Film Avengers: Doomsday | December 18th

Dirty Schwein said:
It won't fail but it needs to do really big numbers, the budget for this is probably gigantic with that cast.

I wonder if Dune 3 will eat into its box office gross. There's another big movie coming out around then too, can't remember what it is... Jumanji or Digger I think.
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They're releasing it at Christmas to guarantee those numbers, I reckon.

Even if it's not well received critically, with the fanbase, it's bound to do big money. Look at the Michael Jackson film that recently came out - roundly panned, but already cleared a billion at the box office.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
It won't fail but it needs to do really big numbers, the budget for this is probably gigantic with that cast.

I wonder if Dune 3 will eat into its box office gross. There's another big movie coming out around then too, can't remember what it is... Jumanji or Digger I think.
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I think people will see both in this instance. I don't expect Dune by itself to eat into it much because just anecdotally - I know tons of people who never watched Dune, or never watched it beyond the initial hype of the first. Yet a lot of those same people have watched the original marvel cast movies. In other words - I would find it hard to believe many people would go for Dune over an Avengers movie if they would only pick one of the two.
 
MiceOnMeth said:
I do think people are overstating the build up to Thanos though

He was in the end credits for 2 Avengers movies for a combined 30 seconds and then 5 minutes sitting on a chair in the guardians of the galaxy doing feck all

If you never saw those then it wouldn't make an ounce of difference when he shows up in Infinity War - him destroying Hulk and killing Loki was enough to make you go "oh feck this guy is the real deal"
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Yeah I think it just had a better path towards the big bad. You had all these superheroes doing their own shit and then having to come together, including a civil war.

This one hasn't had the "build" in terms of wanting to see the guys work together or hints of a threat.

You've also got the issue of there's so many characters so if there's a world ending scenario where the heck are most of these guys if they're not attending the situation.
 
MiceOnMeth said:
I do think people are overstating the build up to Thanos though

He was in the end credits for 2 Avengers movies for a combined 30 seconds and then 5 minutes sitting on a chair in the guardians of the galaxy doing feck all

If you never saw those then it wouldn't make an ounce of difference when he shows up in Infinity War - him destroying Hulk and killing Loki was enough to make you go "oh feck this guy is the real deal"
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With Thanos, there were at least the seeds being planted throughout.

Loki and Ronan are both main villains in films with it turning out that they're essentially underlings for Thanos. Over the course of the other films, we saw the other characters introduced and established, as well as the artifacts that turned out to be the Infinity Stones.

What's happened here? A bunch of random films (and TV shows) with no obvious connection outside of the occasional "multi-verse" stuff, characters barely interacting over what is now five years since this 'saga' started, and then they've scrapped the planned villain (Kang) and pivoted to something that just randomly throws everyone together to fight Doom, who was only introduced in the post-credits scene of First Steps last year.
 
Alex99 said:
With Thanos, there were at least the seeds being planted throughout.

Loki and Ronan are both main villains in films with it turning out that they're essentially underlings for Thanos. Over the course of the other films, we saw the other characters introduced and established, as well as the artifacts that turned out to be the Infinity Stones.

What's happened here? A bunch of random films (and TV shows) with no obvious connection outside of the occasional "multi-verse" stuff, characters barely interacting over what is now five years since this 'saga' started, and then they've scrapped the planned villain (Kang) and pivoted to something that just randomly throws everyone together to fight Doom, who was only introduced in the post-credits scene of First Steps last year.
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But then, the major criticism of their films was the fact that you had to watch X and Y to understand Z. I think they've tried to dial that down and it's not worked out, as now it's gone 180.


Personally I preferred it before.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
But then, the major criticism of their films was the fact that you had to watch X and Y to understand Z. I think they've tried to dial that down and it's not worked out, as now it's gone 180.


Personally I preferred it before.
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I don't think they have dialled it down. If anything, they dialled it up, and this is them trying to return to the formula that worked.

There were loads of TV shows and movies, all sort of related but mainly directionless in their links (even with the Kang stuff), but then there were still a decent number that seemed not to relate to anything (some of which went on to have follow ups years later). Then you've got the Netflix TV shows which have sort of been made canon again, as well as a load of other Marvel IPs that were outside the MCU.

When they're trying to tell a multi-verse story, it's all just been needlessly oversaturated, aimless and confusing.
 
Chris Evans clearly not getting any work outside of the Marvel Universe that he needs to get another fat paycheque.

The issue with this is one is that some characters (I assume) will be coming from the tv shows that Disney have been pumping out. I only watched the first season of Loki last week as an example, so would have been baffled as to why he would be in this film all of a sudden.

