Arsenal's football and transfers after selling Henry

[Luke1995]

I wanted to ask your thoughts on Arsenal's quality of football and their approach to the transfer market from 2007 up until Fabregas and RVP leaving

Off the top of my head, in 2007-08 and 2008-09 Arsene Wenger built a squad who played some beautiful attacking football at times, but ultimately, some shortcomings in other parts of the game prevented them from winning the league. In 2008-09 it can be argued that the signing of Arshavin somewhat saved their season, giving how his style of play appeared to lift other player's up.

Then in summer of 2009, Adebayor, who had been one of their top scorers in recent seasons, left, and in following seasons, Fabregas and Van Persie were sold aswell.

Basically, how good was Arsenal's football after Henry and while they still had Fabregas/or RVP and thoughts on their signings/sales during that time

 

[VorZakone]

If I recall correctly they were doing pretty decent with Eduardo. His injury was fecked up.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

If I recall correctly they were doing pretty decent with Eduardo. His injury was fecked up.

Their captain crying in the middle of the pitch after the game did not helped too. They never recovered from the injury. It was the pivotal moment at which point everything simply changed for Arsenal FC.

 

[Lay]

I remember them playing Nasri against Liverpool in a 2-0 loss, where he played well. They sold him the next day or something

 

[galwayfa]

Their captain crying in the middle of the pitch after the game did not helped too. They never recovered from the injury. It was the pivotal moment at which point everything simply changed for Arsenal FC.

Are We saying arsenal changed due to one injury and captain crying in the middle of the pitch, they were brilliant up to then but surely them two reasons weren't the cause of the decline

 

[jus2nang]

Penny pinching ruined the chances of success. Persisting with awful players in key positions like Almunia, Silvestre and I'm going to get hammered for this.... Gallas (he wasn't an awful defender but had an awful influence at the club).

If Wenger had just bought a solid keeper and centre half, the team might have won something.

Wenger needed some strong personalities to have a positive influence (again, not like Gallas who threatened to score own goals at Chelsea - that should have been a massive red flag).

 

[Chief123]

If I recall correctly they were doing pretty decent with Eduardo. His injury was fecked up.

Yeah Eduardo looked really good until that horrific scandalous injury.

I always thought Antonio Reyes was brilliant and perfect for Arsenals fast paced football. I was shocked but also delighted when he left Arsenal to return to Spain. (Still can’t believe he’s dead now. So sad).

 

[FootballHQ]

They were fantastic first half of 07-08. Fabregas in great form, Hleb drifting in from the left and Rosicky was also staying fit in those days and contributing. Adebayor also stepped up a fair bit replacing Henry (Van Persie was in and out injured as was the case in those days).

Not sure they'd have won the league even if Eduardo had stayed fit. Still had doubts about them in the big games which stalked the second half of Wenger's reign and they lost 2-1 away to Man. United and Chelsea and also lost to Liverpool away in CL. IMO that was the strongest period of PL we've ever seen, all the top teams were stacked throughout the 11 and it was reflected in the european dominance in CL.

I think after 2008 they fell away as a team content just to finish in top 4 and needed great individual seasons from likes of Van Persie and Alexis to do that.

 

[Xaviesta]

Generally speaking they played some lovely football but come February, if they were in touch with the top of the league or indeed top of the league, they'd fall away and end up a long way off the pace come the end of the season.

The Eduardo injury happened I think in late Februrary in 2008 and they never recovered. They were in the title picture again at the end of February 2010 when Aaron Rasmey suffered that horrific injury and they finished that season a fair behind Chelsea.

A combination of Wenger not being able to sign the players he needed and an inablity to recover from setbacks prohibited Arsenal from having the league title go with the attractive football they displayed until Fabregas left.

 

[POF]

Arsenal's issue under Wenger was a lack of leadership, in particular after United ended their unbeaten run. They played some good football in that 2007-09 period but were never a genuine threat for the title. You knew that when the pressure was on they would bottle it.

That would have been the case no matter who they signed.

 

[Ødegaard]

Legend.

 

[United58]

Legend.

