Yep, a bit of context is needed
Aurelien Tchouameni
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) chats to author, Dan Williamson, about his new book 'If I Hadnt Seen Such Riches' which chronicles our 1990/91 European Cup Winners Cup victory, which is a trip down memory lane for those old enough to remember it and a vital history lesson for those who don't.
There’s a few ‘glass half empty’ folk about, it seems.
Mbeumo hasn’t been par; there’s considerable concern to his end of season plus his actual role next season given he was bought for a different manager and system. Zirkzee is not a punt, Ugarte has been a disaster. Those 3 alone total £145m. All 3 could be out the door by 27’-28’. That is not a good strike rate, especially so as they are costlier than the first two you mention.
City are a literal irrelevance in this discussion; nothing they do affects them in any way - buy and throwing players away because they cheat and have infinite money is not a barometer for anyone else. Liverpool’s summer was a mess, but they are coming off winning the league and lots of recent success, which gives more credit in the bank. Arsenal have made a lot more astute purchases than bad ones.
It’s obviously your own prerogative how you rate INEOS thus far, but for me they have not done much to be impressed with and this is a huge window for them.
I just don’t rate them thus far; providing perspective is not being negative. Otherwise feel free to refute my evaluation of their signings and point out why it’s negative instead of objective.
I'd be extremely surprised if Mbeumo is sold by the 27-28 season. Who has concerns on his actual role? Nailed on as the right sided forwarded I'd say.
Do you read his performance thread? Constant worries about his entire game as a winger; his inability to best a man etc. etc. his real role went up in smoke when Amorim left and now he is stuck trying to fit in despite it not being suited to his skillset. If he performs like he has in 2026 for another season, he won’t be here in the next one, I don’t think.
I mean to be fair, I think your assessment of Lammens and Heaven as signings is negative rather than objective.
You described Lammens as "not being their first choice" but who is this according to? From what I gather, Lammens was indeed not the first choice of Ruben Amorim (who wanted Martinez) but he was overruled by the recruitment team. I'm not sure how you could consider that fortuitous rather than sensible on their part.
You equally describe the Heaven transfer as "fortuitous but massively beneficial to us". To be fair, I guess I could be misinterpreting your meaning here but is Heaven again not an example of a massive win for the current recruitment team?
I feel as though if we're going to draw attention to Zirkzee and Ugarte as "unmitigated disasters", which isn't really unfair, you equally have to give major credit for the huge wins we've seen with Lammens and Heaven.
You can't take anything serious from the performance threads, our 2nd (iirc) statistically highest goals plus assists provider and we're writing him off after one season.
I'd say there must be two players in the squad who aren't on the chopping block if we are placing such a high bar on players and that's Bruno and Lammens.
Everyone else at some point (and for the same amount of time) in the season has been equally as poor or worse.
Plus I don't really see any difference to his position under Amorim and Carrick, the negative he has is he doesn't have Amad on the same side as those two complimented each other well.
Would offer this midfield so much, needs to watch Casemiro send off on Sunday and think that could be you one day. Maybe Leny could also play a part in persuading his countryman as well.
I mean, objective is to quote on the whole not splice to suit a narrative; I added: “I don’t know how Heaven slipped the net to the degree we could acquire him so cheaply; if they can rustle up more like that, fair play (or not) to them” If this is some unique skill they have and they can routinely pull off outrageous signings like that, more power to them. I also said Lammens is the signing of the decade so far (excluding Bruno who creeps in as a January window signing).
Lammens and Heaven would just about level out for Ugarte and Zirkzee by the logic you’re using, so then you’d look at the remainder.
You’re purposely missing the point. He’s not playing in the system that earned him plaudits at the start of the season anymore and his form is at rock bottom, which is an obvious thing for people to be concerned about. We won’t be playing the system that got him those merits and instead will be playing the one he’s struggling in. If his follow up season is 2025-like, he’ll be fine; if it’s 2026-like, he’s likely not here the season after.
Not at all, you’re missing my point. People are being overly negative and worried about him. We’ve got the results and points post Amorim but no one bar Bruno and Lammens has really being outstanding.
No chance we sell him by the end of next season. Quote me on that by all means. But if we are debating if he will…..
Will we sell Cunha if he plays as poorly as the first half of this season?
Will we sell Mainoo for that matter too who’s played well for about 6 games this season.
What about Amad? Sell him as well? Been awful this season. Woeful actually.
Mbeumo’s level has dropped off but he’s still good enough to be a starter next season (current squad limited).
I think we’re going to go around in circles and I’ve already derailed the thread enough. INEOS are some people’s cup of tea, for others not and they have a lot to do to win over those people especially with what Jim himself represents.
I obviously hope they smash it this window and make us a force to be reckoned with.