Will still watch it when on tv, mind you, but will clearly need a lot of recaps on things I havent watched in this new era.
 
Red Shorts said:
Chris Evans clearly not getting any work outside of the Marvel Universe that he needs to get another fat paycheque.

The issue with this is one is that some characters (I assume) will be coming from the tv shows that Disney have been pumping out. I only watched the first season of Loki last week as an example, so would have been baffled as to why he would be in this film all of a sudden.

Will still watch it when on tv, mind you, but will clearly need a lot of recaps on things I havent watched in this new era.
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It looks like hardly any of it links in with the TV shows to be honest. Kevin Feige basically threw Marvel’s whole TV division under the bus and blamed them for the company’s lack of recent box office success, which was somewhat unfair as most of the TV shows have been good while many of the movies have been slop. This movie seems to be more about nostalgia mining, by bringing back Chris Evans, RDJ and the Russos, as well as the Fox X-Men, and sidelining the more recent Marvel stuff.
 
MiceOnMeth said:
I do think people are overstating the build up to Thanos though

He was in the end credits for 2 Avengers movies for a combined 30 seconds and then 5 minutes sitting on a chair in the guardians of the galaxy doing feck all

If you never saw those then it wouldn't make an ounce of difference when he shows up in Infinity War - him destroying Hulk and killing Loki was enough to make you go "oh feck this guy is the real deal"
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The infinity stones were the build up, though. For about a bajillion movies!

With this "saga" we've gone from a half dozen shows with no connection to one another, and then Kang showed up in Loki, and then Eternals ended with a Celestial turning up, and then Wanda really turned everything up a notch multiverse wise which also finally started to turn everything towards Kang. Then they sacked the dickhead who played Kang. Now we're being told to almost dive into this blind after a single F4 movie.

Having said that I seriously doubt, or hope, that everything isn't as clear cut as it being Chris Evans returning as the real Captain America, and RDJ is an alternate world Stark. I have a feeling that they've got something else up their sleeve.

In the trailer when Thor says "that's not possible." If it really is said in that scene with Cap then he'd have no reason to say that. It's not like Captain America is dead. So maybe he's meeting Loki pretending to be Cap or something because.....reasons? Or maybe Cap has just said "Hail Hydra lol" or something else entirely out of character.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
The infinity stones were the build up, though. For about a bajillion movies!

With this "saga" we've gone from a half dozen shows with no connection to one another, and then Kang showed up in Loki, and then Eternals ended with a Celestial turning up, and then Wanda really turned everything up a notch multiverse wise which also finally started to turn everything towards Kang. Then they sacked the dickhead who played Kang. Now we're being told to almost dive into this blind after a single F4 movie.

Having said that I seriously doubt, or hope, that everything isn't as clear cut as it being Chris Evans returning as the real Captain America, and RDJ is an alternate world Stark. I have a feeling that they've got something else up their sleeve.

In the trailer when Thor says "that's not possible." If it really is said in that scene with Cap then he'd have no reason to say that. It's not like Captain America is dead. So maybe he's meeting Loki pretending to be Cap or something because.....reasons? Or maybe Cap has just said "Hail Hydra lol" or something else entirely out of character.
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A bunch of those infinity stones were retconned though, out of other objects. They weren't mentioned until Guardians of the Galaxy, I don't think? Only after that did they decide three of them had already appeared disguised as something else and given different names.
 
decorativeed said:
A bunch of those infinity stones were retconned though, out of other objects. They weren't mentioned until Guardians of the Galaxy, I don't think? Only after that did they decide three of them had already appeared disguised as something else and given different names.
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Ah yeah, you're correct
 
Mr Pigeon said:
The infinity stones were the build up, though. For about a bajillion movies!

With this "saga" we've gone from a half dozen shows with no connection to one another, and then Kang showed up in Loki, and then Eternals ended with a Celestial turning up, and then Wanda really turned everything up a notch multiverse wise which also finally started to turn everything towards Kang. Then they sacked the dickhead who played Kang. Now we're being told to almost dive into this blind after a single F4 movie.

Having said that I seriously doubt, or hope, that everything isn't as clear cut as it being Chris Evans returning as the real Captain America, and RDJ is an alternate world Stark. I have a feeling that they've got something else up their sleeve.

In the trailer when Thor says "that's not possible." If it really is said in that scene with Cap then he'd have no reason to say that. It's not like Captain America is dead. So maybe he's meeting Loki pretending to be Cap or something because.....reasons? Or maybe Cap has just said "Hail Hydra lol" or something else entirely out of character.
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Yeah the whole thing is an absolute mess. I have watched everything they ever released and I am still confused with what's going on.

