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2019-20 Performances


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Cassidy

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You clearly twisting it and not read the whole post but just one sentence. That’s different to Carrol won header because of his height. I always gave credit to Carrol is good in the air but you didn’t include it.

What I meant was Tuanzebe was never good in aerial duel. But he’s still better than Lindelof because Tuanzebe would have still won header against most player who are shorter than him like Schlupp while Lindelof lost header against Schlupp. This is why I mentioned height. You were replying to my post comment on someone who compare it to Lindelof’s case.

It’s called a good defending when the striker struggled to header the ball easily.

I have explained this before, You don’t just go towards the ball like that, players need to get the timing right when header the ball. Yes it’s true player should attacking the ball first to win the header but not in every scenario.

If he knows he can’t reach the ball by going towards the ball then he’s right not to do so. If every players can win header by going towards the ball first then everyone would have done the same thing. That’s not how heading the ball always work.
Then we agree, nothing about Lindelof is relavant since I never mentioned him
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Then we agree, nothing about Lindelof is relavant since I never mentioned him
And you just spot that?? I have mentioned this like 3-4 times about Tuanzebe not good in header he’s just an okay one. But he knows how to deal with his case well enough against the likes of Joelinton & Carrol in the air which is proven yesterday.

Why the feck in the first place are you jumping to a conversation that related to Tuanzebe’s header vs Lindelof’s header then?
 

Bwuk

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I like Axel but it’s clear Lindelof is a better player at the moment.
 

Cassidy

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And you just spot that?? I have mentioned this like 3-4 times about Tuanzebe not good in header he’s just an okay one. But he knows how to deal with his case against the likes of Joelinton & Carrol which is proven yesterday.

Why the feck in the first place are jumping to a conversation that related to Tuanzebe’s header vs Lindelof’s header then?
I didn't

I simply pointed out that losing that many duels was poor to which you disagreed and started making a case for why he had a good ariel game to which I disagreed. Then you finally came round to the fact he didn't have a good ariel game, so we agree and I am moving on.
 

Hawks2008

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Good game but he did lose a couple aerial duels vs Joelinton so clearly we should get rid.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I didn't

I simply pointed out that losing that many duels was poor to which you disagreed and started making a case for why he had a good ariel game to which I disagreed. Then you finally came round to the fact he didn't have a good ariel game, so we agree and I am moving on.
Yes you did! This was the post you jumped into.

Against Joelinton & Carroll and they both are taller than Axel. Lindelof lost aerial duel to Schlupp!! :rolleyes:
2/11 is poor
‘’Finally”? When did I ever say he’s good in aerial duel? You just have nothing to reply everytime I told you that players don’t just go toward the ball or attacking the ball to win header because in some scenario player could lose the timing of the header. If Tuanzebe knows he can’t reach it then he’s right not attacking the ball first.
 

A-man

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Better at what exactly?
I think the biggest difference where Lindelof is better is in his positioning and awareness. That will come with matches for sure, but this is really Lindelof’s biggest strengths imo, while Tuanzebe is often in the wrong place, especially when he is played as fullback.
 

Cassidy

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Yes you did! This was the post you jumped into.





‘’Finally”? When did I ever say he’s good in aerial duel? You just have nothing to reply everytime I told you that players don’t just go toward the ball or attacking the ball to win header because in some scenario player could lose the timing of the header. If Tuanzebe knows he can’t reach it then he’s right not attacking the ball first.
You argued that he had a good game in the air and the stat was miss-leading and I disagree. He didn't have a good game in the air.

Then he already failed with his positioning. However in the example Carrol was behind him, he then attacked the ball and won the header in front of Axel so it isn't the case here. Had he attacked the ball first he wins the header. It down to anticipation, he was slow to react
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You argued that he had a good game in the air and the stat was miss-leading and I disagree. He didn't have a good game in the air.

Then he already failed with his positioning. However in the example Carrol was behind him, he then attacked the ball and won the header in front of Axel so it isn't the case here. Had he attacked the ball first he wins the header. It down to anticipation, he was slow to react
I said he did well to give Carrol & Joelinton not having an easy to header the ball. There are many way how to deal against strikers who are great in aerial duel and what Axel did yesterday was one of them.

