Arsenal and United's contrasting approaches to their rebuilds

RedFish

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Always better off sorting out the back first.

I think Ole is 100% going about this the right way.

Look at Liverpool - and I am a massive fan of Jurgen Klopp.

Liverpool finished 7th the first season with him... a bit like us last season.

First thing he did was up the fitness levels of his players (same as Ole has done this summer). Then Klopp bought in the two glaring defensive areas they needed strengthening in: goalkeeper and centre-back.

He tightened up the defence first!

Then he had a steady season.. after tightening the back.

Next summer, he bought a new engine in midfield: Keita and Fabinho.

What happened: 97 points and a CL in the bag.

Klopp finished 7th in his first season.. but was given ample time to turn it around.

That's what we need to do.

We give Ole the time and the patience required to build a team.

It would have been foolish to try to address everything in this one summer.

He has taken the perfect first steps. Defence sorted.

Now, we are in a great position to see if kids can rise to the occasion of the Premier League.

Can Pereira prove that he is atop midfielder?
Can McTominay continue to be Ole's key player?
Can Greenwood become as great as we all think he can?
Can Gomes prove to be the top No.10 we all hope he can?

We'll know that answers to those questions by next May,

If the answer is 'no' to any of them, then we splash the cash.

Only people who obsess about Football Manager and think that's how the real sport should be played are disappointed with our summer.

I - personally - think it has been a fantastic first summer for Ole. Everything he has done makes perfect sense. But it only makes sense to fans who are willing to give him the time he needs to turn this ship back around.

Excellent post!
 

Lee565

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Thing is we barely have the firepower to score more than 1 goal in a game so when teams have scored a goal against us over the past 6 months we struggle massively to come away with 3 points, teams like arsenal, liverpool and man city can concede a goal in a match with it not being too detrimental because they have it in them to score 2 or 3 goals with their firepower, I would have rather we had spent 120 million on firepower than on our defence and Bissaka will limit us if we want to ever finally start playing progressive attacking football in a year or two unless we are just going to keep sticking to playing in such a boring manner as we have seen post fergie.
 

John Blund

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Wit Arsenals display today, I guess all teams in the PL believe they can get a result against Arsenal. The playing out from the back error, I'd be fuming if my children's team didn't play it long after seeing that failing a few times. Even if your manager tells you to play out from the back - use half a brain if the opponent pushes that high - play it long. I don't know how many chances Watford had today, but Arsenal should be over the moon securing one point after that 2nd half.

As for other teams strikers:
Liverpool and Citys attackers would walk straight into any top team in the world. Except for Inter. They like their strikers to be big and strong. Our top 3 attackers (Rash, Martial, James, Mata?, Lingard?, Greenwood, Pereira?) would have a hard time beeing guaranteed starters at any top half contender in PL.
 

TwoSheds

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Thing is we barely have the firepower to score more than 1 goal in a game so when teams have scored a goal against us over the past 6 months we struggle massively to come away with 3 points, teams like arsenal, liverpool and man city can concede a goal in a match with it not being too detrimental because they have it in them to score 2 or 3 goals with their firepower, I would have rather we had spent 120 million on firepower than on our defence and Bissaka will limit us if we want to ever finally start playing progressive attacking football in a year or two unless we are just going to keep sticking to playing in such a boring manner as we have seen post fergie.
Have you actually ever watched Wan Bissaka? Or indeed title winning teams play football? They almost always have a tight defence. Not many teams concede a goal a game or more and go on to win the league.

The defence and James is looking like the right option to me right now. I like Pepé but he lacks a bit of composure so I'm not sure he'll score huge numbers of goals this season and Arsenal's defence is still a bit of a horror show. I'd be surprised if there's a huge gap between us and them this year but what there is will likely be in our favour I reckon. You can't have Soyuncu, Luiz and Maitland-Niles playing regularly in defence together and expect to do consistently well. That's not a slight on Maitland-Niles btw, I just don't think he's a defender really, looks like an ok DM to me.

