AVB blames English football for Chelsea's failure to bring along youth players

[Neutral]

AVB wants B teams in lower leagues
January 19, 2012


By ESPNsoccernet staff

Chelsea manager Andre Villas-Boas has called for feeder clubs to be admitted to the lower leagues to help provide the "missing link" in English football's development of top young talent.


With highly-rated Chelsea youngster Josh McEachran sent out on loan to Swansea to gain valuable experience, Villas-Boas said he believed the academy system and "not competitive" reserve team league currently in place in England do not prepare young footballers for the transition to the first team.

Instead, the Portuguese manager would like to see the introduction of the feeder club model seen in Spain, where the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona have 'B' teams competing in the second tier.

There has not been a significant graduate from Chelsea's youth set-up, despite heavy investment, since John Terry's emergence more than ten years ago, where-as at Barcelona, Pep Guardiola has given first-team debuts to 25 players who have been promoted from the club's feeder team since he took over as manager in 2008.

Asked why there was such a big disparity, Villa-Boas told The Independent: "Because the gap between the reserve team and the first-team is immense here. Barcelona 'B' play in the equivalent of the Championship. If the European model is applied in England, it could be tested. The reserve team serves the first-team, but it doesn't serve the progression of talent coming through."

"It [buying a feeder club] could be a solution. There is more of a cultural identity [with the parent club] if it's called a 'B' team. It's the same name, the same environment. If it's a feeder club, I couldn't call a player up to my team until the transfer window opens.

Villas-Boas added: "The youth development system in England is not right, in my belief. There is plenty of effort and talks to get it right but in my opinion it is not. The reserve team league is not competitive. The youth levels are not competitive enough. The FA Youth Cup: does it favour talent or competition?

"In my opinion there is a missing link between age groups in all competitions. There should be national championships played between teams from around the country. The older ones should play nationally. The younger ones should play regionally. You promote more talent and competitiveness and it is that which generates talent and willingness to drive."

"What happens in Barcelona 'B' is a good model in terms of competitions. If the talent is playing in [a feeder club] in a competitive league you can call up players, There is immediate identification by the players with the process you're trying to implement in your first team. And it could be a great benefit because you don't have to work with a 26-man squad, but a 19-man squad and just recall the best young guys. If Ryan [Bertrand, who has had seven loan periods] and Josh [McEachran] could make the jump from Championship to Premiership every week, their involvement would be better."

However, Villas-Boas did declare that a new batch of talent was emerging from Chelsea's youth team, which won the FA Youth Cup in 2010 for the first time since 1961.

Villas-Boas said: "They are coming. They are coming. There's a generation coming. I think so. I believe so."

And the Blues boss wants all his loan players to flourish at the clubs they have been sent to, telling them it is not good enough for them to return to Stamford Bridge having failed to establish themselves elsewhere.

As well as McEachran, Patrick van Aanholt and Gael Kakuta were farmed out again this week, moving to Vitesse Arnhem and Dijon, respectively.

The latter two are at their second loan clubs this season, having made just a handful of appearances each at Wigan and Bolton.

Villas-Boas said: "If they're unable to triumph over there, it can't just be a manager's decision. They have to show they are capable of triumphing in a difficult environment. It is never a good option if you come back early - it means something went wrong."

His words have some merit...but to blame the setup of English football is a case of passing the buck is it not?

After all....forget Fergies Fledglings

Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverley are not only showing up for United, but also starting to make noise with regards to the national team.

 

[Zen86]

All he's done since coming to England is blame everyone and everything for various failures.

 

[::sonny::]

Manchester United Reserves>Barcelona B

Close Thread

 

[Crustanoid]

Why doesn't he try loaning his players to lower league clubs?

 

[Amir]

After all....forget Fergies Fledglings

Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverley are not only showing up for United, but also starting to make noise with regards to the national team.

But look at the difference. Aside from Beckham's four matches for Preston, the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles, Butt didn't have to go out on loan. The reserves were probably a good ladder to the first team. Now it's nowhere near, so both Cleverley and Welbeck went on loans, more than one, until they were good enough to play for us regularly.

Loans now serve a similar function to what reserve football used to be, and it's OK for the few who go out and get a good loan. But some don't find a club or do get loaned out and barely play. If you could keep them at their original club and offer them the chance to progress under their own club and coaching staff with football of good quality (like a B team. Or reserve league of better quality) than it would have it merits.