Helped us win the league!! Was delighted watching this at my Arsenal-supporting friend's house

Edit: 'I can't score 90, just 4'

 

[AshRK]

They were pretty decent for a couple of seasons and then CL defeat to us happened and that hurt wenger. I always felt they were never the same after that defeat. It was clear wenger was a notch below sir alex and went on a downward spiral while sir alex still won the league.

 

[Ødegaard]

Helped us win the league!! Was delighted watching this at my Arsenal-supporting friend's house

Edit: 'I can't score 90, just 4'

"Never. Only 2 times."
There is just so much gold in that interview.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

They played really well and had really good players at times, but there wasn't a single season that they had the kind of consistency you need to win the league. They're always such an up and down club, I would almost say unpredictable but actually in a way they're completely predictable.

Having said that I think (could be wrong) that they probably actually did well based on the amount of money available to Wenger. I can't remember them spending a lot during the post Henry period and they were still always a good side

 

[Sandikan]

Moved from a team of physical monsters, with tonnes of leadership all over the pitch to a team of tippy tappy types more interested in the post game selfies.

 

[Rasendori]

I was very impressed with Arsenal in both legs (albeit for different reasons) against Barcelona 2010/11

I felt Arsenals midfield of Wilshere, Fabregas, and Song made very good account of themselves against Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets. Wilshere rightly got the plaudits in the first leg, yet Fabregas also made a delightful pass to RVP at the edge of the box. I could be mistaken, but I reckon it was this leg that put Song on Barca's radar, and then his terrific season in 11/12 was enough for them to pull the trigger. Arsenal didn't park the bus, had more shots on target than Barca, 47% possession compared to United's 32% in the final. Arsenal won 2-1 but it was a great game from both sides, and Messi could have scored himself with a 1v1 opportunity.

The 2nd leg will haunt Wenger forever and not just because Fabregas had a mare. Whilst the encounter was pretty much one sided in Barca's favour. It was also impressive imo that Arsenal were still leading on aggregate at the point of the controversial red card. I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger is still kicking himself that he felt forced to put on Bendnter following the dismissal of RVP. Just look at this horrendous first touch by Bendnter that could've put Arsenal through on away goals.


The contrasting emotions of Pep and Wenger is extremely powerful.

I've clearly touched briefly and some might (rightly) say simplistically on Arsenal. In any case, Barcelona were very impressive in both legs too for obvious reasons. Looking through the lens of Barcelona, I felt the 2-2 draw in 09/10 was the best showing of Barca against Arsenal in the four encounters between Pep and Wenger. That should have been a cricket score as Barca were utterly dominant. That chance though, I feel for Wenger. In any case, Arsenal came agonisingly close, and the roles could have been easily reverse with Arsenal going through and Messi regretting his opportunity in first leg. The two games were worlds apart with Arsenal not even managing a shot on target, yet, Arsenal could have got a result from being passive, as well as going toe to toe.

 

[Zen]

Wenger wanted to win it his way - and fair play to him for that process. They were a great team in 07/08 - but that tackle shattered them, essentially telling them(in their heads), that's what they've got to take for playing the way they do in this league, and they certainly showed a bit more fear in the way they played after it. It's likely not incredible far from the truth either, small of the lower teams in the Premiership over the past decade have still been pretty rough.... Arsene could easily say they roughed up Cesc, Wilshere, Ramsey et all - his dream midfield.

But you kind of needed a big Pat in the Premiership and they missed him. Xavi-Iniesta-Bisquets probably wouldn't be playing 50 games each year if you swapped to Arsenal at the time either..

 

[gormless]

Are We saying arsenal changed due to one injury and captain crying in the middle of the pitch, they were brilliant up to then but surely them two reasons weren't the cause of the decline

It’s a good point I think. I wouldn’t say that Arsenal were changed by that game but it could be the dividing mark. Before that they weren’t that far removed from the Invincible’s, they were on a very strong title challenge and were taken seriously as championship contenders. After that game their season began to fall apart. I wouldn’t say they have had a convincing challenge since and they became more of a meme club than anything

 

[Guy Incognito]

Selling Henry galvanised them. They played some incredible football and they were something like five points clear with 12 to play.

