ATG Draft - R1: Michaelf7 vs Raees (Viktor Maslov vs Udo Lattek)

Who will win this match (also considering realisation of the tactical blueprints)?


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Physiocrat

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Michaelf7



Raees



Michaelf7

Inspiration: Viktor Maslov's Dynamo Kiev 1966-1968 (Soviet Champions in all 3 of these seasons and winner of the Soviet Cup in 1967)

if there is a single man who can claim to be the father of modern football, it is Viktor Maslov.
Jonathan Wilson in Inverting the Pyramid: The History of Football Tactics

Formation: 4-1-3-2 similar to Alf Ramsey's wingless wonders


Source: https://www.passion4fm.com/evolution-of-barcelonas-tiki-taka-playing-style/

Tactics:

Defense: High Defensive Line, Zonal Marking, Pressing

Maslov on Man Marking
Manmarking humiliates, insults and even morally oppresses the players who resort to it.
Source: Jonathan Wilson, Inverting the Pyramid: The History of Football Tactics

Attack: Interchangability, Total Football Prototype, Attacking Fullbacks, Di Stefano as main playmaker, Using orgnization and interchangability to create the potential to outnumber the opposition in any part of the pitch.

Player Roles

The defense will play a high defensive line with zonal marking (as Maslov was not a fan of man marking). The fullbacks will also get forward to take part in the attack and create width The DM role in this tactic which is being played by Redondo has 2 functions which are to be a fixed defensive point (i.e. a holding midfielder) so that the fullbacks can attack and to initiate attacks from deep. The 3 midfielders in front of Redondo will play an important role in pressing and hunting down the opposition. Additionally Di Stefano as the central player in the 3 will be the teams main playmaker (a role played by Andriy Biba in the Dynamo side which Maslov describes as follows):

Only Biba retains full rights of democracy. He is a very clever and honest player, who would never allow himself any excess and never abuses his skills. Andriy will do exactly what is necessary. He has the right to construct the game as though he were the coach himself during the match, making decisions as to how to shape it. The others then grasp his ideas and develop them as far as they can.
Source: Jonathan Wilson, Inverting the Pyramid: The History of Football Tactics

In addition to finishing ability and teamwork, my two strikers Rooney and Shevchenko will also help contribute to pressing off the ball (in what is a modernisation of Maslov's tactics as the pressing usually started from the midfielders).

An advantage that my team has is that four of the players (Dasayev, Bezsonov, Demyanenko and Shevchenko) played regularly under Lobanovsky who used similar tactics to Maslov

Raees

Peaks -

FILLOL - 75-78
Burgnich - 63-66
Godin 2013-2016
Baresi 87-90
Nilton - 55-58
Duncan Edwards 55-58
Tardelli 80-83
Masopust - 60-63
Matthews 34-37
Rivelino - 67-70
Romario 91-94

Playing style, tactics

Lattek was an incredibly adaptable and innovative manager whose Bayern side often gets overlooked in favour of the Dutch sides of the 70's... his Bayern side was just as futuristic with its crazy full backs who could join in with the midfield and wide players who were playmakers rather than just out and out wide men. He seemingly favoured a hard working base in midfield across his various sides and also deployed a libero more often than not... preferring to have a sweeper to clean up any complexities posed by the opposition threat.

I modelled his side more on the Bayern outfit of the early 70's but it is more of a Greatest Hits tribute act.

Player roles
GK: FILLOL - based on Sepp Maier ... an agile shot stopper, the Argentine is a great All-time level replacement for him.
RB: BURGNICH - based on Berti Vogts... tucked in defensive right back cum man marker... The Italian was the original.
CB: GODIN - based on Schwarzenbeck... the steel to Beckenbauer's classier approach
SW: BARESI - based on Beckenbauer.
LB: NILTON - based on Breitner.. pioneer of attacking left backs and right footed to boot.
MIDFIELD TRIO: EDWARDS - TARDELLI - MASOPUST based on Roth-Kappelmann-Zobel .. hard working box to box trio.