Marvel/Disney are hoping they have enough credit in the bank to get returning fans due to Avengers being an enormous brand name, because Disney have panicked, seeing their viewing figures and revenue drop significantly since End Game.

They have realised that they ruined their once amazing franchise, with all the tv shows and crap movies coming out after End Game.They have had to resort to bringing back their old cast members plus throwing in big names such as the X-Men and Fantastic 4 in the hope that fans will just forget all the shit that came post End Game. They are probably correct that Doomsday will rekindle the fire of their fans and are going back to the old format starting with this movie.

But they have left so many loose ends, having so many characters left without a complete story arc and are hoping everyone just forgets and ignores them.

The likes of She-Hulk, Ms Marvel, Moon Knight, Adam Warlock, the Eternals etc are being ignored, and there is no explanation about what happened to the Council of Kangs or the celestial at the end of the Eternals

The MCU has become a shit show, and Doomsday will obviously save that. They got desperate.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Yeah the whole thing is an absolute mess. I have watched everything they ever released and I am still confused with what's going on.

Marvel/Disney are hoping they have enough credit in the bank to get returning fans due to Avengers being an enormous brand name, because Disney have panicked, seeing their viewing figures and revenue drop significantly since End Game.

They have realised that they ruined their once amazing franchise, with all the tv shows and crap movies coming out after End Game.They have had to resort to bringing back their old cast members plus throwing in big names such as the X-Men and Fantastic 4 in the hope that fans will just forget all the shit that came post End Game. They are probably correct that Doomsday will rekindle the fire of their fans and are going back to the old format starting with this movie.

But they have left so many loose ends, having so many characters left without a complete story arc and are hoping everyone just forgets and ignores them.

The likes of She-Hulk, Ms Marvel, Moon Knight, Adam Warlock, the Eternals etc are being ignored, and there is no explanation about what happened to the Council of Kangs or the celestial at the end of the Eternals

The MCU has become a shit show, and Doomsday will obviously save that. They got desperate.
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I wouldn't be surprised if we are told Doom destroyed the Kangs and took their power which is why hes amped up. The build up to this has been a right mess.
 
Oldyella said:
I wouldn't be surprised if we are told Doom destroyed the Kangs and took their power which is why hes amped up. The build up to this has been a right mess.
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Yeah good point, it will just be a throw away line as well, they will just expect us fans to except it because 'oh wow look Captain America is back, WTF Tony Stark is Doom, oh my god the X-Men are back'. Throw in enough distractions and action to excite fans, in the hope that they ignore the mess and convoluted story lines.
 
Ish said:
I'll still watch this, even if I haven't watch almost anything else recently. Waited for all other marvel movies to hit streaming and watched at home.
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Yeah same, I've seen almost nothing since Endgame.
 
Redplane said:
You didn't miss much I think. Wandavision and Loki have their moments, everything else was shite IMHO. Including some of the movies since.
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Oh I actually saw both of those :lol:

But I've seen none of the movies after it I think.
 
I’m sorry but casting an actor whose character died in a different role is a big no no. This is worse than when Marlo Stanfield came back as a cop in a different Baltimore crime show
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Yeah the whole thing is an absolute mess. I have watched everything they ever released and I am still confused with what's going on.

Marvel/Disney are hoping they have enough credit in the bank to get returning fans due to Avengers being an enormous brand name, because Disney have panicked, seeing their viewing figures and revenue drop significantly since End Game.

They have realised that they ruined their once amazing franchise, with all the tv shows and crap movies coming out after End Game.They have had to resort to bringing back their old cast members plus throwing in big names such as the X-Men and Fantastic 4 in the hope that fans will just forget all the shit that came post End Game. They are probably correct that Doomsday will rekindle the fire of their fans and are going back to the old format starting with this movie.

But they have left so many loose ends, having so many characters left without a complete story arc and are hoping everyone just forgets and ignores them.

The likes of She-Hulk, Ms Marvel, Moon Knight, Adam Warlock, the Eternals etc are being ignored, and there is no explanation about what happened to the Council of Kangs or the celestial at the end of the Eternals

The MCU has become a shit show, and Doomsday will obviously save that. They got desperate.
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I'm sure they'll mention what happened to Kang/s in this. And they did return to the celestial from Eternals in that last Captain America film - it's just that nobody watched it.

The side effect of doing fewer films is that there now will inevitably be loads of loose ends as well as massive 5+ year gaps between films and their sequels.
 
Post Endgame I'd say Sam Raimi's Doctor Strange is quite a enjoyable watch.
 