That's not how we call positioning. I agree it's down to anticipation but the fact that he knows where to timing his header is better than missing a timing of the header, that's also part of anticipation. If Carrol was behind him & still won the header that's because Carrol is aggressive to beat Axel strength to strength. Axel anticipated the timing where the ball would be landed in the exact spot, attacking the ball first without even sure you can jump high enough to get it could cost Carrol's free header (just like the goal Vestegaard scored because Lindelof couldn't timing the ball)
 

Cassidy

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I said he did well to give Carrol & Joelinton not having an easy to header the ball. There are many way how to deal against strikers who are great in aerial duel and what Axel did yesterday was one of them.

That's not how we call positioning. I agree it's down to anticipation but the fact that he knows where to timing his header is better than missing a timing of the header, that's also part of anticipation. If Carrol was behind him & still won the header that's because Carrol is aggressive to beat Axel strength to strength. Axel anticipated the timing where the ball would be landed in the exact spot, attacking the ball first without even sure you can jump high enough to get it could cost Carrol's free header (just like the goal Vestegaard scored because Lindelof couldn't timing the ball)
Key thing missing here is that the ball was always at a height where he could head it. He simple made an error in this situation and allowed Carrol to beat him to the header.

There are many things he could have done. Blocked Carrols path to the ball for one. It wasn't great defending, I don’t see the need to make out like it was just because its Axel.

No need to make out that he was smart and knew he couldnt win the header so didnt try. He was caught flat footed in that instance and Carrol got the run on him
 

Mickson

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I think the biggest difference where Lindelof is better is in his positioning and awareness. That will come with matches for sure, but this is really Lindelof’s biggest strengths imo, while Tuanzebe is often in the wrong place, especially when he is played as fullback.
I can see your point there. It's not easy just coming in for a game here and there, and especially when one of the games is at fullback. He's not a fullback so I think that's a bit unfair regarding his position. I think Axel will be first choice at the end of the season, he has a lot of things in his locker that Lindelof hasn't.
 

Red_toad

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Having a laugh at all lindelof critics saying play Tuanzebe because lindelof is to bad in the air. Tuanzebe won 2/11.
He lost quite a few where he actually made it difficult for the attacker to get a free header, Lindelof needs to learn that skill.
 

Mickson

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Having a laugh at all lindelof critics saying play Tuanzebe because lindelof is to bad in the air. Tuanzebe won 2/11.
That is nothing new to us who have followed him throughout his career. And yes, maybe Lindelof is better in the air? Maybe he isn't. Not really the point. You don't play Axel instead of Lindelof because he's better in the air. The point is that Axel is better at a lot of other things. He's faster, better at bringing up the ball, stronger, better tackler and even if he loses his duels, at least he's there trying to disturb the player. Axel has a lot of things that Lindelof will never have. Add that he's younger and haven't had a decent run in his best position. I have no doubt that Axel will be the better player in a year. Maybe I'm wrong, but I really donät believe that I am.
 
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He lost quite a few where he actually made it difficult for the attacker to get a free header, Lindelof needs to learn that skill.
The one against Carroll springs to mind, he was never going to win a duel with him. But he did enough to put him off so he couldn't get the header on target. This is something Lindeolf should of done against Southampton.
 

A-man

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I can see your point there. It's not easy just coming in for a game here and there, and especially when one of the games is at fullback. He's not a fullback so I think that's a bit unfair regarding his position. I think Axel will be first choice at the end of the season, he has a lot of things in his locker that Lindelof hasn't.
I think he had a few poor positioning moments even as CB, but as FB he often forgot his man totally. He remonds me a little of Bailly in that sense, unaware of what is going on behind him and not always making the right decisions. But again, this would most likely improve with matches. He and Lindelof have different styles. Axel has qualities that you mention in your other post like stronger and better tackler ( think he looks surprisingly slow however). Lindelof plays totally different with good awareness, reading the game etc. I personally believe that is why many rank Lindelof so low, because he has that quite style. He shuts down situations before they happen instead of recover with a tackle, with speed or with pure strength.