LW: RIVELINO - based on Hoeness.. a playmaking left winger who could score goals and drift into attacking midfield areas.
CF: ROMARIO - the perfect replacement for Gerd Muller.

Alterations from the original

RW: MATTHEWS - not really based on a specific player but I thought Matthews is usually misportrayed as just a pure outside right but IMO his midfield link up and ability to cut inside was underrated as was his possession play - not to mention super fit and hard working and I reckon Lattek would love him in front of a Vogts.
 
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Raees

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You should have picked Junior rather than Nilton.
Not going to disagree with that to be fair but I still think Nilton brings enough to the table and with his GOAT level reputation was simply too tempting to leave out.
 

Raees

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I'd be keen to hear the reasons behind your choice of Puyol and Hulshoff at centre back?
 

Synco

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sign up, they said. it's a fun draft, they said.
Key for @Michaelf7777777 is certainly if he can make full use of Di Stefano's ability. His description of the "Biba role" sounds convincing to me, would be interesting to hear what other people think who know more about it than me.

The front three + midfield looks really good - I don't know anything about the original, but it seems to fit the playing idea.
 

Synco

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sign up, they said. it's a fun draft, they said.
As for @Raees' team, central defense and midfield look very good, imo. Baresi was an important draft catch (80% Beckenbauer and 150% Schwarzenbeck :D), and I particularly like the midfield. Masopust provides the elite midfield playmaking ability Bayern was rather short of. Workrate is intact.

The wingers look more like a free choice stylistically, but that department was never prolific for Bayern anyway (except for Hoeneß, who was needed everywhere).

I really like Nilton, and I think he may have had much more attacking potential than his historic role allowed for, but Breitner's offensive engine was something else. It was also very important to make up for deficits in the rest of the offense. Then again, the rest of this offense here is so much better that it doesn't really hurt. Can't really decide what to make of it.
 

Raees

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As for @Raees' team, central defense and midfield look very good, imo. Baresi was an important draft catch (80% Beckenbauer and 150% Schwarzenbeck :D), and I particularly like the midfield. Masopust provides the elite midfield playmaking ability Bayern was rather short of. Workrate is intact.

The wingers look more like a free choice stylistically, but that department was never prolific for Bayern anyway (except for Hoeneß, who was needed everywhere).

I really like Nilton, and I think he may have had much more attacking potential than his historic role allowed for, but Breitner's offensive engine was something else. It was also very important to make up for deficits in the rest of the offense. Then again, the rest of this offense here is so much better that it doesn't really hurt. Can't really decide what to make of it.
Rivelino was actually my favoured winger from the outset if I didn't get Figo... not many wingers combine playmaking/ability to be effective out wide yet also equally effective centrally. Whilst he was left footed, his ethos mirrors Hoeness.

 

Synco

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sign up, they said. it's a fun draft, they said.
Rivelino was actually my favoured winger from the outset if I didn't get Figo... not many wingers combine playmaking/ability to be effective out wide yet also equally effective centrally. Whilst he was left footed, his ethos mirrors Hoeness.

Yeah, for these offensive aspects that's certainly true.

It's just that Hoeneß had a very special mix of traits, some of which are hard to replicate. For example, he could be on man-marking duties, playing some kind of pacy box-to-box defending winger/forward. Or whatever it can be called.

But since that Bayern team's character was in parts defined by the limitations of half the team, it's obvious that the balance of player roles will be different here. So it's not meant as a criticism.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Good squads from both teams but I am not a fan of Raees' front 3.

I don't think Matthews and Romario is a great pair as a provider and scorer.

Also if Rivellino has to be in a 3 man attack, he has to be central for me, not as a LW.

If he plays leftwards, has to be in a 4 man attack.
 