I feel a lot of debate here is stifled by the misuse of the word "negativity". I didn't feel you or @Big Ron’s Coat were being especially negative, even if BRC was a bit hyperbolic.
I am waiting to see our summer business before commenting much further, but I do feel we could be more creative in the market and I've been slightly disappointed that Vivell's input doesn't seem to have yielded many out of the box signings. I have a concern that we may start leaning too much into the "PL Proven" angle this summer, but I will keep an open mind.
I also think the signings of Ugarte and Zirkzee are concerning because 1) their flaws were described on here plenty before they signed for us, and 2) their signings reflect not only errors in judgment but potentially a scary lack of insight into what traits and profiles we need to add to the squad. They're not just bad signings simply because "they didn't work out."
I think that's a bit harsh. Amad's end product has been disappointing but his general play was still decent, if not fairly good, for most of the season. It was only the few weeks directly after returning from AFCON and then obviously the last two months or so where he's been actually poor.
Woeful maybe harsh but he’s been poor for the majority of the season.
Yep, unsurprisingly I agree and I am going to reserve full judgement until the closing of the window.
Your last paragraph is spot on for me, too.
Nah I’ll stick with my original imagination of a thimble statement until they show some nous in the market.
I wouldn’t describe them as “my cup of tea” but as we’ve been drinking a pint of piss for the last decade or more, it’s certainly more palatable, whatever they are.
For what it’s worth, I think you’re going in too hard on their transfer record. I’m not claiming it’s A+, but you’re presenting it as D-, which feels excessive.
And I’ll stick up for them on Zirkzee. He’s not worked out, but he was a roll of the dice because of the buyout clause. He’s not on a massive contract and we’re not going to take a massive hit on the fee when he’s sold this summer. Good business? No. Disastrous? Also, no. For disastrous, see the list of the few seasons before that I posted.
It's the opportunity cost with Zirkzee. He literally fitted in no style of any of the managers we've had, so I'd say it was disastrous considering we've just completely wasted time, money, opportunity and it was quite obvious from day one he's not a premier league striker - even from his first interview. I was hopeful he would adapt to the pace, but he just never did.
I think they've done nothing out of the box and they were bounced into the Lammens transfer on the last day of the window - who has been our best signing. We need to take better advantage of our scouts recommendations, rather than putting so much stock in prem proven and it be the be all and end all.
Good insight. The emphasis on pace and physicality is also concerning with the lack of technical ability across the squad. The De Ligt signing doesn’t get enough stick for me either considering his lack of mobility and his previous injury record. Getting strung along by Brentford for Mbeumo who was a bizarre target in the first place. Earmarking Delap as our priority striker signing and then pivoting to Watkins. Going from no midfield signings to possibly breaking the bank for Baleba at the end of the summer window.
I could go on but suffice to say there have been a lot of warning signs so far. They have been all over the place in the transfer market. Absolute sixes and sevens. They look like a couple of fellers who’ve never been in these jobs before. Which tbf they haven’t.
Just did a control + F on Tchouameni’s name on this whole page and it only came up in the thread subject, very on topic lads.
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Agent Casemiro needs to get this moving
Ornstein said he's one to keep an eye on
I'd keep an eye on that right hook
Not sure the validity random tweet citing NBC, trying to see if I can find a source from the horses mouth
I chose to believe already, don't have to put in the effort for me
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Tony Coton said they had been watching and tracking him for years 2018?? and Wilcox and Vivell were big fans. Yes, it was Amorim who wanted Emi, however Lammens was a huge risk in terms of experience but he fitted in from day one. Coton was very right, pushed for him and now we have a generation keeper for 20 million. And don't forget Vitek too!! We also just signed the best keeper in 16's in Charlie Hardy who is massively rated.
Tchouameni is always great for France, strong, great passing, positioning and plays with intensity more than for RM. He is the best we can realistically get if Anderson is off to City. That Chema lad looks good too. Is he for sale?
Once Mourinho is confirmed for Madrid. This will definitely not happen. Allegedly Mourinho is asking for defensive signings this summer for Madrid. You dont get rid of a player like Tchaumeni if you have concerns about your defence.
Valverde is more of a typical Mourinho player and arguably the most prized asset Real Madrid have. It looks like one of these players will go, and Tchouameni's profile is more replaceable.
Coton certainly knows his onions
How did he play last night?
Courtois once again Madrid’s man of the match so couldn’t have been great.
Just know Mourinho will want to keep him, damn I can see us reverting back to Baleba for this role
So hel sell Valverde?
Highly doubt that considering he's the captain of Real, know he's a different profile to Tchouameni and despite concerns would still take Camavinga
You think Mourinho would prefer Tchouameni to Valverde? Why?