It doesn't help the amount of unforced changes he's making in the back line. Letting players get familiar with their role would help consistency.
26
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 12
- Clean sheets
- 2
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 1
Yep.Yet the fanbase keep wanting to add more kids into the mix. Tonight is what happens (defensively) when there's not enough experience in key positions.
Heaven (19yo) was naive on more than one occasion tonight, so too was Yoro (20yo). Add to that Kobe (20yo) who comes on and does well offensively, but where was he when he should have been filling the gap in front of the back 3?
MDL and Harry are huge misses currently.
And we still have to play Dalot
Thrown in the deep end and exposed a bit. It's rotten luck that we are missing Maguire and De Ligt at the same time. A player like Heaven would preferably play some EL and Cup games to develop. Still think he is pretty talented. Same as Yoro - they need more experienced heads around them.
He's looking really promising in many aspects of the game, but there's just key moments where he's just not quite there yet. It doesn't help with having such a makeshift CB three, featuring a slow and short Luke Shaw and another kid. We urgently need Maguire and De Ligt back to help guide these guys through games and to lead that back line.
Impressed me more last season as a LCB where he there is more emphasis on ball playing rather than directing the back line. Understandable, think he's got the talent to do well here long term
Yet the fanbase keep wanting to add more kids into the mix. Tonight is what happens (defensively) when there's not enough experience in key positions.
Heaven (19yo) was naive on more than one occasion tonight, so too was Yoro (20yo). Add to that Kobe (20yo) who comes on and does well offensively, but where was he when he should have been filling the gap in front of the back 3?
MDL and Harry are huge misses currently.
And we still have to play Dalot
Definitely at the back and the spine of the team, you don't really want young lads there.
Really nobody under 23 should be featuring at CB for us.
Heaven and Yoro are really promising but we're at least 5 years away from them getting to their prime years. It's too long to wait.
I like the lad but he’s nowhere near ready, especially to play central pivot CB, crazy decision by Amorim in last two games and he’s been hung out to dry.
In the same way we went to pick up Mbeumo and Cunha from middle PL teams and taking their best players, it’s time to do the same in defence and midfield.
If we are seriously going to indulge this coach and allow him to learn on the job which is basically what he’s been doing in the EPL for the last 12 months. Then we need to be ruthless.
Aiden Heaven should be 7th choice CB and work his way up over the next couple of years, Lenny Yoro should be 4th or 5th.
MDL should be 2nd, a fit Martinez 3rd, Harry Maguire 4th and Shaw/Mazroui putting them under pressure however we need a number 1 CB whose quick, physical and read the game, we need to spend £60-70m to get an absolute beast
The fact that we’ve kept 8 clean sheets in his 59 matches that he’s overseen is a reason enough to sack him before the next game. However conceding 26 PL goals in 16 matches this season after his awful period last year should be the reason to sack him if that defence doesn’t improve quickly.
Last year under Ruben his United team conceded in 27 PL matches an average of 1.55 goals per match, this season he’s actually made the team worse defensively with 26 goals conceded from 16 PL matches at 1.63 goals!
In the same way we went to pick up Mbeumo and Cunha from middle PL teams and taking their best players, it’s time to do the same in defence and midfield.
If we are seriously going to indulge this coach and allow him to learn on the job which is basically what he’s been doing in the EPL for the last 12 months. Then we need to be ruthless.
Aiden Heaven should be 7th choice CB and work his way up over the next couple of years, Lenny Yoro should be 4th or 5th.
MDL should be 2nd, a fit Martinez 3rd, Harry Maguire 4th and Shaw/Mazroui putting them under pressure however we need a number 1 CB whose quick, physical and read the game, we need to spend £60-70m to get an absolute beast
The fact that we’ve kept 8 clean sheets in his 59 matches that he’s overseen is a reason enough to sack him before the next game. However conceding 26 PL goals in 16 matches this season after his awful period last year should be the reason to sack him if that defence doesn’t improve quickly.
Last year under Ruben his United team conceded in 27 PL matches an average of 1.55 goals per match, this season he’s actually made the team worse defensively with 26 goals conceded from 16 PL matches at 1.63 goals!
Yeah with Maguire or De Ligt in for him we probably win that game last night. He'll develop from experiences like that, but his development will also cost us some points.
He’s been throwing at the deep end. But in Amorim’s system, with Maguire and De Ligt out, and Martinez not ready to start - it’s not as if he had much choice!
The issue was that we had two inexperienced CBs alongside a converted left back, and also Dalot playing on the left. So little experience in there.
