Ayden Heaven | 2024/25 Performances

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Good news, was really concerned when he went off.
 
Van Piorsing said:
Amazing we've managed to find someone just as talented as Yoro in space of just months.

Lad is magnificent. Good performances almost a norm already, despite pressure of the most difficult league.
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Heaven has done well and he seems to have got the right tools in the toolbox. However let's take one game at a time and let's not get carried away. Recent events had shown that it doesn't help overhyping teenangers
 
devilish said:
Heaven has done well and he seems to have got the right tools in the toolbox. However let's take one game at a time and let's not get carried away. Recent events had shown that it doesn't help overhyping teenangers
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When teenagers are doing better than senior players, then it's not overhyping for me.

Who do you want me to hype... Mount ? Maguire ? Onana ? Phil Jones ?
 
Van Piorsing said:
When teenagers are doing better than senior players, then it's not overhyping for me.

Who do you want me to hype... Mount ? Maguire ? Onana ? Phil Jones ?
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Is he really doing better than senior players though? Is he better then De Ligt or Martinez (when he's not injured)? Or are you letting the 'age' bias taking over your better judgement?


I tend to follow two leagues (Italy and England) and the approach to football couldn't be more different.

In Italy praise is always kept to the minimum. Players are simply expected to perform ie its their job to be consistently good. Teenagers tend to be sent on loan elsewhere and only absolute beasts (technically and in terms of maturity) like Maldini and Buffon could hold a regular first team place at a top club. Meanwhile criticism is always waiting at the door. Even top tier players like Batistuta and Cannavaro were criticized in their prime let alone the common joe. The praise floodgates tend to only open wide once a player retires or is close to retire. Once that happens than the player becomes a legend and no one would doubt his talent or contribution to the team. I've yet to see an Italian doubting Baggio's talent in the way Paul Scholes faces at a regular basis or someone minimizing Gattuso's contribution to the team as its constantly being done with Gary Neville.

In England there's this hype-bust cycle which I find incredibly counterproductive. Talent is hyped almost immediately with absolute ridiculous nicks attached to them such as the white pele etc. Then once he fecks up then all hell goes loose on him with utter no respect towards the player, his talent, his contribution to the squad or even him as a human being. I'm old enough to remember what happened to David Beckham after that incident. If I was him I would have retired from the national team there and then.

Some people seem to forget that


a- players tend to be young people usually from a poor background. Its already difficult for someone like that to come to terms with becoming a millionaire and extremely popular almost overnight. The last thing he wants to hear is the media and the fans hyping him to the ridiculous.

b- talent alone is often not enough. Even as a first teamer, a kid need years to develop certain aspects of his game. If he fails to do that then he won't be able to adapt to different styles of football or/and be able to adapt when age start taking away some from his tools from his toolbox.

c- we tend to consider 25 year old players as relatively mature. There again we've been 25 years old ourselves and we did occasionally screw things up at that age despite having far less resources at our disposal then these players do.

I find the Italian way as a bit too tough but fairer towards players. Players learn early on and are constantly reminded that this is a ruthless business built around high performance. If you snooze you lose. I don't see that being stressed out enough in the EPL.
 
devilish said:
Is he really doing better than senior players though? Is he better then De Ligt or Martinez (when he's not injured)? Or are you letting the 'age' bias taking over your better judgement?


I tend to follow two leagues (Italy and England) and the approach to football couldn't be more different.

In Italy praise is always kept to the minimum. Players are simply expected to perform ie its their job to be consistently good. Teenagers tend to be sent on loan elsewhere and only absolute beasts (technically and in terms of maturity) like Maldini and Buffon could hold a regular first team place at a top club. Meanwhile criticism is always waiting at the door. Even top tier players like Batistuta and Cannavaro were criticized in their prime let alone the common joe. The praise floodgates tend to only open wide once a player retires or is close to retire. Once that happens than the player becomes a legend and no one would doubt his talent or contribution to the team. I've yet to see an Italian doubting Baggio's talent in the way Paul Scholes faces at a regular basis or someone minimizing Gattuso's contribution to the team as its constantly being done with Gary Neville.