 

[Cina]

I was sort of expecting him to be like Mourinho and entertain us, but he's just a moaning cnut.

 

[Sultan]

His ideas do merit a serious debate. What would happen if say one of the feeder clubs won promotion to the top division? What's the system in Spain?

The present system is definitely flawed. Squad and young players need good opposition to improve at a better rate. There's just too much of a gap at present between say the first team and the reserves.

 

[Hectic]

Sounds like Mourinho to me, minus the success.

 

[kietotheworld]

His ideas do merit a serious debate. What would happen if say one of the feeder clubs won promotion to the top division? What's the system in Spain?

The present system is definitely flawed. Squad and young players need good opposition to improve at a better rate. There's just too much of a gap at present between say the first team and the reserves.

They simply don't get promoted.

 

[Ray Peterson]

His ideas do merit a serious debate. What would happen if say one of the feeder clubs won promotion to the top division? What's the system in Spain?

The present system is definitely flawed. Squad and young players need good opposition to improve at a better rate. There's just too much of a gap at present between say the first team and the reserves.

It must have some problems, I seem to recall that Spurs and City scrapped their reserve teams. Due to the nature and history of the football league structure, I'm not sure B teams will be the answer.

 

[Sultan]

Focus on the message, not the messenger.

 

[steeeb]

There is a cap to what level they can be promoted to.

It's a bit stupid that say if 2-3 B teams fill the top spots, then the promoted teams will be for example teams 4-7.

It would destroy lower league football IMO. The reserve league does need an overhaul though, especially for the bigger teams.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Who cares what he thinks, he'll probably be sacked at the end of the season anyway.

 

[Sultan]

But look at the difference. Aside from Beckham's four matches for Preston, the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles, Butt didn't have to go out on loan. The reserves were probably a good ladder to the first team. Now it's nowhere near, so both Cleverley and Welbeck went on loans, more than one, until they were good enough to play for us regularly.

Loans now serve a similar function to what reserve football used to be, and it's OK for the few who go out and get a good loan. But some don't find a club or do get loaned out and barely play. If you could keep them at their original club and offer them the chance to progress under their own club and coaching staff with football of good quality (like a B team. Or reserve league of better quality) than it would have it merits.

It must have some problems, I seem to recall that Spurs and City scrapped their reserve teams. Due to the nature and history of the football league structure, I'm not sure B teams will be the answer.

Quite.

I would also expect massive revenue rises and interest in those leagues rising massively if we had say United's, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, and Spurs second strings playing.

I actually now enjoy watching Carling cup games because we get to see some of our younger players competing with better players, and in some ways has become a more interesting competition than the FA Cup.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Quite.

I would also expect massive revenue rises and interest in those leagues rising massively if we had say United's, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, and Spurs second strings playing.

I actually now enjoy watching Carling cup games because we get to see some of our younger players competing with better players, and in some ways has become a more interesting competition than the FA Cup.

But what right do the top team's B sides have to be parachuted into the lower leagues? What about the teams who earn promotion from the league below being denied that promotion because B teams are dropped in instead.

They'd have to start at the very bottom & work their way up, over a number of years, otherwise its not fair.

 

[Ray Peterson]

But what right do the top team's B sides have to be parachuted into the lower leagues? What about the teams who earn promotion from the league below being denied that promotion because B teams are dropped in instead.

They'd have to start at the very bottom & work their way up, over a number of years, otherwise its not fair.

They wouldn't do that. I could see them having a deal like we did with Royal Antwerp, but instead of feeding them a handful of players, they'd basically take over the team. Clubs in financial difficulties may find it a good opportunity to survive, but they'd basically give up their independence and eventually their identities and the fans wouldn't be happy.

 

[Sultan]

But what right do the top team's B sides have to be parachuted into the lower leagues? What about the teams who earn promotion from the league below being denied that promotion because B teams are dropped in instead.

They'd have to start at the very bottom & work their way up, over a number of years, otherwise its not fair.

The idea is to give the best prospects better opposition. Your opposition to the idea drops the standards of opposition than is at present.

