B2B Draft - Final: 2mufc0 vs Jim Bean

Who will win the match?


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Edgar Allan Pillow

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TEAM 2MUFC0

I am continuing with the diamond formation this game to get the best out of the two greatest players of all time Pele & Maradona. One of the main reasons i picked Pele was because of his malleability to play with other GOAT players. Here, he has less play making responsibility and is tasked with being more direct to to get the goals. Maradona plays in his favoured no.10 role pulling the strings.

I have brought in the phenomenon Ronaldo who is the perfect partner with Pele, both will cause havoc with their pace, power and scoring abilities. The interchangeability will also make them impossible to mark. Pele will be the roaming striker and Ronaldo the 9, both are also able to work the channels when required. Maradona will relish the movement upfront, exposing the opposition defence with his defence splitting passes and interplay with them.

The mercurial front 3 are supported by two of the best B2B midfielders of all time in Neeskens & Falcao able to assist in attacks and also provide industrious defensive cover.

Zito is at the base of the midfield as the defensive midfielder shielding the defence as well as providing distribution forward.

Both full backs are also superb going forward as well as defensively sound, able to pick their moments and provide width as well as provide the defensive cover required. Nilton was the pioneer of attacking full backs and paved the way for full backs like Cafu to play the game the he did.

Two of the greatest all-round modern defenders Nesta & Rio provide a watertight defensive core while also having elite level distribution. One of the greatest keepers of all time shields the goal in Maier.


TEAM BEAM


Formation: 4-2-2-2 - based on Carre Magique or France's Magic Square (I also personally call it JB's Magic Mushroom specially saved for this final occasion)


Playing style: Attacking, characterized by team's invention, industry, creativity and cohesion

Attack

The team is well known to the drafters from previous stages. 4 most advanced names didn't change from round 1 and the reasons are explained in detail. The team is structured to bring the best in Michel Platini in Blokhin and Kalle upfront with immense pace and goalscoring ability allowing Platini to be fully in his element.


In short, the team is made to give Platini the best possible platform to maximize his qualities:




Defence

The back-line is also well known with physical monster in Desailly partnered by a ball-playing defender in Scirea (Tresor role) and 2 WC fullbacks on each side to provide width.

Upgrades

I wanted to add something a bit different to the formula, so for the last and final game am removing all pieces aside from Platini while keeping the essence or pureness of the setup still perfectly in place and staying in the same theme.

So, up step Der Kaiser - Franz Beckenbauer in no. 6 role.



No point in wasting words with his status and influence on the game, so will cut to the chase and what he will add to the team.

- He played it an immense level in his career already

- Luis Fernandez wasn't a destroyer in an original French set-up, but more of a DLP with a pretty good passing range and the one who often surged forward with those behind him watching his back.

- By adding Der Kaiser to this position am basically upgrading two phases of my team. Defensive one as he will make a creative wall with Rijkaard in the defence against the opponent and the offensive one as there will be no pressing when he gets the ball providing him with a perfect platform to pick his passes or go forward making the numerical advantage in the last phase of the pitch. Something which will benefit Platini and the whole team massively.



Conclusion

Overwhelming midfield which will fully shut down opponent's route through that area.

No clear weakness in the team at this stage of the draft while I think there are some relative ones on the other side. The weaknesses which I will attack now with Platini, Iniesta and Der Kaiser simultaneously on most occassions.

If the other team goes narrow also, I think I have a clear advantage.
 

Physiocrat

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@Jim Beam I really like Der Kaiser as DLP here. Will have to think more and will watch the debate but think it's a great idea.
 

2mufc0

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Great team @Jim Beam

Not sure I've seen Kaiser in this role, and will probably be more restricted in this role and with Platini dropping deep seems a bit redundant adding another play maker in midfield .
 

Šjor Bepo

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id pay some serious money to watch Iniesta and Kaiser in the same team:drool:
 

Jim Beam

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@2mufc0 best of luck and great team too.