They never got over the line and then players started to leave/agitated for moves en mass that summer. That basically f'd them over.

 

[POF]

Wenger wanted to win it his way - and fair play to him for that process. They were a great team in 07/08 - but that tackle shattered them, essentially telling them(in their heads), that's what they've got to take for playing the way they do in this league, and they certainly showed a bit more fear in the way they played after it. It's likely not incredible far from the truth either, small of the lower teams in the Premiership over the past decade have still been pretty rough.... Arsene could easily say they roughed up Cesc, Wilshere, Ramsey et all - his dream midfield.

But you kind of needed a big Pat in the Premiership and they missed him. Xavi-Iniesta-Bisquets probably wouldn't be playing 50 games each year if you swapped to Arsenal at the time either..

The biggest problem with those tackles was their reaction to them. Ramsey and Eduardo both experienced bad injuries and it was natural that they were upset. But their reaction was way over the top in criticising the opposition as if they did it on purpose.

Wenger was a weak leader and allowed his teams to make excuses for their failures to the point of delusion. It wasn't just that he tolerated it, he actively encouraged it and even led it himself.

When teams tried to rough up United, they stood up to it. When teams tried to rough up Arsenal they caved and cried about how unfair it was.

 

[Mastadon]

There a few reasons why things went downhill post Henry and in the Emirates years. Financials are an obvious reason and then Wenger lost his edge with foreign talent especially from the French leagues because other teams caught up. Wenger also seemed to have lost his eye for talent later on he actually believed that substandard young players like Diaby, Denilson,Song and Bendtner could win the league leading to us turning down the chance to sign talent like Xabi Alonso.

When he finally decided to start spending big money many of the signings were poor. Xhaka, Mustafi and Lacazette for example.

 

[Zen]

Are We saying arsenal changed due to one injury and captain crying in the middle of the pitch, they were brilliant up to then but surely them two reasons weren't the cause of the decline

It had been building up to then, Arsene felt they were being roughed up for years before it. He was quite protective of Cesc from the start - a 17 year old, yet would continually play him of course - but didn't like the tackles on him, the team constantly got niggles.... this was the icing that proved him right(again, in his mind - up to you how you take it).

 

[Lay]

They sold their best players each season didn’t they? Or near enough.

Nasri
Cesc
Adebayor
Hleb
Song
RVP

Maybe some others, all left after good seasons

 

[Zen]

The biggest problem with those tackles was their reaction to them. Ramsey and Eduardo both experienced bad injuries and it was natural that they were upset. But their reaction was way over the top in criticising the opposition as if they did it on purpose.

Wenger was a weak leader and allowed his teams to make excuses for their failures to the point of delusion. It wasn't just that he tolerated it, he actively encouraged it and even led it himself.

When teams tried to rough up United, they stood up to it. When teams tried to rough up Arsenal they caved and cried about how unfair it was.

I kinda get the hypocrite stand - but he took on a tough team at the start, so the shift was gonna take time. And when he was "roughing" up United, he also knew United could take it... I know Keane says "little Gary" about the tunnel bust up, but Gary was hard himself. The league as a whole was tough, he was a big influence on the league as a whole going towards more pleasing football. I'm not sure he's ever gone out of the way to be anti-thesis on purpose, some teams played rougher vs Arsenal, absolutely 100% on purpose, to break them, physically and well, mentally... as proven by the Eduardo tackle, it worked.

So, yeah, as a manager who knew the league... it was kind of a cop out of him to bring in these weak exotic mentalities knowing what was needed to make it really. But I wouldn't overly call Cesc, Wilshere and RVP weak.... they just got injured, a lot. I'd love to know just how much those 3 actually played together, fully fit in the couple years they had.

 

[Mastadon]

The biggest problem with those tackles was their reaction to them. Ramsey and Eduardo both experienced bad injuries and it was natural that they were upset. But their reaction was way over the top in criticising the opposition as if they did it on purpose.

Wenger was a weak leader and allowed his teams to make excuses for their failures to the point of delusion. It wasn't just that he tolerated it, he actively encouraged it and even led it himself.

