Backing Harry Maguire in this tough time would be a true test of Ole

baskinginthesun

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It would be difficult for Ole not to back him. I mean, he is probably better than any of our other CB's and based on last season, Ole seems to like Maguire.

But, I will agree with a lot of what is being said here in that the team isn't quite clicking, something is missing and everybody is struggling to find form. Probably has to do with the truncated preseason and off the field issues. But, maybe being away from the Man United limelight for awhile will help get his head straight for the next 2 weeks. Hopefully, we'll see a much more determined and motivated Maguire when he gets back.
 

Forevergiggs1

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Really think Maquire needs to be dropped. Not because, like the rest of the team he's in terrible form but his head just isn't in a good place atm. He looks like a nervous wreck every time he plays. Get him out of the spotlight and let him get his confidence back gradually because he is a lot better player than what we're seeing.
 

croadyman

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Really think Maquire needs to be dropped. Not because, like the rest of the team he's in terrible form but his head just isn't in a good place atm. He looks like a nervous wreck every time he plays. Get him out of the spotlight and let him get his confidence back gradually because he is a lot better player than what we're seeing.
Yeah definitely looks like what happened in Greece is clearly still in his head and is affecting his game, think he needs to admit to himself there is a problem and get some counselling before it swamps him. Maybe then we will see the player who at least looked our best CB last season but he's a long way from one of the best ones in the league.
 

Denis79

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Maguire is Oles record signing, he's not going to get benched and his not losing his armband.
 

JB7

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Come on. He certainly isn't 'class'. We know this already. Agree that he isn't anywhere near as bad as he is playing right now but winning a title with Maguire as one of your first choice centre halves seems highly remote.
Yeah he's so not "class" that two of the best managers of all time wanted him as their defensive lynchpin.
 

redmanx

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Keane was great captain because he knew what needed to be done, whether that was shouting, or fighting or just go and do the job by himself, it was combination of many things. Sometimes some player or referees need a shake down, Maguire is far from what is needed in many of those departments.
The rest of the team knew that if they failed to perform then Keane would be after them, and after him they had to face Fergie; if a player did his job and didnt let the team down by making stupid, school boy mistakes they wouldnt feel Keanes wrath, Keane was a REAL captain and leader.
 

elnorte

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Yeah he's so not "class" that two of the best managers of all time wanted him as their defensive lynchpin.
Except now that you've watched him play, you're struggling to understand why those two managers did want him.
 

JB7

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Except now that you've watched him play, you're struggling to understand why those two managers did want him.
No not really, I think it's pretty plain to see why they wanted him tbh. Anyone who saw the difference in our defending for the most part last season vs 18/19 (when Shaw and Lindelof were actually up for our player of the year) would see it because those managers watch games in full & context rather than 3 second meme clips like a lot of our fanbase.

He's had a terrible start to the season, but I'm not pressing the panic button on him yet.
 

Lennon7

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If he wasn’t our captain and/or didn’t cost £80m would he be getting the same treatment?

I realise I’m coming across as a bit of a Maguire fan as late - I’m not - I’m just trying to get inside the mind of the screamers on her
 

Denis79

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No not really, I think it's pretty plain to see why they wanted him tbh. Anyone who saw the difference in our defending for the most part last season vs 18/19 (when Shaw and Lindelof were actually up for our player of the year) would see it because those managers watch games in full & context rather than 3 second meme clips like a lot of our fanbase.

He's had a terrible start to the season, but I'm not pressing the panic button on him yet.
All our defenders have been poor this season not arguing that but the high line we played vs Spurs was suicidal, really poor tactical choice by Ole. Our defenders were constantly found in the wrong positions because of it.
 

JB7

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All our defenders have been poor this season not arguing that but the high line we played vs Spurs was suicidal, really poor tactical choice by Ole. Our defenders were constantly found in the wrong positions because of it.
I totally agree, it was a classic Mourinho masterclass in asking Kane to drop off & getting Son to run in behind because our defenders had clearly prepared for a Kane lone striker & hadn't got a clue how to deal with it.

And continuing to play out from goal kicks with Bailly instead of Lindelof was always going to be suicidal.
 

Mindhunter

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Strange thread. It seems like Maguire is our talisman and we need him to be at his best for the team to have any chance of success. I don't think he has that kind of talent to influence the entire team. He can't even influence our backline.

Ole's real test will be to get us to the CL places this season. With the start we have had, we need another Bruno signing in January and a lot of "sucking" from Chelsea, Arsenal, Leicester, and Tottenham.
 

Denis79

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I totally agree, it was a classic Mourinho masterclass in asking Kane to drop off & getting Son to run in behind because our defenders had clearly prepared for a Kane lone striker & hadn't got a clue how to deal with it.

And continuing to play out from goal kicks with Bailly instead of Lindelof was always going to be suicidal.
Nice analysis, didn't think about the Son/Kane switch but you're right.

Managers can have bad games as well and Ole had a nightmare vs Spurs. This isn't meant as another Ole bashing post but the tactics made our out of form defenders look even worse, we were never going to play with stability at the back with our back line that high up.
 

KW2006

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He is not captain material. Just imagine the response of Keane/Vidic/Rooney if they are our captain in the Lamela incident. And see what Magurire have done. Spineless.
 

KW2006

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He already backed him by letting him retain the captaincy after being convicted over the summer. Not sure what more support the manager can show for an undeserving player.

Unless you're now arguing that he's earned an endless leash where he should get special treatment and never be dropped in a squad where damn near everyone has been pulled/bench at some point for various reasons? That sort of favoritism is one of the things that doomed Jose, blows me away that some want Ole to follow that route as well...
Exactly. The club backed him. He let the club down.
 