FriedClams said:
I’m sorry but casting an actor whose character died in a different role is a big no no. This is worse than when Marlo Stanfield came back as a cop in a different Baltimore crime show
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All actors should be killed once their character is killed or the show ends
 
FrankDrebin said:
Post Endgame I'd say Sam Raimi's Doctor Strange is quite a enjoyable watch.
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Yeah, it's got some inventiveness and lots of fun moments in tha one. As has Thunderbolts and Shang Chi. Fantastic Four looked incredible, but was a tad formulaic. But all four are worth a watch.

I think some people have rose tinted specs on sometimes with Marvel. This phase has suffered from having too much happening and the novelty having inevitably worn off over the past 18 years. But the quality of these films isn't actually much worse than some of the early stuff - Ed Norton's Incredible Hulk, the first two Thors, Iron Man 2 and 3 - none of those stand up to much scrutiny.
 
I've started the post-Endgame stuff, as I have only watched 3 films since that (Strange, Thor and Guardians).

For TV series, I've watched Wandavision, Hawkeye, Loki and Moon Knight from the series, all enjoyable for me. Falcon and Winter Soldier was dull as hell.

Films, I've seen Black Widow, Eternals and Shang-Chi. Black Widow was ok, Eternals was a mess but Shang-Chi was really entertaining, and a nice surprise.

I've been doing this by chronological order to make sure I understand wtf is going on in the next Avengers film fully, as it seems you need to watch every ounce of Marvel stuff for a film like this to make sense. So far, I have no idea what will be in this film from all this stuff.
 
Red Shorts said:
I've started the post-Endgame stuff, as I have only watched 3 films since that (Strange, Thor and Guardians).

For TV series, I've watched Wandavision, Hawkeye, Loki and Moon Knight from the series, all enjoyable for me. Falcon and Winter Soldier was dull as hell.

Films, I've seen Black Widow, Eternals and Shang-Chi. Black Widow was ok, Eternals was a mess but Shang-Chi was really entertaining, and a nice surprise.

I've been doing this by chronological order to make sure I understand wtf is going on in the next Avengers film fully, as it seems you need to watch every ounce of Marvel stuff for a film like this to make sense. So far, I have no idea what will be in this film from all this stuff.
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I agree with your review.
Id say black widow was horrendous though, mostly cos she's not a true superhero but she basically escapes death in that movie multiple times which doesn't make sense. And the move should have happened years before end game, however it didn't introduce one of my fav characters (her sister)

I think moon knight won't have any bearing on the avengers or mcu at all.
Probably same with she hulk ...

decorativeed said:
I'm sure they'll mention what happened to Kang/s in this. And they did return to the celestial from Eternals in that last Captain America film - it's just that nobody watched it.

The side effect of doing fewer films is that there now will inevitably be loads of loose ends as well as massive 5+ year gaps between films and their sequels.
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I didn't mind the celestial explanation in the Captain America movie, but it happened way too late
It was a huge event that basically altered earth, it should have seismic consequences but it's basically a nothingness for most of the events after.

Shang chi was one my favourite post end game but has not been seen or mentioned upto now despite Wong being included.
 
IMDB:
"Heroes from three different worlds must unite when they're thrust together to confront a catastrophic danger that could destroy everything they know."

Well that's convenient. Sounds like we're doing another Endgame, just amplified by multivere factor to keep it more fresh?

I think they put themselves into a corner with Endgame (which imo was a a really good story leading up to the finale). It certainly feels forced hearing things like "strongest enemy", "end of the world" as first few sentences.

Anyway, as always a lot will depend on the villain. Thanos was well introduced character, with clear motivation and a lot of history behind. This villain is kept in secret and I'm smelling "Captain Marvel" shitty introduction (super powerful hero coming out of the blue from space, and then randomly disappearing). I hope they came up with something more interesting but the trailer is not encouraging. I'll admit I have not been following this wave of Marvel movies. I have seen Spider-Man, Thor, doctor strange and the guardians so I shouldn't be too far behind I guess? Oh and Deadpool but I expect this to be stand alone movie, as it clashes with the "serious" atmosphere Avengers are trying to keep. Some of the characters in last Deadpool (those from X Men) are part of Doomsday, so quite a lot of new characters to introduce - on top of completely unknown villain.

Is there an explanation why Downey Jr is playing Doctor Doom? I get that this character wears a metal armor, is a genius and likes science ( and machines in particular), but surely there's more to it then that?
 
Redplane said:
Well- he already sold his soul for starring in the Barbie movie
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I’d be more concerned that this Ghost Rider movie is going to be directed by the hack Shawn Levy, like Gosling’s Star Wars movie. Levy did the fecking awful Deadpool and Wolverine. It’s going to be even dumber than the Nicholas Cage Ghost Rider films.
 
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