I'm very surprised at the amount of criticism he's getting. I actually thought he was quite good for most of the game. Obviously a huge mistake for the first goal and a couple of other shaky moments, but overall I liked what I saw. Second goal was much more on Yoro as Heaven was covering another man (although Heaven should have shown more urgency to get back once he saw that Yoro hadn't come over to the more dangerous player). Third goal I do dislike how far the defenders backed off but it's something that all our defenders always do (5 minutes later a similar situation happened and Heaven actually held his ground and won the ball). Fourth goal was more on Martinez.
Basically in both the second and fourth goals we had the right amount of defenders to cover the attackers, Heaven moved across to cover an open attacker (as he probably should be doing in both situations) but the wider CB didn't read it and left the last attacker with much too much space. As far as I'm concerned in both situations Heaven did what we want our defenders to be doing in this system but he was then let down by the other defender. Yoro in particular saw the open attacker and had all the time in the world to cover him, but decided to turn his back and cover the wide area (where there was no attacking player).
Basically in both the second and fourth goals we had the right amount of defenders to cover the attackers, Heaven moved across to cover an open attacker (as he probably should be doing in both situations) but the wider CB didn't read it and left the last attacker with much too much space. As far as I'm concerned in both situations Heaven did what we want our defenders to be doing in this system but he was then let down by the other defender. Yoro in particular saw the open attacker and had all the time in the world to cover him, but decided to turn his back and cover the wide area (where there was no attacking player).
Could he be used as a DM in Casemiro's absence?
Not to the same extent. Yoro wasn't great defensively, and neither was Martinez when he came on, but Heaven made more and worse mistakes than the others.
Maybe I'm being biased, as I rate Heaven very highly, but every single CB made a glaring error for the Bournemouth goals. I think Yoro got extremely lucky with in the way he switched off a couple of times too. I think Heaven actually offered more going forward and bringing the ball out from the back than the others. Shaw and Yoro were LB and RB at points, which says something.
You've nailed it with the first 4 words. I get it, and I rate Heaven very highly too, but the first goal was genuinely Sunday league level defending from him. The second saw failings from both him and Yoro, and the fourth saw failings from both him and Martinez, but Heaven making a hash of things was a common theme across the Bournemouth goals.
It's a fair cop, can't argue he wasn't the common theme.
Correct. Who else was RA supposed to put back there? I don't blame Heaven or Yoro in reality--- they were put in a difficult position to succeed. It's not like they had the opportunity to slot in defense beside Rio, Stam, Bruce orVidic which would have made it a thousand times easier for them. Just 2 inexperienced guys playing together is a tough situation to be in (especially with no legs in midfield in front of them.)
Again, it shows the lack of depth in the squad. Thanks ETH. I mean I agree with the above poster that United need a true #1 CB. United do not have depth really anywhere, and we can see what happens when United get injuries. Going to be fun with Casemiro out next week along with Mbuemo and Amad. (And possibly be without MDL and Maguire.) Looking forward to people having a meltdown if we lose to Villa with a ridiculously poor lineup next week.
He'll learn from it hopefully, and it'll hold him in good stead in the future if he does. It's just a shame they all had to come in one game.
You spend £200m on a new attacking trident and then remove players like Rashford, Hojlund, Sancho and Garnacho were not left in situ like Liverpool left Gatkpo, Salah and Chiesa to allow the new recruits to flourish and yet between all three they have only 10PL goals combined from our 30 PL goals scored.
I would guess that Amorim ball is benefitting from one game a week and most of his wins this season have come against newly promoted teams, bottom of the league teams or teams in European competition who were tired after a midweek game; Chelsea, Liverpool, Palace?
Disingenuous is genuinely believing this coach is anything other than a ‘Gaslighting Chancer’ who has convinced a significant part of the fan base to accept that getting Two Points from three home matches against Everton, West Ham and Bournemouth is acceptable for a club like Man United when our current PL head coach has won 14 PL matches from 43 PL matches,, that’s a 32.5% Win rate and the worst of any Manager this century and probably most of last century too!
No Coach at Man United with a win percentage of less than 50%, let alone less than 35% should keep their job after managing 40 PL matches or more!
It’s called standards and Amorim is gaslighting any Fan who will listen to continue to stink the place out!
Just need to get used to playing against better and more experienced attackers. The quality is there I feel, and he will learn from this but the difference between youth level and senior football is massive for a defender.
You don't really see top CB's at a young age like you do with other positions and I feel it's because they had to adapt to strikers who don't even need to take a touch and can get a dangerous shot away.
