Avoiding Past Transfer Mistakes: Profiles Not Players

Lentwood

Chairperson of the anti Bruno Fernandes Society
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Clearly the lack of a proper sporting structure has been a huge part of us wasting £1.5BN over the last decade or so.

We can blame some of our managers, EtH in particular had an appalling grasp of what was required in this league, but the reality is, guardrails and support teams should have been in-place to prevent him / them doing as much damage as they did.

In addition, some fear giving Amorim time will lead to similar issues, i.e. a big turnover of players if/when the next chap comes in...but that shouldn't be the case IF we target profiles and not players.

The emphasis should be on "what are the fundamental tools players need to survive and thrive in this league?" and any red flags in those areas should lead to an immediate, categorical, non-negotiable veto from the executives / scouting team.

So where did we go wrong (short version) under EtH and OGS, in terms of profiling players. Note, not a comprehensive list, and is only focused on the "red flags".

Casemiro - too slow, not mobile enough, can't cover ground

Eriksen - too slow, too weak, not mobile enough, can't cover ground

Anthony - too weak, too slow, not a powerful enough ball carrier / runner.

Martinez - far too small, too brittle, too slow

Bayindir - weak under the high ball, huge problem in the Premier League

Ugarte - too slow, can't cover enough ground, not dynamic enough, not a good enough ball carrier

Sancho - too slow, not a powerful ball carrier / runner, too weak, attitude problems, lack of fight and aggression

Ronaldo - too slow, not a strong presser, unwilling / unable to cover ground.

Maguire - prefers a back three, too slow for a progressive 4-2-3-1, ironically would have been probably quite good at his peak under Amorim, but misprofiled at the time.

The problem is, even a world-class coach can't teach a fish to climb a tree. We can bang on about coaching and systems all we like, but if our players are fundamentally too slow, too weak, too brittle, too small etc...for elite level football, then each coach is doomed to fail.

So, that in-mind, what qualities should we be saying are an absolute non-negotiable for new signings now, to ensure that we're not lumbered with totally useless busts and horrendous physical limitations?

For example, CBs....must be physically imposing, must be fast, must be strong, absolute minimum 6ft, ideally 6ft 2"+

CF - must be physically imposing, strong, minimum 6ft, ideally 6ft 2"+, good first touch, good aerially, aggressive

#10s / AMs / wide forwards - strong, fast, powerful runners, powerful ball carriers, aggressive, high-energy

Interested to hear other opinions...and note, I think I have only actually mentioned one or two 'technical' must haves there, focus for me should be on athleticism, in terms of core profile.
 
This is what Ineos say they are doing now, and it seems to be true.

Sir Jim blamed/attributed Zirkzee & De Ligt on ETH in his interview with G Neville, everyone else is officially an Ineos hire:

Dorgu, Sesko, Mbuemo, Cunha, Leon, Yoro, Chido, Heaven, Maz, Ugarte.

The only real question mark in terms of athleticism, speed, power etc. of these is Maz, who I think we just got on the cheap to replace AWB leaving and Ugarte, who certainly seems to have some issue with the pace of the league but then definitely had the reputation for being really mobile and someone who was limited but would cover huge amounts of ground i.e. the profile was right the scouting was not. Of all of these names, a few younger ones haven't really played enough but all the senior players bar Ugarte have been hits in my opinion (so far).
 
Yeah physicality and/or high level of technique. Dependant on position. CB's have to be big, fast, strong. Why do otherwise and complicate it. At least one CM has to be able to receive and pass the ball to a high level.

But this has always been the requirement. It's not a new modern thing.

I'm still amazed how many managers or managerial teams have got this wrong. To me its shouldn't need some incredible structure. It's the basics and at a club like United that has money and pull, it's relatively straightforward to achieve.

I'd also add be a team player rather than somebody playing like it's all about them(Garnacho, Rashford). It makes everything so much easier.
 
Baseball still view football data as the dark ages, they are so much further beyond now, probably only Brighton who are anywhere close in proper profiling.

It is a problem that we do still tend to focus on individual players as opposed to as you say, skillsets. Baleba being the main one, if he was the profile of player we wanted, we should have had a list.
 
Ineos has done pretty well in the last few transfer window. We won't be seeing any transfer for older players looking for a retirement payout. We will target players who wants to play for United, not for a paycheck. Just give it another 2-3 transfer windows, we will have a young squad capable of playing good football.
 
I agree with the premise but I think your list just highlights the difficulty in getting players in. I mean if you add the required technical abilities into your list you're talking about the perfect player so is your list actually the only non-negotiables?

The other issues is our academy players, what do you do with talented players who don't fit the profile? We've seen and as a fan base we're guilty of telling managers to find a way to fit players in if they show some talent.

We definitely do need a consistent profile across managers but then we need a consistent profile of manager too.
 
Hindsight is always 20/20.

Buying premier league proven players (as we did this summer) is probably the safest route possible.
 
So, that in-mind, what qualities should we be saying are an absolute non-negotiable for new signings now, to ensure that we're not lumbered with totally useless busts and horrendous physical limitations?