Teams can still gain promotion from outside the main leagues. Just increase the size of the league by a few teams. Get rid of some of the deadwood cup competitions these teams play.

 

[Reapersoul20]

He's completely right, in this case. The youth setup in England is laughable. I had more trials, more training and more scouts spot me in Spain than I did England.

Not as bad as Ireland, mind.

Few things do need to be sorted out with the reserve system though. He's right in saying it's not competitive enough for sure.

 

[Zen86]

I don't think the solution to our youth setup is to turn the lower leagues into a conveyor belt of players to be farmed by the football elite.

 

[The Taurean]

His ideas do merit a serious debate. What would happen if say one of the feeder clubs won promotion to the top division? What's the system in Spain?

The present system is definitely flawed. Squad and young players need good opposition to improve at a better rate. There's just too much of a gap at present between say the first team and the reserves.

i don't think they are allowed promotion even if they win.

But surely, it would be unfair on the other lower league clubs as atleast 4 premier clubs could have their reserve teams come into the championship.

Instead, they could propose a european model between top reserve teams.

edit: as to increasing the size of the clubs competing for the championship, i guess its a balance between operating costs and money earned.

 

[Sultan]

Instead, they could propose a european model between top reserve teams..

Too much travel, and expense.

Anyhow, it's better the financial benefits from such a scheme would remain locally.

 

[Sultan]

If this scheme was to be introduced it would improve players from lower leagues, and increase the transfer value of their players.

 

[pocco]

AVB has called it spot on here. The title for the article is daft, they should be in agreement with AVB, not mocking him. This needs to be addressed because the level of the reserves is just shite. If these youngsters could somehow play competitive football on a daily basis, it'd do them the world of good. Especially in our case. It'd save us having to loan out players, which we have had to do quite a lot recently.

 

[Guy Incognito]

How is this any different from Benitez, Mourinho to an extent when they got slaughtered for saying this? Doing disservice and all that.

 

[kietotheworld]

I seem to remember Peter Kenyon got dogs abuse for suggesting this.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Chelsea's problem is they keep chopping and changing managers. Which means while one manager may have a certain philosophy of how the team should develop, another may not. A player could be out of Ancelotti's plans like Bosingwa but find new impetus with AVB.

Roman seems to think splashing the cash will hold some reserve for the future. How much did they spend to get Arnesen and how many players did they produce in the first team? They don't have any coherent style of football, an identity even.

 

[Smores]

The lower leagues aren't there to serve the footballing elite and they should be protected. I'd rather keep our flawed local system with 5 divisions than seeing United B, City B, Arsenal B, Chelsea B transform the lower leagues into training sessions.

I'd agree things could be improved, but find another way

 

[e.cantona]

The lower leagues aren't there to serve the footballing elite and they should be protected. I'd rather keep our flawed local system with 5 divisions than seeing United B, City B, Arsenal B, Chelsea B transform the lower leagues into training sessions.

I'd agree things could be improved, but find another way

Agree with this. B teams would only favour the big teams, like it does in Spain. United today could probably field at least one team able to compete in the Championship in adition to our first team. So like Barca we could buy every talented youngster and offer competetive football every week in their progress to first team football. Financially no problem for us or the other top clubs. The same cant be said about Wolves, WBA etc.

 

[Sultan]

The lower leagues aren't there to serve the footballing elite and they should be protected. I'd rather keep our flawed local system with 5 divisions than seeing United B, City B, Arsenal B, Chelsea B transform the lower leagues into training sessions.

I'd agree things could be improved, but find another way

I think the idea serves well the lower league teams just as much as the bigger clubs.

 

[SteveJ]

Regardless of the possible merits of AVB's argument, it's very self-serving - not enough good young Chelsea players coming through? Solution: change English football, not Chelsea; spent countless millions yet still relying on the same old faces? Solution: change English football, not Chelsea. It's a similar line of greedy & selfish argument to those old favourites 'no relegation for the big clubs,' 'seperate television deals,' 'League games played abroad' etc etc.

Do we really want what's left of the soul of the sport torn out just to accomodate the likes of Abramovich & others who would willingly dilute the domestic game for their own selfish ends? I guess when AVB inevitably gets fired or 'mutually-consented,' he can claim it's the British game that failed, not him, oh no, perish the thought...