Emery also needs to work out his best XI, I still feel he has no idea. Xhaka shouldn't be in it, that much I know.
 

LawCharltonBest

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I actually find the Arsenal & United rebuilds interesting. The PL was at its prime when they were the two best teams. Both in a very similar position with a similar quality of players
 

Cloud7

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So in conclusion, after a lot of talk, not much has actually changed with Arsenal?
 

lysglimt

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So in conclusion, after a lot of talk, not much has actually changed with Arsenal?
I actually would say it has changed...they look sharper going forward and worse defensively.
 

John Blund

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I actually would say it has changed...they look sharper going forward and worse defensively.
Do they look sharper? Arsenal has been doing that ticky-taka thing Özil did today since before Barca "invented" ticky-taka under Pep.

The latest edition of Arsenal looks shocking at the back. 2-0 up at halftime against the team everybody knows will be relegated for PL this season, and Arsenal are lucky (and probably delighted!) to get one point today. We're having Arsenal in 2 weeks at home. If Arsenal plays like they did today, we'll be looking at beating our 8-2 record against them.
When did Arsenal collapse today? Once Watford started pressing very high, giving Arsenal very little time on the ball. How does Ole want us to play? This is a leading question, as so many people on this forum don't manage to see how Ole wants us to play.
 

Josep Dowling

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Arsenal are just an hilarious club. Every season they never sort out the obvious weaknesses in their team.

The other thing I really don’t get is Wenger had them playing better football and on the whole better results. It seems Arsenal fans are more happy now than they ever were in the final few years under Wenger, I really don’t understand this.
 

Waynne

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Always better off sorting out the back first.

I think Ole is 100% going about this the right way.

Look at Liverpool - and I am a massive fan of Jurgen Klopp.

Liverpool finished 7th the first season with him... a bit like us last season.

First thing he did was up the fitness levels of his players (same as Ole has done this summer). Then Klopp bought in the two glaring defensive areas they needed strengthening in: goalkeeper and centre-back.

He tightened up the defence first!

Then he had a steady season.. after tightening the back.

Next summer, he bought a new engine in midfield: Keita and Fabinho.

What happened: 97 points and a CL in the bag.

Klopp finished 7th in his first season.. but was given ample time to turn it around.

That's what we need to do.

We give Ole the time and the patience required to build a team.

It would have been foolish to try to address everything in this one summer.

He has taken the perfect first steps. Defence sorted.

Now, we are in a great position to see if kids can rise to the occasion of the Premier League.

Can Pereira prove that he is atop midfielder?
Can McTominay continue to be Ole's key player?
Can Greenwood become as great as we all think he can?
Can Gomes prove to be the top No.10 we all hope he can?

We'll know that answers to those questions by next May,

If the answer is 'no' to any of them, then we splash the cash.

Only people who obsess about Football Manager and think that's how the real sport should be played are disappointed with our summer.

I - personally - think it has been a fantastic first summer for Ole. Everything he has done makes perfect sense. But it only makes sense to fans who are willing to give him the time he needs to turn this ship back around.
All fine points and in agree with your post but for one major key difference.
Klopp is proven world class manager who turned Liverpool around.
Ole is unproven at this level and is a massive gamble.
Of course this is all amplified by other major issue at the club in Woodwards control of the football side.
 

R'hllor

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Both are corporate tools, its just a competition who masks it better. This summer they done some structural changes (so they say) and got Pepe, fans turned a bit happy and abuse in US they got toned down, which was bad PR for their family in US, if it happened somewhere in Asia, they wouldnt give a feck.
 

flappyjay

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Arsenal spent the most on improving their strongest area. Which was pointless should have spent that 72m on a starting cb and a dm. They already had the goals in Auba and Lacazette.

United strengthened their weakest area. Problem is that positions that were not really strong also got weakened which was a step back in itself. Had united gotten a replacement for Ander and replaced Lukaku with a right winger we would comfortably finish top 4. Looks like there will be another scrap for the top 4