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2020-21 Performances


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ivaldo

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Milenkovic is their best performing CB.

White is Brighton's 2nd best performing CB

We arent comparing Milenkovic with Dunk
No, but you're comparing Milenkovic and White on the basis of their team performance. You can't have it both ways.
 

AgentSmith

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Milenkovic is their best performing CB.

White is Brighton's 2nd best performing CB

We arent comparing Milenkovic with Dunk
Alright well you keep moving the goal posts so it’s difficult to follow your argument.

I was just showing the flawed logic in using Brighton’s league position and goals conceded as a stick to beat White when Fiorentina’s stats are, if anything, worse but you don’t do the same for the Milenkovic.

I don’t think Ben White would be a guaranteed upgrade on Lindelof but it’s impossible to say Milenkovic would be either.

The fact that it’s difficult to say definitively which CB option would actually knock Lindelof out of the team is probably a good argument for other positions being prioritised (CF, RW, CDM) before a central defender. The targets available in those positions would be guaranteed upgrades.
 

Ekeke

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Alright well you keep moving the goal posts so it’s difficult to follow your argument.

I was just showing the flawed logic in using Brighton’s league position and goals conceded as a stick to beat White when Fiorentina’s stats are, if anything, worse but you don’t do the same for the Milenkovic.

I don’t think Ben White would be a guaranteed upgrade on Lindelof but it’s impossible to say Milenkovic would be either.

The fact that it’s difficult to say definitively which CB option would actually knock Lindelof out of the team is probably a good argument for other positions being prioritised (CF, RW, CDM) before a central defender. The targets available in those positions would be guaranteed upgrades.
The argument is simple. Milenkovic is clearly ahead of White who hasnt enhanced his reputation this season.

We're talking about a CB who barely makes a clearance or wins an aerial duel with the idea that he's going to do better than a player who makes a lot more of both?

Lindelof is better at both of these things. White is a long term project

Comparison







I feel like if Tuanzebe had this happen to him we'd never hear the end of it on here


 
Last edited:

AgentSmith

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The argument is simple. Milenkovic is clearly ahead of White who hasnt enhanced his reputation this season.

We're talking about a CB who barely makes a clearance or wins an aerial duel with the idea that he's going to do better than a player who makes a lot more of both?

Lindelof is better at both of these things. White is a long term project

Comparison



Good statistical breakdown. I don’t know why you didn’t just say that initially rather than using a flawed argument like a team’s league position.

Milenkovic possesses a lot of the attributes that seem to make sense as a CB partner for Maguire, which I’ve said elsewhere.

My original point was just that Milenkovic will always carry a risk because he has to adapt to the Premier League, though he does seem to have the exact physical tools to do so.

And the timing of it was influenced by the press running with a story that day that we were interested in Ben White due to Maguire’s preference. So I thought the idea of using Tuanzebe to cheapen the deal made sense for both clubs. I doubt Fiorentina would be interested in a similar offer.
 

Ekeke

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Good statistical breakdown. I don’t know why you didn’t just say that initially rather than using a flawed argument like a team’s league position.

Milenkovic possesses a lot of the attributes that seem to make sense as a CB partner for Maguire, which I’ve said elsewhere.

My original point was just that Milenkovic will always carry a risk because he has to adapt to the Premier League, though he does seem to have the exact physical tools to do so.

And the timing of it was influenced by the press running with a story that day that we were interested in Ben White due to Maguire’s preference. So I thought the idea of using Tuanzebe to cheapen the deal made sense for both clubs. I doubt Fiorentina would be interested in a similar offer.
Fair points. I'm just dismayed that a player who is weaker in the areas Lindelof is generally considered to be weakest (in the air / basics of defending / clearing the ball out) was suggested

I think White can come good and be a quality CB in the future and is probably better at bringing the ball out of the back than Lindelof, who has been equal to if not better than Maguire at it this season. So I feel like he obviously has his qualities, but realistically he has his weaknesses that might see him play about as much as Tuanzebe with Ole keen on Lindelof.