Will be a bit in & out of a debate, but will try to answer most of the questions. Those who expect the continuation of fireworks from the semi-final will be left a bit disappointed imo. :wenger:

Overall, I stay with most points raised in my OP and in Conclusion. Wanted 2mufc to go narrow and I think I have the advantage as both of my fullbacks are more suited to such formation. Rate Nilton, but not as someone who will provide the necessary width in such formation or definitely not on the level that my FB's are capable. Zito is a great player, but I wanted to attack him with Platini, Iniesta and Der Keiser often coming from the deep which will be almost impossible to contain. Also, I wanted to add something new and fresh to the formation while keeping the essence of the setup still in place.

Der Kaiser played this role on a brillaint level during his career (1966 won the young player of WC award). And I firmly belive looking at all the characteristics he would probably played it today when sweeper role is somewhat diminished. The defensive sturdiness of a central defender and the technique and ball control of a play-maker? Yeah, I can see him thrive in that position tbh...

Luis Fernandez was more of a DLP as already been mentioned who often surged forward. There is no need for Platini to come deep (never was so much need tbf) and I believe with Beckenbauer fantastic first time passing or creating numerical advantage when going forward, that can only benefit both Platini and Iniesta while attacking Zito area.
Lastly, Kaiser is there for defensive reasons making that centre as difficult to break along with Rijkaard who is the perfect cover.
 

2mufc0

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Zito won't be by his own, he has Neeskens and Falcao either side helping out in the defensive phase, imo they are more than capable of putting up a fight. And Kaiser was more of a B2B in 1966 not a DLP. It just seems like there are too many players doing the same thing in the middle. Iniesta is a fabulous player but I just don't see what he's adding here?

Also if you are committing all those players forward and at Zito, that would be suicidal against Maradona, Pele and Ronaldo.

Also I think leaving out Tigana you lost that extra physicality in the midfield, Kaiser (if he had a any weakeness) was the physical aspect, I don't see him putting in that same output. Just different players are better in different situations.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Wow, its like people don't know how a magic square works. Don't know what Iniesta adds here has to be the quote of the draft.
 

Theon

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Wanted 2mufc to go narrow and I think I have the advantage as both of my fullbacks are more suited to such formation.
Nah, no way Carlos Alberto is more suited to a diamond than Cafu. The latter is the gold standard when it comes to that role.
 

2mufc0

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Also pushing your fullbacks up who covers for them when they get caught out? While Rijkaard is able to do that, do you really want Kaiser one v one against Pele/Fenomeno?

 

2mufc0

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Nah, no way Carlos Alberto is more suited to a diamond than Cafu. The latter is the gold standard when it comes to that role.
Yeah I would agree wihh that, if Nilton isn't suited to the system I don't see how Carlos is as imo they were of similar profile.
 

Jim Beam

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Also if you are committing all those players forward and at Zito, that would be suicidal against Maradona, Pele and Ronaldo.
I said Kaiser will attack and cut through your middle when he sees the opportunity. Don't really understand it and he has Rijkaard of all people to cover him. Saying Kaiser not to attack (in no press resistent zone no less) would be like saying Maradona not to try some long pass as one might end up in a goal kick.

I would consider Zito as bit of a weakness 1 on 1 vs Platini let alone with Iniesta along stretching that area, Kaiser coming behind cutting through the middle and Platini in the hole. It's called having multiple different weapons to hurt you, not many players doing the same thing. Which is the main reason of adding Beckenbauer.
 
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Jim Beam

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Also pushing your fullbacks up who covers for them when they get caught out? While Rijkaard is able to do that, do you really want Kaiser one v one against Pele/Fenomeno?

So, now am pushing both of my FB's up. One will obviously march forward when he sees the space. And they did brilliantly when they were allowed to do that. As I said in the last match am not sending Ashley Young up there.

Your problem is that you, for all your individual glory, have a double decker to go through. Or funnily another square.

Kaiser - Rijkaard
Scirea - Desailly

And I didn't heard one, single rationale how you mean to break it.
 

