Some of the comments here are laughable. Who knows how Heaven will develop but I never read anything like this after Yoro’s many mishaps last season. Heaven has been pretty much flawless in every game he played in, his first professional season too where he was thrown in the deep end in February/March too. Yoro, whilst obviously a top talent is having his defensive performances overrated because he carries the ball well
26
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 12
- Clean sheets
- 2
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 1
-
In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Imran (@Annihilate Now!) & Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to discuss disappointed FA Cup exit at the hands of Brighton - confirming our shortest season in over 100 years. They also discuss the news that Michael Carrick is set to be United's manager until the end of the season.
It was not Aydens fault that we conceded, as it was the job of the CCB to press Bowen where the other CBs then form a back 2
Ayden should have followed Bowen when he made the run behind him. That allows De Ligt to control the centre as he's going back.
If Ayden tracks Bowen and puts pressure on him, he doesn't allow him into that shooting channel as quickly. By that time Dorgu also gets back and the attack can be stifled.
But we have to excuse those momentary lapses in concentration because he's still a young defender learning his trade.
I think in the situation we were in for that goal the gap between the midfield was huge and De Ligt probably should have stepped up to fill it and stopped that counter attack. But most centre backs are reluctant to ever venture that far upfield. Which is why this system with our current midfielders is worrying when we're in a high press because it leaves a LOT of space to exploit in the midfield on the counter.
If Ayden tracks Bowen and puts pressure on him, he doesn't allow him into that shooting channel as quickly. By that time Dorgu also gets back and the attack can be stifled.
But we have to excuse those momentary lapses in concentration because he's still a young defender learning his trade.
I think in the situation we were in for that goal the gap between the midfield was huge and De Ligt probably should have stepped up to fill it and stopped that counter attack. But most centre backs are reluctant to ever venture that far upfield. Which is why this system with our current midfielders is worrying when we're in a high press because it leaves a LOT of space to exploit in the midfield on the counter.
Last edited:
There are multiple players are fault, mainly the CM's Bruno and Mainoo, but also De Ligt and Ayden. Ayden looked really slow.
Bruno was playing as a 10. So I don't think he's at fault for that goal.
Mainoo and Ugarte were both pressing very high up the field and left a gap in the midfield which West Ham exploited.
One can argue that in that situation one of our CB's should have pushed upfield and in effect become a defensive midfielder -- but that didn't happen.
Poor guy, Bowen got the better of him twice in a pre-season friendly and now his career is over. Thanks for the memories Heaven 
Joking aside I think a back 3 of Heaven-DeLigt-Yoro has a lot of promise. I’d give them the first 10 games of the season to establish themselves tbh.
This season is all about development, so I don’t want to see Maguire/Shaw starting to many games.
Joking aside I think a back 3 of Heaven-DeLigt-Yoro has a lot of promise. I’d give them the first 10 games of the season to establish themselves tbh.
This season is all about development, so I don’t want to see Maguire/Shaw starting to many games.
Yes there have been a lot of excitement based on very few minutes. Probably because us fans are trying to find every positive thing there is after a miserable season
I think there were some very positive signs. I liked that he seemed cool on the ball. However in the end a CB are evaluated differently than all the players, as they are not evaluated so much for their good things, but for the mistakes they make.
18 and already very good, he'll be a top player like Yoro will. He will make mistakes but patience is especially important when it comes to young CBs as they enter their peak years later than midfielders and attackers do.
That's all true but that doesn't mean Ayden wasn't also to blame and very slow.
When I watch Heaven and Chido play, it makes me wonder - what would the mood be here if we had lost those 2 players to Arsenal ?
https://www.skysports.com/football/...wn-barcelona-offer-after-old-trafford-next-up
Good piece on Heaven and him choosing to move to United.
Few snippets below;
Thought he was good today. Looks like injury is nothing serious. Top prospect.
Good piece on Heaven and him choosing to move to United.
Few snippets below;
Thought he was good today. Looks like injury is nothing serious. Top prospect.
I really like him. Calm on the ball and has good physic attributes. Hope he stays fit and kicks on
Kid looks built. He won’t be getting bullied off many balls if any. Could grow to be an enforcer type perhaps.