Maybe Milenkovic isnt quite as good as I'm saying, but I do feel like he has the profile of a player who if we signed him he's more likely to go straight into the team having played at a top league level for a longer period and proven more. White had a huge rep after last season in the championship, but Tuanzebe had a really good season in the championship too.


If we had our 2nd starting CB already then signing someone like White who could be eased in and have his rough areas improved over time to eventually realize his potential would sound like a great idea.
 

AgentSmith

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Fair points. I'm just dismayed that a player who is weaker in the areas Lindelof is generally considered to be weakest (in the air / basics of defending / clearing the ball out) was suggested

I think White can come good and be a quality CB in the future and is probably better at bringing the ball out of the back than Lindelof, who has been equal to if not better than Maguire at it this season. So I feel like he obviously has his qualities, but realistically he has his weaknesses that might see him play about as much as Tuanzebe with Ole keen on Lindelof.

Maybe Milenkovic isnt quite as good as I'm saying, but I do feel like he has the profile of a player who if we signed him he's more likely to go straight into the team having played at a top league level for a longer period and proven more. White had a huge rep after last season in the championship, but Tuanzebe had a really good season in the championship too.


If we had our 2nd starting CB already then signing someone like White who could be eased in and have his rough areas improved over time to eventually realize his potential would sound like a great idea.
I think that’s a good assessment. Milenkovic definitely makes the most sense as an option given his profile as a player and the fact he’s going into the last year of his contract. Getting him on a cheap-ish deal should leave the bulk of the transfer budget for someone like Sancho as well.

He also seems to be the option with the most traction in the press so hopefully we can get the deal done nice and early so he gets maximum time to bed with the squad.

Tuanzebe’s future is less clear. A Premier League loan would be a good idea for his development but that would leave us with 4 CBs.
 

Bastian

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Step forth young man, Ole is forced to play you next Thursday.

I for one am delighted he'll get a game in his best position, from the start. Hopefully no back 5 with two DMs.
 

A-man

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Maybe I’m exaggerating, but Granada could be his last chance at United.
 

Van Piorsing

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Maybe I’m exaggerating, but Granada could be his last chance at United.
Depends if we can secure 2nd place earlier, but it kinda feels that way. We give chances to James and sooner or later he can also run out of chances.

As long as we don't have fit defense, he still got time to impress.
 

A-man

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Depends if we can secure 2nd place earlier, but it kinda feels that way. We give chances to James and sooner or later he can also run out of chances.

As long as we don't have fit defense, he still got time to impress.
The situation we are in now highlights how badly we need another CB. If Tuanzebe plays well against Granada and maybe a few more matches, that new CB might be someone who is more of a squad player. If Tuanzebe screws up, we will get a CB who fights for the starting XI, which puts Axel further down or he’ll be sold. Also depends on how it goes with Bailly and his contract of course.
 

Van Piorsing

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The situation we are in now highlights how badly we need another CB. If Tuanzebe plays well against Granada and maybe a few more matches, that new CB might be someone who is more of a squad player. If Tuanzebe screws up, we will get a CB who fights for the starting XI, which puts Axel further down or he’ll be sold. Also depends on how it goes with Bailly and his contract of course.
At this point Bailly for me is in a football limbo, with almost no point of return. Like you said, we badly need a CB, preferably fit and available for selection as Harry & Victor, no matter how promising signs will Axel show.

Good news is, the closer to end of the season, the more final answer will be given to us about every aspect of the team, including Ole himself.
 

CM10

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Maybe I’m exaggerating, but Granada could be his last chance at United.
It's not an unreasonable suggestion. Tuanzebe plays so few minutes that really he should be looking to move on in the summer for the good of his own career.

He hasn't been great the last couple of times he's played either so I don't think Solskjaer has much trust in him. Maybe knowing he will play a week in advance will give him some motivation to be ready for it, and in theory it's a game we should be seeing out with relative ease.
 

Poborsky's hair

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It's not an unreasonable suggestion. Tuanzebe plays so few minutes that really he should be looking to move on in the summer for the good of his own career.