2mufc0

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I said Keiser will attack and cut through your middle when he sees the opportunity. Don't really understand it and he has Rijkaard of all people to cover him. Saying Keiser not to attack (in no press resistent zone no less) would be like saying Maradona not to try some long pass as one might end up in a goal kick.

I would consider Zito as bit of a weakness 1 on 1 vs Platini let alone with Iniesta along stretching that area, Keiser coming behind cutting through the middle and Platini in the hole. It's called having multiple different weapons to hurt you, not many players doing the same thing. Which is the main reason of adding Beckenbauer.
I don't see Zito as a weakness, he will do a job at a world class level, Platini was a different type of 10 he wasn't direct in your face and Zito will have no issue with the physical aspect.

TBH i think you've drifted away from the original theme, i don't buy Fernandez as a DLP, Rijkaard should be doing that role and Kaiser doing Tigana's. Also Tigana and Fernandez were the secondary players to release Platini, Kaiser is the type of player you build the team around not use as an enabler.

Luis Fernandez brought a combative element to the team as well as rejuvenating a side lacking in youth. He added greater balance to the square that had looked lopsided beforehand. He bossed each game with sophisticated charm. He added steel to the back four and was also the link between the defence and the attack. His industry and bite made him a prototype, a model midfielder and a vital midfield general. He was crucial in freeing up space for the Giresse and Platini to move forward and work the space. Despite his ruggedness he was more than just a midfield destroyer, he possessed a delightful touch, accuracy and a panoramic vision in reading the game. He was the final piece of puzzle to the Magic Square.
https://footballbh.net/2017/12/19/carre-magique-the-magic-square/
 

Jim Beam

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He was crucial in freeing up space for the Giresse and Platini to move forward and work the space. Despite his ruggedness he was more than just a midfield destroyer, he possessed a delightful touch, accuracy and a panoramic vision in reading the game. He was the final piece of puzzle to the Magic Square.
?? Thanks for finding that mate.

That's pretty much Kaiser role here.
 

2mufc0

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So, now am pushing both of my FB's up. One will obviously march forward when he sees the space. And they did brilliantly when they were allowed to do that. As I said in the last match am not sending Ashley Young up there.

Your problem is that you, for all your individual glory, have a double decker to go through. Or funnily another square.

Kaiser - Rijkaard
Scirea - Desailly

And I didn't heard one, single rationale how you mean to break it.
I think you've strayed more to your 'theme' by shoehorning Kaiser in there. And i don't believe I've gone for individual glory, if that was the case i would have gone for much bigger names than Zito and Rio, i've also benched players like Puskas, Gento and Jairzinho. And i don't see how my team is individual, they all complement each other well with little overlaps.

As for going through that 4, you need exceptional players to do it, and IMO there is no one better than Maradona, Pele and Ronaldo, my midfield will also win that physical battle imo. Then not to mention Falcao and Neeskens two of the best midfielders of all time in positions they are suited too. Furthermore, CB Desailly wasn't as agile and mobile than his younger DM version, also Scirea wasn't a physical defender either against two extremely powerful and quick strikers like Pele and Ronaldo it's not so bullet-proof as you make. The real question is how will you stop that front 3 backed up by those two midfielders?

But don't take my word for it, here's Desailly in his own words talking about Fenomeno:


And peak Ronaldo terrorising a French defence with Desailly playing as CB:

 
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Šjor Bepo

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this is the perfect example why easy drafts are crap, its impossible to separate this two teams.
 

2mufc0

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I mean... Find some more articles please.
Sorry, wrong quote:

Spanish born Luis Fernandez was placed at the bottom of the square to provide cover and industry to Alain Giresse and Jean Tigana who were placed in the left and right respectively. Platini was given a free role at the top of the square to plunder and wreak havoc behind the forwards.

Luis Fernandez brought a combative element to the team as well as rejuvenating a side lacking in youth.
 

2mufc0

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ZITO



Zito was a colossal influence; a commanding if somewhat unsung presence in midfield as Brazil emerged as the ultimate force in international football, winning the World Cup for the first time in 1958 and retaining it in 1962.