In England there's this hype-bust cycle which I find incredibly counterproductive. Talent is hyped almost immediately with absolute ridiculous nicks attached to them such as the white pele etc. Then once he fecks up then all hell goes loose on him with utter no respect towards the player, his talent, his contribution to the squad or even him as a human being. I'm old enough to remember what happened to David Beckham after that incident. If I was him I would have retired from the national team there and then.

Some people seem to forget that


a- players tend to be young people usually from a poor background. Its already difficult for someone like that to come to terms with becoming a millionaire and extremely popular almost overnight. The last thing he wants to hear is the media and the fans hyping him to the ridiculous.

b- talent alone is often not enough. Even as a first teamer, a kid need years to develop certain aspects of his game. If he fails to do that then he won't be able to adapt to different styles of football or/and be able to adapt when age start taking away some from his tools from his toolbox.

c- we tend to consider 25 year old players as relatively mature. There again we've been 25 years old ourselves and we did occasionally screw things up at that age despite having far less resources at our disposal then these players do.

I find the Italian way as a bit too tough but fairer towards players. Players learn early on and are constantly reminded that this is a ruthless business built around high performance. If you snooze you lose. I don't see that being stressed out enough in the EPL.
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No use for Martinez if he'll keep getting injured. Yoro - De Ligt - Heaven realistically is not only optimal squad option, it's a thing for future.

Let's not be omitting important factor, which is also one of main reasons for me to watch these games and be remotely excited. Lindelof & Maguire didn't work. Martinez & Varane didn't work, while looking great on paper. Time for something else, and not every youngster is set to share Rashford's fate.

People want me to be positive with the senior players ? Sorry, I'm not that of a masochist. If Heaven fails then it's still far more productive & exciting, than torturing everyone with these freeloaders giving nothing to the club, while taking obscene amounts.

I'll take overhyped Heaven and big him up even more, over waiting on Mount to give me something, based on a 'trust me bro' argument, because he was great in 2022.

If we really had more realiable squad options, then I would change the tune, but this season is very different, and ironically, the senior players are the ones, crumbling under pressure, watching their egos being crushed... by a feckin Crystal Palace.
 
Are we going to have a problem when Yoro is fit since both of them like to play on the left?
 
Blood Mage said:
Are we going to have a problem when Yoro is fit since both of them like to play on the left?
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I doubt unless injuries hit us hard they will play in the same side this season.

Yoro can play on the right in the future. I don't think his box defending is there yet for the centre slot.
 
Drainy said:
I doubt unless injuries hit us hard they will play in the same side this season.

Yoro can play on the right in the future. I don't think his box defending is there yet for the centre slot.
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Yoro on the right should make sense but he looked pretty rubbish until he made the move to the left side.
 
Did Amorim imply Heaven's performance has affected transfer plans i.e minimized the need to bring in another center back just yet. If so good it's the least of our problems.
 
Trex said:
Did Amorim imply Heaven's performance has affected transfer plans i.e minimized the need to bring in another center back just yet. If so good it's the least of our problems.
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He did. Hopefully means we can invest properly in the front 8. Quality over quantity.
 
FrankWhite said:
He did. Hopefully means we can invest properly in the front 8. Quality over quantity.
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Yoro, De Ligt, Maguire, Heaven, Maz as options probably isn't enough.

It's hard to be reliant on the likes of Shaw and Martinez due to injuries. I still expect we'd need at least one more CB regardless
 
Don’t think there’s enough time for him to gain enough game-time to start against Spurs unfortunately.

Despite his inexperience and his young age, I’d want him to start as our LCB if everyone is fit. Looks like a hell of a talent.

Best we can hope for is a cameo against Chelsea, and is there as a bench option to bring on if we need more ball carrying in the second half vs Spurs.

If we had a couple of games before Spurs, I’d back Amorim to start him.
 
Fantastic news. I feared the worse when he went down vs Leicester. Even if the Spurs game comes too soon for him to start, I'm confident he'll be a regular starter next season.
 