In the end, United need both of them, and also Maguire, to be sucessful. You must have at least three good centrebacks. There will be injuries, there will be two tough matches within four days, etc.
 

Inigo Montoya

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I think he had a few poor positioning moments even as CB, but as FB he often forgot his man totally. He remonds me a little of Bailly in that sense, unaware of what is going on behind him and not always making the right decisions. But again, this would most likely improve with matches. He and Lindelof have different styles. Axel has qualities that you mention in your other post like stronger and better tackler ( think he looks surprisingly slow however). Lindelof plays totally different with good awareness, reading the game etc. I personally believe that is why many rank Lindelof so low, because he has that quite style. He shuts down situations before they happen instead of recover with a tackle, with speed or with pure strength.

In the end, United need both of them, and also Maguire, to be sucessful. You must have at least three good centrebacks. There will be injuries, there will be two tough matches within four days, etc.
Bailly?

At least he doesn't Kung Fu kick players:lol:
 

A-man

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Bailly?

At least he doesn't Kung Fu kick players:lol:
Haha, that is true!
I do not mean that Bailly and Tuanzebe have many similarities. For me Bailly is a very raw, unschooled player while Tuanzebe is proper schooled and knows the basics. But he lacks some awareness and doesnt seem to have a great overview whats going on around him. He leaves the area where he should be to go in where the ball is. He also makes some poor decisions. When he gave away the pass against Arsenal, it was a mistake, but it was also a poor decision to play the more difficult and risky pass when he could have played it simple and safe. The poor awareness and poor decisions remind me of Bailly, but not the rest.
 

Mickson

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Haha, that is true!
I do not mean that Bailly and Tuanzebe have many similarities. For me Bailly is a very raw, unschooled player while Tuanzebe is proper schooled and knows the basics. But he lacks some awareness and doesnt seem to have a great overview whats going on around him. He leaves the area where he should be to go in where the ball is. He also makes some poor decisions. When he gave away the pass against Arsenal, it was a mistake, but it was also a poor decision to play the more difficult and risky pass when he could have played it simple and safe. The poor awareness and poor decisions remind me of Bailly, but not the rest.
I see your point with Bailly. I think that Axel is a better version of Bailly. More sensed. But they have quite a few things in common, absolutely.
 

thepolice123

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He is very composed on the ball and comfortabke defending on the ground. But I think he is equally as bad as Lindelof in the air.

Newcastle identified this and had Carroll post up against him.
Haha, that is true!
I do not mean that Bailly and Tuanzebe have many similarities. For me Bailly is a very raw, unschooled player while Tuanzebe is proper schooled and knows the basics. But he lacks some awareness and doesnt seem to have a great overview whats going on around him. He leaves the area where he should be to go in where the ball is. He also makes some poor decisions. When he gave away the pass against Arsenal, it was a mistake, but it was also a poor decision to play the more difficult and risky pass when he could have played it simple and safe. The poor awareness and poor decisions remind me of Bailly, but not the rest.
If you ask me the poor pass against Arsenal looks more down to lack of coaching preparations and inexperience. He is a right-footed CB playing at LB. The whole game he was receiving the ball with his back facing Arsenal and passing inwards with his right foot. He is clearly not comfortable playing down the line with his weaker foot. Any wayward pass across the defence would most certainky result in a goal.
 
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A-man

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If you ask me the poor pass against Arsenal looks more down to lack of coaching preparations and inexperience. He is a right-footed CB playing at LB. The whole game he was receiving the ball with his back facing Arsenal and passing inwards with his right foot. He is clearly not comfortable playing down the line with his weaker foot. Any wayward pass across the defence would most certainky result in a goal.
In general he struggled extra in that match just because he is right footed, but in that situation it did not matter. He had a very safe and simple pass option to Maguire who came for his rescue, but chose the difficult and risky. My own hypothesis is that Ole emphasizes the players to keep possession and to play their way out. He got his opportunity to show himself and made the wrong decision.
 