While headlines were dominated by the prodigious talents of team-mates such as Pele and Garrincha, and understandably so, the neat, pragmatic, impeccably organised wing-half was invariably instrumental in creating the platform from which the stars dazzled.

Zito was a strong, intelligent character who won tackles and made simple passes, entering the limelight only occasionally.

The most decisive such occasion was when he started and finished the move which put the Selecao in front after conceding an early lead to Czechoslovakia in the 1962 final in Santiago, Chile, nodding home an Amarildo cross on the way to a 3-1 triumph.

He was the hard man, the midfield enforcer. But there was another side to his game, which he showed in scoring the goal that essentially won the cup. The score in the final was tied at 1-1 just over half way through the second half, when he started a move on the edge of his own penalty area, and finished it with a close-range header from Amarildo’s cross.







Four years earlier, in Sweden, he had been integral to the 5-2 victory over the host nation in the Stockholm final, and he went on to collect 52 caps in an international career which stretched from 1955 to 1964.

At domestic level, too, Zito was hugely successful, helping Santos – his only senior club, for whom he scored 57 goals in more than 700 appearances between 1952 and 1967 – to win 22 major trophies. These included the Copa Libertadores twice, in 1962 and 1963, and the Sao Paulo state championship nine times.

Later, he served Santos splendidly behind the scenes, being credited with the discovery of future top performers such as Robinho and current Barcelona hero Neymar. With Zito's death, Pele and Mario Zagallo are the last survivors of the great 1958 side.

Honours

Club


Santos

Torneio Rio – São Paulo: 1959, 1963, 1964, 1966

Campeonato Paulista: 1955, 1956, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1967

Taça Brasil: 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965

Copa Libertadores: 1962, 1963

Intercontinental Cup: 1962, 1963

International

FIFA World Cup: 1958, 1962

Individual

FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1962

World Soccer World XI: 1962
 

Enigma_87

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?? Thanks for finding that mate.

That's pretty much Kaiser role here.
Curious to see the change in tune having DLP with libero in Scirea behind him? How are they not overlapping in their role? Especially with Platini well known for dropping deep and starting moves on his own.
 

2mufc0

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Ok logging off for a bit @Jim Beam feel free to post.
 

Jim Beam

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Curious to see the change in tune having DLP with libero in Scirea behind him? How are they not overlapping in their role? Especially with Platini well known for dropping deep and starting moves on his own.
You recovered? Nice to see you.

It is called trying to find more ways to hurt the opposition. Scirea is playing Tresor role. It is described in OP, you would notice it maybe if you were still not dizzy from the last match.
 

Enigma_87

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You recovered? Nice to see you.

It is called trying to find more ways to hurt the opposition. Scirea is playing Tresor role. It is described in OP, you would notice it maybe if you were still not dizzy from the last match.
Scirea was quite different from Tresor. For starters Tresor was physical freak, whilst Scirea was more of an elegant defender on his own.

If you are looking for a sweeper to replicate Tresor Figueroa is much better fit, whilst Scirea possibly the worst out of the GOATs.
 

Jim Beam

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Scirea was quite different from Tresor. For starters Tresor was physical freak, whilst Scirea was more of an elegant defender on his own.

If you are looking for a sweeper to replicate Tresor Figueroa is much better fit, whilst Scirea possibly the worst out of the GOATs.
I liked what Beckenbauer could offer me in this set up much more mate.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Scirea was quite different from Tresor. For starters Tresor was physical freak, whilst Scirea was more of an elegant defender on his own.

If you are looking for a sweeper to replicate Tresor Figueroa is much better fit, whilst Scirea possibly the worst out of the GOATs.
So we start off with Scirea and Kaiser overlap.

Argument comes in that he plays the Tresor role of a cultered ball playing centre back and not as a libero.

Then the problem changes to Tresor is better physically than Scirea which is irrelevant when it comes to overlapping point while the original point is forgotten.

