterans to win the Super Bowl last year but now their team looks aged and faded fast) and I don't have a lot of hope for how willing they are to do what it takes to really achieve a complete revitalization of the club.
This summer window will be indicative of what Stan is thinking then. Then if United gets bought out... and the Barcodes start to assert themselves in the window... maybe Stan may think that its becoming an arm's race. Then he will decide whether to compete or sell out?
 

oneniltothearsenal

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This summer window will be indicative of what Stan is thinking then. Then if United gets bought out... and the Barcodes start to assert themselves in the window... maybe Stan may think that its becoming an arm's race. Then he will decide whether to compete or sell out?
Sounds about right. I wouldn't doubt if he tries to sell next year if Arteta can deliver the league but he might just do what he did with Wenger, give just enough to ensure top 4 and CL money but not actively push for the league trophies.
 

GoonerGirly

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Yeah he left World Cup Camp under cloud
All I heard was he left due to "personal reasons", which can mean anything. Not that I'm complaining, happy for him to sit out. We can't afford any more injuries to our defenders.
 

Donaldo

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All I heard was he left due to "personal reasons", which can mean anything. Not that I'm complaining, happy for him to sit out. We can't afford any more injuries to our defenders.
Yeah he must have personally thought Southgate was a chancing prick.
 

Buxton

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White and Saka destroying teams with their combination play down the right, and Southgate leaves white out.
Rumours of a clash with the England coaches at the World Cup , probably on seeing Eric Dier picked ahead of him.