He hasn't been great the last couple of times he's played either so I don't think Solskjaer has much trust in him. Maybe knowing he will play a week in advance will give him some motivation to be ready for it, and in theory it's a game we should be seeing out with relative ease.
I will stand by my opinion that if he played some 110 games Lindelof played for us he would be a cracking player who would learn from his mistakes and wouldn't do as many of them as Swede but obviously playing every 12th game in your position is always going to be difficult no matter how talented you are. Obviously if he wasn't made form glass would have been much easier for him too, that stole many chances from him to feature and Ole's insistence to play Lindelof into form from some shambolic mistakes game after game.

On the other hand I feel that Axel can come good after all but perhaps not with us. He needs to play elsewhere perhaps Villa would be interested and in the eed we could have some lever in Grealish transfer, along with Lingard and possibly Pogba money we could do it without losing another 40 million on a finally decent CB
 

CM10

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I will stand by my opinion that if he played some 110 games Lindelof played for us he would be a cracking player who would learn from his mistakes and wouldn't do as many of them as Swede but obviously playing every 12th game in your position is always going to be difficult no matter how talented you are. Obviously if he wasn't made form glass would have been much easier for him too, that stole many chances from him to feature and Ole's insistence to play Lindelof into form from some shambolic mistakes game after game.

On the other hand I feel that Axel can come good after all but perhaps not with us. He needs to play elsewhere perhaps Villa would be interested and in the eed we could have some lever in Grealish transfer, along with Lingard and possibly Pogba money we could do it without losing another 40 million on a finally decent CB
That's possibly true. Whenever I've heard him speak he always seems very mature for his age and has the traits of a leader but as you say regular games are important in the development of any young player.

Maybe a sale with a buyback option would make sense but I see little value in keeping him for another season where he's primarily watching from the stands.
 

A-man

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It's not an unreasonable suggestion. Tuanzebe plays so few minutes that really he should be looking to move on in the summer for the good of his own career.

He hasn't been great the last couple of times he's played either so I don't think Solskjaer has much trust in him. Maybe knowing he will play a week in advance will give him some motivation to be ready for it, and in theory it's a game we should be seeing out with relative ease.
I also feel that Ole has very little trust in him. Even undeservedly little trust. I haven’t been impressed with him but I find him a very likeable person and hope he can prove me wrong. It is also critical for United that he is succesful in the next game.

I will stand by my opinion that if he played some 110 games Lindelof played for us he would be a cracking player who would learn from his mistakes and wouldn't do as many of them as Swede but obviously playing every 12th game in your position is always going to be difficult no matter how talented you are. Obviously if he wasn't made form glass would have been much easier for him too, that stole many chances from him to feature and Ole's insistence to play Lindelof into form from some shambolic mistakes game after game.

On the other hand I feel that Axel can come good after all but perhaps not with us. He needs to play elsewhere perhaps Villa would be interested and in the eed we could have some lever in Grealish transfer, along with Lingard and possibly Pogba money we could do it without losing another 40 million on a finally decent CB
If he was allowed to play 110 games, it would be because he was a cracking player. However there is nothing indicating that he would turn in to something great unfortunately. He is very fast, but “compensates” that with poor anticipation. Agree he needs to move for his own career’s sake. He has missed years of development and he needs 30+ matches per season for several years to see if he can develop in to PL material.
 

Poborsky's hair

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I also feel that Ole has very little trust in him. Even undeservedly little trust. I haven’t been impressed with him but I find him a very likeable person and hope he can prove me wrong. It is also critical for United that he is succesful in the next game.


If he was allowed to play 110 games, it would be because he was a cracking player. However there is nothing indicating that he would turn in to something great unfortunately. He is very fast, but “compensates” that with poor anticipation. Agree he needs to move for his own career’s sake. He has missed years of development and he needs 30+ matches per season for several years to see if he can develop in to PL material.
He´s extremely INJURY PRONE which took him many chances to settle in the starting 11. He was unavailable for about 50% of games and in the rest Lindelof was given run, you can´t shuffle between so easily. Same with goalkeepers. This is not NHL. That and combination of few bad moments didn´t help him but trust me or not 110 games more under his belt he wouldn´t be less solid than Lindelof next to Maguire but we won´t see that at United shirt unfortunately it seems.
 