Apart from one bad pass in 2nd half I thought he was good today.
His body does seem very fragile though at the moment, he seems to get subbed off with an injury every time he starts a game.
Interesting he started, I thought Amorim was leaning towards Shaw at LCB but today's line up suggests Heaven could get the nod next weekend.
His body does seem very fragile though at the moment, he seems to get subbed off with an injury every time he starts a game.
Interesting he started, I thought Amorim was leaning towards Shaw at LCB but today's line up suggests Heaven could get the nod next weekend.
He does have a few loose passes in him and I worry about his concentration over 90 mins but until Martinez gets fit/recovers 100% (big if there), I'd have him over Shaw at LCB to give him the game time to develop.
Yoro looks a bit awkward out there at RCB with his passing and he's getting boxed in due our terrible movement and off the ball options. Heaven, however, is standing on the ball, feinting and drawing the opponents in trying to create angles and is successfully passing it forward or in between the lines. I have given up on Shaw, who is far too passive and a net negative for me despite his obvious qualities.
Yoro looks a bit awkward out there at RCB with his passing and he's getting boxed in due our terrible movement and off the ball options. Heaven, however, is standing on the ball, feinting and drawing the opponents in trying to create angles and is successfully passing it forward or in between the lines. I have given up on Shaw, who is far too passive and a net negative for me despite his obvious qualities.
It's good for him that we've got tonnes of time on the training pitch. Pretty raw today and against Everton. Not too worried that he can't up his passing and reading of the game, it's how he seems to be a bit fragile / injury prone.
I always think he’s a lot older. He’s actually only 25.
He’s 18
Dam… sorry I meant to be put this in the De Ligt thread
I like what I see every time he plays
But for reasons I just can’t fathom, I also worry about him. I think it’s his transfer fee.
How can a kid be that good and only cost 1.5M
I know the reasons for that low value but normally kids with potential cost 40,50,60M
But for reasons I just can’t fathom, I also worry about him. I think it’s his transfer fee.
How can a kid be that good and only cost 1.5M
I know the reasons for that low value but normally kids with potential cost 40,50,60M
I don't think the club get enough praise for signing him. It's pretty incredible that we managed to sign him for so cheap and he's proving to be good enough to start in games straight away.
Heaven and Yoro have been truly fantastic signings that will grow and grow. Saved us a lot of money.
Heaven and Yoro have been truly fantastic signings that will grow and grow. Saved us a lot of money.
Yoro had his bedding in season last year, so this season i expect him to play the majority of games.
Repeat the process for Heaven giving him this season to bed in and come next season Untied should have 2 absolute gems at CB.
Repeat the process for Heaven giving him this season to bed in and come next season Untied should have 2 absolute gems at CB.
I like him. Has very good composure for his age and good physicality. Hopefully he can improve and become a top class CB option for us. Think the only real mistake I noticed yesterday was letting a high ball bounce when he should have been up to head it clear.
Given what he has shown, how much is he realistically worth now?
He'll make plenty of mistakes as any CB under the age of 20 often does, but it's clear to see that he's a top talent. Massive bargain.
I wouldn't mind playing him to get through the mistakes, at the other side is a very good defender imo.
Given his age, he has plenty of talent and is definitely one who has a real chance of establishing himself with us.
He's got good physical attributes and has good composure on the ball for his age. However a caveat is that there's no guarantee that his weaknesses - such as positional awarness of himself and teammates - are things that definitely will get to a good enough level just with 'experience and game time' as plenty like to say about youngsters (also applies to young strkers in regards to composure and consistency of end product).
For some players they do, but for plenty they remain a weakness throughout their career and they rely strongly on their physical attributes to recover situations. We don't yet know whether Heaven will improve in that area or is one of the many who remain quite raw and inconsistent in that area. Time will tell.
But, yeah, he's certainly an exciting talent with all of the attributes at 18 that are needed to earn opportunities to develop and hone his skills.