Not sure how much he'll participate over next 2 games but hopefully Heaven is to start vs Villa so we see more of him before next season.

RCB: Mazraoui, Yoro (+ potentially Dalot)
CCB: De Ligt, Maguire
LCB: Martinez, Yoro, Heaven, Shaw*

*obviously can't actually count on him given injury record

We could have great set of options at the back next season. Probably doesn't make too much sense but I'd keep Evans for another season as well at low wages - because of homegrown quota and as he's still a decent option. But that's only if we do qualify for CL and play plenty of games next season.
 
BorisManUtd said:
Not sure how much he'll participate over next 2 games but hopefully Heaven is to start vs Villa so we see more of him before next season.

RCB: Mazraoui, Yoro (+ potentially Dalot)
CCB: De Ligt, Maguire
LCB: Martinez, Yoro, Heaven, Shaw*

*obviously can't actually count on him given injury record

We could have great set of options at the back next season. Probably doesn't make too much sense but I'd keep Evans for another season as well at low wages - because of homegrown quota and as he's still a decent option. But that's only if we do qualify for CL and play plenty of games next season.
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I think Evans will retire at the end of this season.
 
Diallo, Heaven and Yoro back with Mount, Casemiro and Maguire looking less shit. Hopefully we can get it done on Wednesday as we needed this boost
 
It would nice to see Heaven involved in the Europa final if Yoro and others aren't back in time but I feel like Amorim will be quite cautious with him and somebody like Lindelof would be more likely to start.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
Great news, he's been as bright as Yoro since joining.
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He's been good but this is a bit over the top. He has only played a handful of games as a first team player. Yoro has played over a hundred games and is generally seen as one of the top CB talents.

I like Heaven but he has a lot to prove to be compared to Yoro imo.
 
Very good news and he looks incredibly promising, but I think his absence has led to an increase in his reputation that reality might not be able to keep up with at this point., not saying he won't be a top player, but I am not sure he should be thrown into starting in the Europa League final, he only had a couple appearances before injury. Hopefully Yoro is back and if not, as much as I don't personally like him, I think Shaw has to play at LCB.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
Great news, he's been as bright as Yoro since joining.
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Hes played 186 mins or just over 2 games for us

he was okay and then had a fantastic 51 mins/half a game till he got injured. Its very little and like we've seen from Fredricson its not that strange for a youngster to have a good game and then the next game find it very hard.

Yoro has played a lot more games and harder ones as well. Heaven's good performance was against a relegation team...

Yoro has had higher highs and much lower lows than a single very good half a game. Hes doing better now after being poor in the first half of the season
 
I think he's more suited to the league and the back three demands compared to Martinez. Has demonstrated some good qualities in defence, don't think he's been as good as Yoro given Lenny's accumulation of games but it feels like both players have a high ceiling.
 
Great news that he's back in the squad. I don't have much expectation on him to play much part for the rest of the season, but if it means he can help keep Mazraoui to just 60 minutes against Chelsea, then I'm all for it.
 
Chelsea 1:0 Man Utd
Nasty foul at the end, lucky it wasnt more than a yellow. Studs forwards challenge and didnt even get the ball, just the leg of the opponent. Hope he learns from it
 
Ekeke said:
Nasty foul at the end, lucky it wasnt more than a yellow. Studs forwards challenge and didnt even get the ball, just the leg of the opponent. Hope he learns from it
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TBF he got the ball and man, while gusto equally jumped in but with both legs up and studs up and missed the ball completely.
 
Ekeke said:
Nasty foul at the end, lucky it wasnt more than a yellow. Studs forwards challenge and didnt even get the ball, just the leg of the opponent. Hope he learns from it
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he did get the ball it looked like, and both players were lunging in. If anything heaven is the only one i thought that actually got the ball. No idea why the player without the ball is allowed to lunge in so much but the one who has "lost" the ball is always the one penalized for lunging in, even when they get the ball first and have the "roll" over the ball situation.
 
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