Sylar

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Maybe I’m exaggerating, but Granada could be his last chance at United.
I get what you mean

I think his last game (Sociedad?) He did really well and was unlucky not to have a goal

The unluckiest moment was when he had an awesome game vs psg away and went toe to toe with mbappe for pace and then didn't have any time to build on that. That was a mistake in my eyes
 

Grande

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I get what you mean

I think his last game (Sociedad?) He did really well and was unlucky not to have a goal

The unluckiest moment was when he had an awesome game vs psg away and went toe to toe with mbappe for pace and then didn't have any time to build on that. That was a mistake in my eyes
IfI remember it correctly, he had time to build on it, but unfortunately didn’t. He had a dismal game vs Basaksehir that effectively put us out of the CL against an inferior opponent.
 

Sylar

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IfI remember it correctly, he had time to build on it, but unfortunately didn’t. He had a dismal game vs Basaksehir that effectively put us out of the CL against an inferior opponent.
I mean there were three games that he missed after the PSG game.
PSG are one of the best in Europe so you would think following up against a premier League team wouldn't be that much of a problem or issue

we've seen it with many players that playing back to back to back can help build momentum
For that Istanbul match he had a complete different set of players around him

I don't think he had any chance of building momentum (I would understand if he got an injury)
 

Grande

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I mean there were three games that he missed after the PSG game.
PSG are one of the best in Europe so you would think following up against a premier League team wouldn't be that much of a problem or issue

we've seen it with many players that playing back to back to back can help build momentum
For that Istanbul match he had a complete different set of players around him

I don't think he had any chance of building momentum (I would understand if he got an injury)
You may be right about that, I thought he had more game time around then.
 

jackal&hyde

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IfI remember it correctly, he had time to build on it, but unfortunately didn’t. He had a dismal game vs Basaksehir that effectively put us out of the CL against an inferior opponent.
People like to pretend that didn't happen for some reason. Injuries and some bad performances are at risk to end his United career early if we buy a new young CD this summer.

I think he has it all tbh and some mistakes are expected from such a young defender but, the standard is very high when the team is getting to a place for competing for titles and trophies there is little time for patience with defenders.
 

A-man

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He´s extremely INJURY PRONE which took him many chances to settle in the starting 11. He was unavailable for about 50% of games and in the rest Lindelof was given run, you can´t shuffle between so easily. Same with goalkeepers. This is not NHL. That and combination of few bad moments didn´t help him but trust me or not 110 games more under his belt he wouldn´t be less solid than Lindelof next to Maguire but we won´t see that at United shirt unfortunately it seems.
Our defence is one of the absolute best in the PL at the moment, it is very speculative to say it would be better if Tuanzebe had played 110 matches. Especially since Tuanzebe hasn't even started more than 2 PL matches as CB in his entire career. How could we even speculate from this super small amount of matches?

I get what you mean

I think his last game (Sociedad?) He did really well and was unlucky not to have a goal

The unluckiest moment was when he had an awesome game vs psg away and went toe to toe with mbappe for pace and then didn't have any time to build on that. That was a mistake in my eyes
It's true, he was quite good vs Real Sociedad.
I wouldn't call it a mistake to not let him build on the PSG performance. Many players were good in that match and it doesn't make sense to bench first XI players after they played well against PSG to make room for Tuanzebe. He got a chance against Istanbul 2 weeks later.
 

georgipep

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I mean there were three games that he missed after the PSG game.
PSG are one of the best in Europe so you would think following up against a premier League team wouldn't be that much of a problem or issue

we've seen it with many players that playing back to back to back can help build momentum
For that Istanbul match he had a complete different set of players around him

I don't think he had any chance of building momentum (I would understand if he got an injury)
Maybe he could've had more chances in domestic competitions (I wouldn't give him game time in the league because it is the most important competition for us until we have mathematically secured CL qualification) but the bolded part is no excuse. If Bailly, Lindelof or Maguire play with a different set of players are they excused for blunders and poor games? It is a risk for all players on the pitch that they will not perform as well as they could due to lack of cohesion between the 11 players going out together but that is what bench players need to do to impress and give the manager something to seriously think about. He was used against Mbappe for his speed. He did the job very well. But he was and still is far inferior to both Lindelof and Maguire in every aspect except speed.
 