Sometimes in the youth level, you'd be happy to jockey them and give them a bit of room as it would take something special to beat the keeper with a shot, but at the top level the strikers can do that and you get punished.
You don't really see top CB's at a young age like you do with other positions and I feel it's because they had to adapt to strikers who don't even need to take a touch and can get a dangerous shot away.
Sometimes in the youth level, you'd be happy to jockey them and give them a bit of room as it would take something special to beat the keeper with a shot, but at the top level the strikers can do that and you get punished.
From what I've read about him, he definitely does a lot of extra work on trying to learn and improve - probably why the coach rates him. Fingers crossed anyway.
He is a good prospect but having him and yoro alongside each other at the moment will cost us. It does seem like the sort of scenario that would warrant a switch to two centre backs and three in midfield
Spend big on a proven player, a beast of a CB to play alongside him and show him the ropes gradually. Heaven, like Yoro, would benefit greatly from a proven, consistent defender next to him. Mixing and matching with oft-injured players such as Maguire, de Ligt, Martinez or Shaw is not the consistency these young players need. The keeper is also new, young and learning all about life in the PL, he would also benefit from a much improved commanding CB. It should be made one of the top priorities for improving the starting XI, immediately.
I think you make some good points but what I'm going to focus on is your second paragraph and in particular the 2nd and 4th goals we conceded. Both of those goals came about due to the midfield being unable to manage the space centrally. We gave Bournemouth way too much space and time in those half spaces centrally which exposed the central defenders horribly.
Of course Yoro could've done better but imo, Yoro instinctively went to cover the wide area, because the role of the CBs when attempting to play a more proactive and open game, is to deal with the wide space whilst the midfield has to lock up the half spaces centrally. And our midfied was missing in action and allowed the opposition far too much time and space, which in-turn exposed those half spaces in-front of the CBs. And you just cannot allow that to happen in midfield. And alot of that is down to our midfield options not having the ability to eat up ground quickly as far as the pace and power aspect is concerned when attempting to play in a higher risk approach where you will have to manage space both in the CB positions as well as the midfield positions where the wide spaces (CBs) and the half spaces (midfield) have to be defended as a collective unit. For the fourth goal, Amad was the one who came closest to stopping the vulnerability in the half space with the midfield nowhere to be seen.
I have no issues with Heaven and Yoro. I think they did well to push up and compress the pitch. And that allowed us to press high better and it brought quite a bit of joy in the first 25 mins where we won the ball in the opposition half quite often. But when your midfield cannot manage space, then it will expose the CBs and in this case even more than normal due to the inexperience of both Heaven and Yoro.
Aston Villa 2:1 Man Utd
New
He was good today. He’s gonna be a player
I like him
Huge potential on and off the ball. Watkins didn’t have a sniff.
Very composed for a teenager, pocketed Watkins. Has all the tools to grow into a very good player.
Thought he was solid today. Much better than Yoro.
His anticipation is top notch. Excellent performance.
Yes.
I thought he was very good first half but poor in the second half. His anticipation for the second goal might have been better?
Good on the ball and looks a prospect.
Good on the ball and looks a prospect.
Made Watkins completely anonymous today, i was actually impressed. Good response after the Bournemouth game, he's going to become a phenomenal CB. He's got all the tools, experience will come with time.
Much better today. Well done to him..
He really impressed me today. His bounce back from a shocking last outing is great to see. Very comfortable on the ball, surprisingly strong in the air, calm and assured and athletic. Not blistering pace, but more than fast enough?
Excellent today
Good player, hope it continues. He looks better than Yoro for sure
The lad is adapting really well in the CCB role. Has shown more initiative going forward than Shaw at times.
Looks excellent on the ball and generally defended well but thought he was weak on the second goal, but wasn't the only one
Showing some good potential in that central role. I think his athleticism and composure is a good asset there. One of my common complaints of his was a lack of urgency and willingness to close down space and block shots/crosses.
Against Bournemouth he showed that youthful naivety for Semenyo's goal but in the first half today, he did well against Watkins and that follow up block after Lammen's save. However, he was a bit passive for Roger's second goal although there was a couple of players way more directly at fault. For a 19 year old, this is just something we'll have to learn to accept but overall a quietly impressive game.
Against Bournemouth he showed that youthful naivety for Semenyo's goal but in the first half today, he did well against Watkins and that follow up block after Lammen's save. However, he was a bit passive for Roger's second goal although there was a couple of players way more directly at fault. For a 19 year old, this is just something we'll have to learn to accept but overall a quietly impressive game.