Physiocrat

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Also if Rivellino has to be in a 3 man attack, he has to be central for me, not as a LW.

If he plays leftwards, has to be in a 4 man attack.
I was thinking Masopust at LCM could drift left and Rivelino go more centrally. It would be a bit like Iniesta at LW. I think here it could work.

Is the lack it aerial threat the reason you think Matthews and Romario won't work that well? I suppose Raees argument would be Matthews can play more low crosses and cut backs.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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I was thinking Masopust at LCM could drift left and Rivelino go more centrally. It would be a bit like Iniesta at LW. I think here it could work.
Yea, its workable, but doesn't get me too excited.

Is the lack it aerial threat the reason you think Matthews and Romario won't work that well? I suppose Raees argument would be Matthews can play more low crosses and cut backs.
Aerial threat yes and having someone like a Stoichkov or Bebeto or Ronaldo around really kicked up Romario a notch.

I have read Raees' portrayal of Romario on his website and I think that makes a really good case for it.

I'd have preferred someone not as orthodox as Matthews there

The 1993/1994 season would prove to be Romario’s magnum opus as a footballer…but upon closer inspection whilst Romario was in electrifying form in La Liga, in the Champions League – he only scored 2 goals in 8 games. This was partly due to the three foreigners rule which prevented Stoichkov, Laudrup and Romario lining up together thus depriving Romario of the service he was accustomed to domestically. Despite Romario’s lacklustre individual contribution, such was the fear he evoked in opposition defences that he effectively drew attention away from Stoichkov who fired Barcelona into the final with 7 goals in 8 games.
 
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Enigma_87

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Good squads from both teams but I am not a fan of Raees' front 3.

I don't think Matthews and Romario is a great pair as a provider and scorer.

Also if Rivellino has to be in a 3 man attack, he has to be central for me, not as a LW.

If he plays leftwards, has to be in a 4 man attack.
Romario I think tends to get a little underrated in terms of tactical versatility in drafts. He played in different setups and imo is very complete CF.

considering the creativity behind him and the amount of great passers alongside him I’d say he’d be pretty much in his zone here and form a very good pairing with Rivelino.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Romario I think tends to get a little underrated in terms of tactical versatility in drafts. He played in different setups and imo is very complete CF.

considering the creativity behind him and the amount of great passers alongside him I’d say he’d be pretty much in his zone here and form a very good pairing with Rivelino.
No question about that. It’s workable for sure. But in my eyes, it doesn’t get the best out of any of the front of 3. Let just say the sum of parts is on par with the individuals and I prefer the sum of parts to be significantly Better than the individuals.
 

Enigma_87

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No question about that. It’s workable for sure. But in my eyes, it doesn’t get the best out of any of the front of 3. Let just say the sum of parts is on par with the individuals and I prefer the sum of parts to be significantly Better than the individuals.
I think Rivelino and Romario are a great pair tbh and will probably get the best of each other. Laudrup also used to start nominally from the left and cut inside. I like those mechanics. Rivellino is a top notch scorer as well so to me in 4-3-3 as a wing forward he works, especially in modern game where he will tuck in.

Matthews on the other hand - yeah I'd probably share those concerns and ideally a wing forward would've fitted better.

On the flip side something about Rooney and Sheva feels off. Can't wrap my head around it but I wouldn't think about it as a great duo.
 

Raees

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I was thinking Masopust at LCM could drift left and Rivelino go more centrally. It would be a bit like Iniesta at LW. I think here it could work.

Is the lack it aerial threat the reason you think Matthews and Romario won't work that well? I suppose Raees argument would be Matthews can play more low crosses and cut backs.
Romario aerial prowess is very underrated - look at his World Cup goals and his winner in the 1987 Copa America - he was fearless in the air when it came to putting it in the back of the net.

He’d thrive on Matthews service and even if he was poor in the air which I would disagree with strongly, Matthews is more versatile passer than a Beckham from wide positions.