When teams tried to rough up United, they stood up to it. When teams tried to rough up Arsenal they caved and cried about how unfair it was.

It is a fact that some teams did set out to rough up Arsenal and injuries were a part of this. The media and the FA did nothing about it because Wenger didn’t have the same influence that Ferguson did. Stoke players have even conceded that their approach crossed the line so it’s not just my opinion.

https://talksport.com/football/4542...o-why-stoke-crossed-the-line-against-arsenal/

The former Stoke striker, writing in his column for The Sun, claimed that former Potters boss Pulis wound up his players so much that it contributed to Ryan Shawcross breaking Arsenal midfielder Aaron Ramsey’s leg in an infamous incident in February 2010.

 

[POF]

I kinda get the hypocrite stand - but he took on a tough team at the start, so the shift was gonna take time. And when he was "roughing" up United, he also knew United could take it... I know Keane says "little Gary" about the tunnel bust up, but Gary was hard himself. The league as a whole was tough, he was a big influence on the league as a whole going towards more pleasing football. I'm not sure he's ever gone out of the way to be anti-thesis on purpose, some teams played rougher vs Arsenal, absolutely 100% on purpose, to break them, physically and well, mentally... as proven by the Eduardo tackle, it worked.

So, yeah, as a manager who knew the league... it was kind of a cop out of him to bring in these weak exotic mentalities knowing what was needed to make it really. But I wouldn't overly call Cesc, Wilshere and RVP weak.... they just got injured, a lot. I'd love to know just how much those 3 actually played together, fully fit in the couple years they had.

I don't think any of them were necessarily weak individually but as a group they were and it came from the top. Wenger encouraged the excuses mentality from the very start of his time at Arsenal.

It really impacted them when their leaders left because what was left behind was a group that everyone in the league knew could be bullied.

They could either try to combat it or continue to whinge about how unfair it was. They chose the latter and it just encouraged every team in the league to play physically against them.

 

[POF]

It is a fact that some teams did set out to rough up Arsenal and injuries were a part of this. The media and the FA did nothing about it because Wenger didn’t have the same influence that Ferguson did. Stoke players have even conceded that their approach crossed the line so it’s not just my opinion.

https://talksport.com/football/4542...o-why-stoke-crossed-the-line-against-arsenal/

The former Stoke striker, writing in his column for The Sun, claimed that former Potters boss Pulis wound up his players so much that it contributed to Ryan Shawcross breaking Arsenal midfielder Aaron Ramsey’s leg in an infamous incident in February 2010.

The bolded line! That is gold!

What did you expect that FA to do about it exactly? Change the rules so Arsenal players weren't allowed to be tackled.

Of course teams went out to rough Arsenal up because it was obvious that it worked.

If you're the Stoke manager and before the game the opposition have been crying that they drop points against your team because you play too physically, what would you do?

"Go easy on them today boys. We don't want to hurt their feelings again"?

 

[ThatsGreat]

Ramsey, Eduardo, Diaby and Wilshere. And no one can complain because that'll be portrayed as whining. Kick Arsenal out of the park when you can't match them technically even if it leads to career ending injuries. This ridiculous attitude was as much responsible for Arsenal's barren patch as the lack of investment. Its not a surprise that the best Arsenal performances came in the CL when you got more protection from the refs.

 

[Zen]

Its not a surprise that the best Arsenal performances came in the CL when you got more protection from the refs.

Outside of a stellar contest vs peak Barca..... where are these performances? In the real peak post-Henry years, they were knocked out by fellow English teams who didn't actually use rough em up tactics.

If anything, I'd say they are criminal underachievers in the CL. Even by English team standards.

 

[trims]

We had a great team in 2007-08, playing great football and getting results. Unfortunately Injuries to Rosicky and Eduardo in the second half of the season screwed us. Then, Flamini getting injured against Liverpool in the Champions league pretty much ended our season. Utd had a strong run in so hard to say if we would have won the league without those injuries. We lost Hleb and Flamini because we couldn't compete financially and we turned shite in 08-09.