He's got good physical attributes and has good composure on the ball for his age. However a caveat is that there's no guarantee that his weaknesses - such as positional awarness of himself and teammates - are things that definitely will get to a good enough level just with 'experience and game time' as plenty like to say about youngsters (also applies to young strkers in regards to composure and consistency of end product).
For some players they do, but for plenty they remain a weakness throughout their career and they rely strongly on their physical attributes to recover situations. We don't yet know whether Heaven will improve in that area or is one of the many who remain quite raw and inconsistent in that area. Time will tell.
But, yeah, he's certainly an exciting talent with all of the attributes at 18 that are needed to earn opportunities to develop and hone his skills.
£50m.
He was in the final year of his youth contract and didn’t want to extend.
That’s down to United recruitment team
He should start over Shaw in my view. Maybe even over Licha (but that can happen over the next year)
He's a long term signing.
He will have his share of games, but will need to keep him under wraps for a couple of years, just like Chido, Yoro, Sékou Koné, and even Mainoo. They are all still in the possible growth age for boys, which does vary between each lad. Heaven may still be growing, hence the injuries he keeps getting. The backroom staff, who deal with a players physical development, will know which lads have pretty much reached the end of their growth stage, so they will be possibly used more in the first team environment.
I would assume that Heaven will be a straight replacement for Shaw when he finally goes, probably, in June 2027 (not sure if there is a one year extension clause in his contract).
He will have his share of games, but will need to keep him under wraps for a couple of years, just like Chido, Yoro, Sékou Koné, and even Mainoo. They are all still in the possible growth age for boys, which does vary between each lad. Heaven may still be growing, hence the injuries he keeps getting. The backroom staff, who deal with a players physical development, will know which lads have pretty much reached the end of their growth stage, so they will be possibly used more in the first team environment.
I would assume that Heaven will be a straight replacement for Shaw when he finally goes, probably, in June 2027 (not sure if there is a one year extension clause in his contract).
It wasn't a transfer fee, it was compensation.
He hadn't signed a professional contract and had 6 months left at Arsenal, he refused to sign with them beyond that.
This is directionally correct. I believe it was actually a small transfer fee that was agreed between the clubs instead of it going to tribunal to determine the compensation. Compensation is always pretty low, so it was mutually beneficial, we got what was a likely to be a slightly higher amount than arbitration would have awarded us and you got the player six months earlier.
I agree with both of those and would hope the manager and co consider that position of LCB as his to lose.
Luke Shaw looks lost in that position and is constantly giving away fouls there. He should be competing with Dorgu for LWB in my options.
And Martinez was really starting to annoy me last year before his injury. He had multiple moments of complete insanity where it looked like he was trying to get himself sent off. And besides those crazy two-footed lunges I'm going to assume that we do worse defending set pieces with him in the side. It has to be the case, but I don't want to look it up and have my prejudices proven false.
Agree. If we can get some money for Martinez in jan we should. He’s never been good enough, and he’s even worse in this system.
He's played a handful of games and looked really good. We need to see a consistent run of 30 to 40 games before getting over excited.
I loved the look Brandon Williams in his first bunch of games and it didn't work out.
I loved the look Brandon Williams in his first bunch of games and it didn't work out.
In theory, I agree. It's investing in the future and, theoretically, it may allow us to play higher up the pitch. My worry here is that he looks a bit brittle. Makes me even wonder if that dive versus West Ham in pre-season was a semi genuine flinching and not just a very dramatic reaction.
Great for the likes of him that we are out of Europe, and get all that training with all the other senior players, not half a squad focusing on recovery.
True.
I'd still start him over Shaw though. Going with Shaw feels like a big step back to me. Heaven much more on thr front foot which a CB in this system has to be.
I don't agree on the Shaw thing at all, whilst I admit his injury record and conditioning at times have been disgraceful. If Amorim has got through to him and is getting him in shape then technically we gave no better defender than Shaw. He is a lovely player when fit (rare I know).
He starts ahead of a lad who's played less than ten games. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Heaven plays 20 games this season max, that's the best for his development.
He starts ahead of a lad who's played less than ten games. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Heaven plays 20 games this season max, that's the best for his development.