 

[kf]

I think the idea serves well the lower league teams just as much as the bigger clubs.

Don't really like the idea of B teams playing in effectively the same league as the parent club but I don't understand how it works in Spain. Can Barcelona B get promoted/relegated for example or is the league rigged so that can't happen? The idea of Barca v Barca B as a proper league game stinks. And rigging the league so promotion/relegation is out of the question also stinks.

 

[Sewelly The Geordie]

The idea of B teams playing in our lower leagues is just a complete no go tbh. Unlike Spain we have a thriving lower league system and allowing big clubs to have their reserves in the league system pisses all over the credibility of historic lower league teams (some older and with more pedigree than those currently occupying the top flight) and just serves to play into the hands of big clubs monopolising players.

 

[Zen86]

I think the idea serves well the lower league teams just as much as the bigger clubs.

How is that then?

 

[Team Brian GB]

This sort of thing is not compatible with English football at all, the only sort of thing I can think of that would look after both sets of interests is to have one, premier league feeder team that plays an exhibition match against a championship side every week, without appearing in the championship table.

You also then be able to send it abroad and use it as a PR tool for the premier league as well.

 

[rcoobc]

A lot of people involved in football have been calling for this to be implemented. And Weaste. I hope it never happens, it never should have happened elsewhere either.

 

[Sultan]

How is that then?

-TV revenue increase

-Transfer revenue chances increase

-Bigger gates

 

[Sultan]

The present system is not helping anyone. Lower league teams are struggling financially. The reserves competition is not providing the level of competitive football required to help bring through young players.

 

[SteveJ]

Arsene Wenger: "It is an idea we have heard before many times and it suits the bigger clubs, but it does not necessarily fit with the culture of English football. Why? Because everybody is supporting a club," he said.

"The supporters of Barnet do not want their club to be stopped to be promoted because the reserve team of Arsenal is in front of them.

"It is very difficult to mix the interests of the smaller clubs with the interests of the big clubs who could have a second team and could be competitive in the smaller leagues."

Wenger continued: "Then the biggest problem that they want to sort out here is for players between 18 and 21, the integration into the first team.

"It would give you a better indication of how competitive a player can be at a certain level if you can put him somewhere.

"We give our players out on loan to the lower leagues and that is not bad as well because they learn how to cope with different environments and if they manage to convince people that they can play in there they come back."

.........

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

Everton's David Moyes admits bid to field reserve team in Conference

David Moyes has revealed he once applied to register an Everton reserve team to play in the Conference in an attempt to enhance the development of the club's young players.

The Chelsea manager, André Villas-Boas, restarted the debate over producing more homegrown talent this week when claiming England should follow Spain's example of allowing top-flight clubs to field second teams in the lower leagues. That avenue, Moyes admitted on Friday, was explored by Everton several years ago but was deemed a non-starter following discussions with the Football Association.

Moyes said: "Four or five years ago I tried to put an Everton reserve team into the Conference because it would have been better football for them. My plan was to use Widnes's stadium as the home ground and that when Everton were playing away the B team would have played in the Conference there. I thought the games would have been better, more competitive and more realistic for the players. But we would have had to have gone into division nine of the North-west Outer Counties League or whatever you want to call it and it would have taken 10 or 11 years to get through."

The Everton manager believes the Conference would have benefited from increased crowds and that to field a second team any higher would be "unfair" and against the tradition of the game in this country. His motivation was to move young players into a routine that mirrored that of the first team, rather than the current schedule of midweek reserve fixtures.

"Because the games would tend to be on a Saturday or a Sunday the young players would be able to follow the same programme as the senior ones. The training week is similar and the players can do similar work," Moyes explained. "When your reserve games are Tuesday or Wednesday night it makes it difficult to follow programmes and your weekends become difficult because the younger players may have to come with the first team but not play. Before you know it you have young boys missing training sessions and, first and foremost, we have to make sure their development is right."

Guardian

..

 

[Smores]

This sort of thing is not compatible with English football at all, the only sort of thing I can think of that would look after both sets of interests is to have one, premier league feeder team that plays an exhibition match against a championship side every week, without appearing in the championship table.

You also then be able to send it abroad and use it as a PR tool for the premier league as well.

I had the exact same idea when I was thinking about how this might work. That I wouldn't mind seeing