I'd say our most entertaining football was in the first quarter of 2009-10. We were playing some amazing stuff with RVP, Fabregas, Arshavin and were top of the league. RVP got injured on international break as usual and we had to play Arshavin as a false 9 which didn't turn out well.

10-11 was pretty depressing because it was essentially a repeat of the previous 3 seasons where we get knocked out of all competitions within 2 weeks after showing some promise.

If RVP had stayed fit for the whole of 07-08 or 09-10 we would've have won something.

 

[Zen]

You know something - RVP, I've always envisaged his finest as being the end of 10/11 then rolling into the next two years which he was blinding for both Arsenal and Utd.

But that year from January 2011 onwards.... he was essentially responsible for 18pts in 17 games....also bare in mind they lost 3 times and drew 7....so essentially he was directly responsible for 18 out of 28pts in the 17 games he played after New Year. They talk about Messi-dependence. I never realized just how awful they were without his input in that run, I guess it was when they were juicing Cesc with painkillers to play as much as possible until shutting him off. RVP was unbelievably talented, shame it was a short window at his full fitness.

 

[Bastian]

"Never. Only 2 times."
There is just so much gold in that interview.

That's the best bit

 

[United58]

Wenger didn’t have the same influence that Ferguson did.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Song and Helb should have stayed as they sat on benches after.

Keep those 2 and keep 1 of Adebayor or RVP and if Diaby doesn't get injured then it's a different story.

Although that's a lot of what if.

Winning the PL is extremely hard. That's why people say it's the best league in the world. Sure the quality is not always the best but in terms of competition, no top league comes close.

 

[Dancfc]

They played great football upto and including 10/11 but after that apart from isolated exceptions i felt their football was wouldn't go as far as saying awful but very underwhelming given their reputation.

 

[rcoobc]

I'm not sure if it was on reddit on here who posted the graphics of Arsenal, United, Chelsea and Liverpool 2008 squads, but anyway

Arsenal had a good first XI. They were probably 3 players away from going toe-to-toe with us. Well their centre backs are no Ferdinand-Vidic but it's a good team

 

[Xyx]

I think injuries played a major role. There's the infamous Eduardo which led to us forfeiting our lead at the top. Rosicky missed an entire season. Van Persie would consistently get injured from 2008 to 2010. In the 2009/10 season, we had lost more than half of our best eleven to injuries after March. If I remember correctly, we were leading the table with seven or eight games to go so that was a huge blow. It didn't help that we couldn't retain players for more than a couple of seasons. Hleb and Flamini left in 2008, Nasri and Fabregas in 2011. I probably sound like I'm just making excuses right now but those were real factors that contributed to our underperformance in my opinion.

 

[Zen]

I'm not sure if it was on reddit on here who posted the graphics of Arsenal, United, Chelsea and Liverpool 2008 squads, but anyway

Arsenal had a good first XI. They were probably 3 players away from going toe-to-toe with us. Well their centre backs are no Ferdinand-Vidic but it's a good team

They were like 3 points off.... they did go toe to toe. It was terrible fine margin for them and well even Chelsea. But it was, as someone has mentioned up above, an absolutely belter of a season.

 

[Powderfinger]

There a few reasons why things went downhill post Henry and in the Emirates years. Financials are an obvious reason and then Wenger lost his edge with foreign talent especially from the French leagues because other teams caught up. Wenger also seemed to have lost his eye for talent later on he actually believed that substandard young players like Diaby, Denilson,Song and Bendtner could win the league leading to us turning down the chance to sign talent like Xabi Alonso.

When he finally decided to start spending big money many of the signings were poor. Xhaka, Mustafi and Lacazette for example.

This is a good short summary.

Wenger really lost his touch with selecting and developing players in his last 6-7 years, and Arsenal continue to pay for that today. But it should be noted that he did a pretty fantastic job keeping the team competitive in the immediate aftermath of the move to the Emirates.

From 2006-2013, Arsenal were in aggregate net earners in the transfer market by about 40m, all during a period when he needed to rebuild the whole Invincibles side. The way football was going at the time, no manager was going to be winning big trophies with those kinds of financial limitations. Even SAF would never have won the league if he was unable to spend money for seven years while trying to build a new team.