A-man

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I see your point with Bailly. I think that Axel is a better version of Bailly. More sensed. But they have quite a few things in common, absolutely.
They have things in common but still Tuanzebe is miles more of a ready player imo. Bailly has good games but very often he is totally out of position and his CB partner seems to never know what he is about to do. To me it looks like Bailly doesn’t have all the fundamentals. When his partner moves up for a header, he does not cover, he often misses the offside line, etc.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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That was his chance to impress Southgate but he injured himself. We are cursed. But then again last season he wasn’t really blessed to stay away from injury with Aston Villa.

Hopefully it’s not a big injury and hope he comes back again next week.
 

A-man

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That was his chance to impress Southgate but he injured himself. We are cursed. But then again last season he wasn’t really blessed to stay away from injury with Aston Villa.

Hopefully it’s not a big injury and hope he comes back again next week.
Bad luck for him but in the end it may have been good as he didn’t impress too much as a left back last time. Better he gets his chance to impress as a CB. In the end it was a good game and a good point for United.
 

A-man

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Anybody who had a clue how bad it is? He is really needed now with 6 or 7 matches in 17 days.
 

A-man

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Wonder what happen. A 23 year old get that badly injured during warmup, wtf?! Of course he could be another in a long row of United CBs who is made from porcelain, but I am really starting to question how United handle their physical training. So many injured so early in the season.
 

RedSky

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Wonder what happen. A 23 year old get that badly injured during warmup, wtf?! Of course he could be another in a long row of United CBs who is made from porcelain, but I am really starting to question how United handle their physical training. So many injured so early in the season.
It's been happening for so long with so many different coaches that it makes you wonder if its something wrong with Carrington itself. It's weird.
 

Bastian

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It's been happening for so long with so many different coaches that it makes you wonder if its something wrong with Carrington itself. It's weird.
I’d honestly be surprised if we’ve had the same amount of muscle injuries (not speaking about Tuanzebe) in such a short space of time as we have under Ole. I mean, the Liverpool match last season was something else..
 

A-man

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It's been happening for so long with so many different coaches that it makes you wonder if its something wrong with Carrington itself. It's weird.
It is very weird. A 23 year old in so poor shape he gets badly injured during warmup. Someone needs to take some responsibility. Of course it could have been very bad luck but I refuse to accept bad luck as the reason for all injuries.
 

Yakuza_devils

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Liverpool players seem to never get injured and they almost play the same starting 11 week in week out for the entire season including European games.

Something is not right in man utd because we have been having injury crisis every season since forever!
 

MadDogg

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Liverpool players seem to never get injured and they almost play the same starting 11 week in week out for the entire season including European games.

Something is not right in man utd because we have been having injury crisis every season since forever!
From memory they did pick up quite a few injuries when Klopp first took over. It took 12-18 months for them to get used to the intensity that Klopp wanted them to play.

Whether we'll get over it is another question though. Other than 15/16 (the Smalling/Blind year) we've had an injury crisis in our defence every season since at least 06/07.
 

flappyjay

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What's the nature of his injury. Feels like he has also been out for such a long time. Rojo has pretty much put himself as the 3rd cb since.
 

Bastian

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What's the nature of his injury. Feels like he has also been out for such a long time. Rojo has pretty much put himself as the 3rd cb since.
Hip injury. Think Ole put him in the group he hopes will be ready after the International break.
 

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My fear is that he's injured too often. He has been injured a lot during his career and it continues. Injured in the warm-up ffs! One of our biggest talents though. With playing time he will truly flourish (if he can stay free of injuries).
 

A-man

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My fear is that he's injured too often. He has been injured a lot during his career and it continues. Injured in the warm-up ffs! One of our biggest talents though. With playing time he will truly flourish (if he can stay free of injuries).
Staying fit often beats talent because playing matches is what develops players. I also have the fear he will be another injury prone United CB. Now he is in a critical age where he needs to play and can not afford too many injuries.