For example, CBs....must be physically imposing, must be fast, must be strong, absolute minimum 6ft, ideally 6ft 2"+

CF - must be physically imposing, strong, minimum 6ft, ideally 6ft 2"+, good first touch, good aerially, aggressive

#10s / AMs / wide forwards - strong, fast, powerful runners, powerful ball carriers, aggressive, high-energy

Interested to hear other opinions...and note, I think I have only actually mentioned one or two 'technical' must haves there, focus for me should be on athleticism, in terms of core profile.
Yes agree with that and CM needs to be with good stamina, speed, strong in the tackle, good eye for long passes, able to carry the ball and anticipate when to arrive late into the box or just outside.
Ineos are supposedly profiling that as well as the players mindset, injury proneness and if they want to play for the club or just after a big wage packet.
So far Ugarte aside , the starting players havent been too bad individually, but we still have the Shaws, Dalots, Casemiros etc stinking up the place.
The fact the 2 years and out if not cutting the mustard or injury prone is also a step in the right direction. Obviously this cant be done over one or two windows, but the bomb squad is proof they mean business moving the shit out.
 
I believe INEOS did an excellent job this window when you consider the difficult position we were in having finished 15th and with no European football. I think the club will take the same approach next season and identify PL proven players to bring in to address the midfield. I wouldn’t be shocked if we brought in both Wharton and Baleba next summer.
 
I agree with the premise but I think your list just highlights the difficulty in getting players in. I mean if you add the required technical abilities into your list you're talking about the perfect player so is your list actually the only non-negotiables?

The other issues is our academy players, what do you do with talented players who don't fit the profile? We've seen and as a fan base we're guilty of telling managers to find a way to fit players in if they show some talent.

We definitely do need a consistent profile across managers but then we need a consistent profile of manager too.
Yes but we're one of the richest clubs in the World and still a huge pull for players, so I get we're shopping in a small market for the ideal players but that shouldn't be a problem for us. It's proven a problem for clubs like Newcastle, for sure.

Even so, we're not making the bar ridiculously high with the base profile. Martinez, for example, was a ridiculous signing. A CB below average male height. He could be Baresi, Vidic and Rio rolled into one but he's still going to be massively exposed in certain scenarios.

Same with Casemiro. If you can't run and you're not mobile, forget it. You're imposing a huge limitation not just on the individual but also on the system and the team / your teammates. Who can forget the rumours of OGS being shocked to discover Sancho was actually quite slow, after initially thinking he was signing a fast winger? Its madness, utter, utter madness.

I think you answer your own question on the Academy players to be honest. A red flag is a red flag, and the fact a player came through the Academy shouldn't make any difference. I have no sympathy for Mainoo, for example. Love him as a technician but Amorim has tried him in all manner of positions and given him ample opportunities and he's failed to show he can cut it. The entire team can't be held back because we have a technically neat but physically limited player who happens to have been born close to Old Trafford.

I'm sure we have all grown tired over the last decade of looking at the two teams lining up in the tunnel and seeing the opposition look meaner, taller, faster, stronger than United.

What I would say, and this might end-up playing in Mainoo's favour, is that you can possibly get away with carrying one player physically, IF the rest are 100% at it and IF the team is a well-oiled machine. Currently, we're not that and we have too many physically weak players - so Mainoo is suffering.
 
What I would say, and this might end-up playing in Mainoo's favour, is that you can possibly get away with carrying one player physically, IF the rest are 100% at it and IF the team is a well-oiled machine. Currently, we're not that and we have too many physically weak players - so Mainoo is suffering.
Mainoo would’ve been the biggest beneficiary of Baleba (or such profile) signing, as they would complement each other well. But it didn’t happen
 
Donnarumma is 26 and world class, I think it's quite inexplicable we have dismissed him as a signing which would have solidified the keeper position for years, we still need to be in the market for proven quality.
 
Donnarumma is 26 and world class, I think it's quite inexplicable we have dismissed him as a signing which would have solidified the keeper position for years, we still need to be in the market for proven quality.
Its not inexplicable. It was reported by credible sources that he wanted a contract worth around £300K per week. INOES are unwilling to pay those sorts of wages now, especially for new signings.

I understand an unwillingness to pay premium salaries will always be unpopular with fans but I actually think its very sensible and a net positive overall.

It prevents disharmony in the squad and it prevents you being lumbered with players you can't sell because their salaries are way too high. Its also no guarantee of success.

Case in-point, we handed out huge contracts like sweets for a decade and won next to nothing of note. Liverpool, on the other hand, have stuck to a very reasonable wage structure, and have won everything.

My view is let the mercenaries go to City and Chelsea. We offer good wages, but not crazy wages, and if that's not enough, we move on.
 
Last season we were woefully short on pace and physicality so we brought in Dorgu mid season.

Yes, he's added pace and physical strength to the team, but he's a desperately poor footballer, playing in a pivotal position of this manager's formation. Attacks and passing moves continously break down on his side as he doesn't have the technical ceiling necessary, and he was recently dropped again for Dalot.

Likewise, we brought in Ugarte as he was seen as a midfield ballwinner who could win a lot of duels, another thing we were lacking in the team. But again, he's proven to be just a downright poor footballer, and it's obvious Amorim doesn't rate him.

So it seems every time we profile a type of player to bring into the team to "solve" one problem, it ends up causing another problem!