A-man

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I mean there were three games that he missed after the PSG game.
PSG are one of the best in Europe so you would think following up against a premier League team wouldn't be that much of a problem or issue

we've seen it with many players that playing back to back to back can help build momentum
For that Istanbul match he had a complete different set of players around him

I don't think he had any chance of building momentum (I would understand if he got an injury)
The main difference between PSG and Istanbul when it comes to Tuanzebe was that against PSG he had a small task in a well organised defensive set up. His task was simple, in the meaning there were no difficult decisions to be made and he could focus on his task. He executed his task with excellence, but it was still not a complex task.

Against Istanbul, he was basically patrolling the whole defensive line himself. Many people think anybody with speed could do that, but in reality it demands a lot from a CB, even against a weaker team. He must all the time make decisions when to push forward and when to cover for others. If he fails one decision there is a deadly counter. It’s a much more complex task and he was not ready for it.
 

arthurka

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He needs a move this summer, he will never get his chance here and really needs to play regularly to take the next step.
 

Escobar

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He needs a move this summer, he will never get his chance here and really needs to play regularly to take the next step.
This is really a strange one to me. When he broke through, I thought he was a fantastic talent with potential for a first team spot. Nowadays, he's just on the bench and when he plays, mediocre at best
 

AltiUn

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This is really a strange one to me. When he broke through, I thought he was a fantastic talent with potential for a first team spot. Nowadays, he's just on the bench and when he plays, mediocre at best
His confidence is ruined, can't say I'm surprised, his performances haven't been great which is understandable due to injuries and a lack of match rythym but to then be racially abused by his own fans, at this point it's best for his own career if he decides to move on.
 

Alemar

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Nowadays, he's just on the bench and when he plays, mediocre at best
But how could it be any different? The only way for him to improve is to play on a regular basis. He does not - hence no significant improvements, and no reasons to expect those in the future.

As such, it would be better for him to move over the summer.
 
Man Utd 2:0 Granada New

A-man

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Exactly what he needed. Not tested to the max, but did well. It would be nice if he could be a bit more adventurous on the ball, but I can understand if he doesn’t want to screw up when he gets so few chances. 7/10
 

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Decent performance. One good block in the 2nd half. Struggled to win aerial challenges.
He won most of his headed challenges, the first one he tried to win had Soldado backing him to him, Kane like. Can't remember a pass he misplaced, the ones through the lines were at a good pace.
Very good performance, but would like him to get some Prem minutes against much tougher opponents.
 

Grande

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Decent performance. One good block in the 2nd half. Struggled to win aerial challenges.
Exactly what he needed. Not tested to the max, but did well. It would be nice if he could be a bit more adventurous on the ball, but I can understand if he doesn’t want to screw up when he gets so few chances. 7/10
Agree with this. I would give him 7,5. he won the aerials he were involved in as far as I saw. Granada played tough and unfair, but they were not monsters. He has to build on this. Also was constructive with the ball. Fine way to soothe his nerves after Demba Baz
 

A-man

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Agree with this. I would give him 7,5. he won the aerials he were involved in as far as I saw. Granada played tough and unfair, but they were not monsters. He has to build on this. Also was constructive with the ball. Fine way to soothe his nerves after Demba Baz
Yes he did well. Some have claimed he plays better together with Lindelof, and maybe he does.

However doubt there will be any chances for him to build on this at the rest of this season. Starting one more game or a few subs maybe, but not starting consecutive games. I think Maguire is one yellow away from suspension in the PL and Lindelof one away in the EL.