Amazing how this art is mastered :lol:
 

Enigma_87

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The same balance and system you didn't understood in the first place?

Btw. you lost, shit happens, move along. ;)
Understanding a magic square depicted as a diamond and related as diamond number of times? This one is better it actually looks like a square ;)

I’m commenting on the current set up which is in play. You reckon Beckenbauer and Rijkaard is more balanced than Tigana and Rijkaard?

How does Beckenbauer help your balance with Scirea having to play more restricted ball playing defender than his natural role and subbing off Tigana as a selfless runner role in midfield?
 

Physiocrat

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I see no overlap between Der Kaiser and Platini. Whilst Der Kaiser is more in his 66 role he worked very well with Netzer who, like Platini, liked to drop deep and pick the ball up from the CBs.

Scriea and Der Kaiser is more of a potential problem. The main question I think is whether you lose a lot of Scriea's game if he is more restricted to a cultured CB role? I'm not that sure that you do. Scriea seems much more a defender first than Libero first from what I have seen of him - the ultimate positional and timing mastermind. I also think it relevant that Baresi said if he and Scriea were to play in the same side he would play in midfield.

2mufc0's team is very well put together although I have reservations still about Nilton. You could say Carlos Alberto is similar in style, which is fair to some extent but Kalle is happier outwide than Pele which makes a difference.
 

Jim Beam

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This one is better it actually looks like a square ;)
I honestly made it that way while thinking about you. :lol:

I’m commenting on the current set up which is in play. You reckon Beckenbauer and Rijkaard is more balanced than Tigana and Rijkaard?
Rijkaard was a definition of a complete midfielder. If I put Beckenbauer in the role I described 100 times here, then yes, Rijkaard is more suited to provide midfield balance and cover counting Diego behind. In fact, in that sense, he is perfect.

How does Beckenbauer help your balance with Scirea having to play more restricted ball playing defender than his natural role and subbing off Tigana as a selfless runner role in midfield?
Scirea can play the role of a more cultured CB without any problem as Physio said and as I described in OP. And I didn't lose anything in him playing that way. The beauty of Beckenbauer my friend. :)

Any more questions will answer later, have a more serious things to do. Cheers.
 

Joga Bonito

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Is it the 1966 version of Beckenbauer in midfield there or are you playing the seventies libero in midfield @Jim Beam

The first will slot in seamlessly afaik whereas it requires more thinking with the second with Scirea and Platini on the pitch. That being said, it has to be noted that Beckenbauer and Netzer forged a great understanding and Netzer was a dominant playmaker who loved dropping deep and dictating proceedings.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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You reckon Beckenbauer and Rijkaard is more balanced than Tigana and Rijkaard?
I'd say yes and an upgrade. Much more dynamic in attack and more astute in defence. The DM version of Beckenbauer came 3rd in Balon d'Or only after Sir Bobby Charlton and Eusebio. One of the most influential players in the WC too and definitely would have a better impact than Tigana.
 

Enigma_87

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I'd say yes and an upgrade. Much more dynamic in attack and more astute in defence. The DM version of Beckenbauer came 3rd in Balon d'Or only after Sir Bobby Charlton and Eusebio. One of the most influential players in the WC too and definitely would have a better impact than Tigana.
The 66’ version was not a DM.
 

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I'd say yes and an upgrade. Much more dynamic in attack and more astute in defence. The DM version of Beckenbauer came 3rd in Balon d'Or only after Sir Bobby Charlton and Eusebio. One of the most influential players in the WC too and definitely would have a better impact than Tigana.
Agree he fits well but imo it’s in the box to box Tigana role as opposed to the Fernández one. As you correctly said the ‘66 version was a dynamic presence who offered a real threat going forward (his two goals vs Switzerland a good example of his tendency to push forward).

Personally don’t think that role suits the Fernández DM position at all, seems a real risk against Maradona and even stranger when you have Rijkaard on the pitch playing a Tigana role that I don’t think quite suits him either.

I think the whole thing needs a bit of a rethink.

Edit: As Enigma said above.