Class of 63

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Said in another thread that it didn't do Steve Bruce any harm having the Captaincy taken from him and having to 'earn' the Band again, but saying that I don't think in this instance it would be the right thing to do as he needs our support after the way he was treated by England a while back, Harry will be fine once the United team get their fitness up to the required levels and start playing with confidence again, and to hell with England.

It takes a special type of character to be able to rip into a team-mate with superior ability to yourself as he needs to as Captain, and he does it well, importantly his teammates seen to respect him for doing it as well.

If he's fit he plays, and if he plays he'll be our Captain, and long may that continue.
 

amolbhatia50k

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What a lame first test nearly 2 years into the United job.
 

Red_toad

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Really think Maquire needs to be dropped. Not because, like the rest of the team he's in terrible form but his head just isn't in a good place atm. He looks like a nervous wreck every time he plays. Get him out of the spotlight and let him get his confidence back gradually because he is a lot better player than what we're seeing.
Maquire :lol:

Harry will be fine it‘s our alleged fans who need to pull their heads in. He’s our best centre half by far. Way too many silly reactive kneejerk threads allowed on this form, which just encourages the whole madness that follows. Players don’t get confidence by being dropped, in fact generally the opposite happens.
 

Ronaldo's Mum Eh?

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Another Harry Maguire thread but this will be a positive one. Unlike other knee jerkers I do not believe his captaincy should be stripped or anything. Every player has dips. I have never seen Harry play as bad as this making basic errors and so I'm confident this is an aberration in otherwise solid career.

Harry Maguire is class and he will come good for us as captain. Somehow because Roy Keane (one of our best captains) was good at shouting people seem to think the shouting is what makes someone a good player to lead. Share all the stupid 30 second clips you want. Maguire will see this through!
Maguire doesn't have talent or leadership skills to be captain.

He's an average defender. You realize smalling was better than him right? Smalling has done more and been better in his career than maguire has so far.

Maguire is a clown and will be sold within the next 3 seasons.
 

R'hllor

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Really dont care about him keeping armband or not, still amazed how he got it on the first place, what a actual joke that whole thing was and it came from none other than Ole.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Ole's never ending true/real tests.

Let's see... Ole letting Mag keeping the armband is done.
Next.. Ole should tell the club to offer bumper higher wages new contract for great Captain Maguire, and giving more supportive comments in interviews of how good Maguire is as a player and captain, that can even rival the many great captains of Manchester United in the past.
 

Ali Dia

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He is not captain material. Just imagine the response of Keane/Vidic/Rooney if they are our captain in the Lamela incident. And see what Magurire have done. Spineless.
he couldn’t have just gone over and thumped him or started shouting or anything, it wouldn’t have changed anything. Maguire is probably still public enemy number one in his own head and I’d say he’s going to be keeping his head down for a long time yet.
 

Bebestation

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I'm not backing his decisions but its funny how Ole gets pointed out for choosing Maguire as his captain in his first season when alot of the fans are doing something very similar in picking Bruno Fernandes as theirs.
 

devilish

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He's not WC far from it. He might be half decent though ONLY if we allow him to focus on his job and maybe we add a CB who can do all the running and the thinking for him. So I'd say strip him from the captain band and give it to Bruno with Rashy as no 2.
 

RashyForPM

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The title makes it sound like Maguire is Cantona. He’s not, so forget backing him. He’s playing awfully, thus we should drop him.
 

Bobcat

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Come on. He certainly isn't 'class'. We know this already. Agree that he isn't anywhere near as bad as he is playing right now but winning a title with Maguire as one of your first choice centre halves seems highly remote.
I think we have been spoiled silly in the 90's and 2000's with CB's. Maguire is no Vidic, but hes solid and he always comes across as very genuine and a decent man in his interviews so i think there is a reason Ole wanted him as captain besides his capacity to shout at people

Much worse CB's than him have lifted the PL trophy
 

devilish

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Keane was great captain because he knew what needed to be done, whether that was shouting, or fighting or just go and do the job by himself, it was combination of many things. Sometimes some player or referees need a shake down, Maguire is far from what is needed in many of those departments.
Captains come in all shape or forms. Keane was a centurion, he'll keep everyone in line. Cantona lead by charisma. Everything rotated around him. Also he lead by example. He was the first person to come to the training ground, the last to leave and he never ever left the training pitch without first signing every piece of paper, shirt etc the fans gave him to sign. There's story that he once returned to the training pitch because he thought he skipped one person. Gaz was a bore and the teacher's pet. If a player crossed the line like taking an extra pint of beer then rest assured Sir Alex would know.

All had 2 things in common though. They knew the club inside out and they were confident in their abilities. Captains cannot lead if they doubt themselves. We lack someone who can be the full package. However we do have people who can cover the latter ie Bruno.

Maguire should focus on the basics ie defending. He's got enough problems in dealing with that and the his problems in Greece. Let him focus on that
 

meamth

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Just as an example. Look at harry kanes goal from Bailly's passing mistake.

Is it Bailly's fault we let that goal in? Yes. However it's not his own fault in my view.

Matic is playing out wide on the right of a double pivot and the guy has to run back to a central position to get the ball off Bailly. Matic isnt fast enough to make it tothe central position to receive the ball when playing wider in a double pivot.

What would happen if Matic was playing in the most central position as a cover for the CB? The guy would be positioned perfectly to receive the ball when our defenders make a pass under pressure. That's what CDM that cover our CB'S do.

Instead we have our midfielders wide in a double pivot playing reactively than proactively.
Who the feck cares with that highlights? We know he made terrible mistakes.

This is the point of the thread, get behind the player instead of damning him forever, for the mistakes.

We have seen great sides lost terribly over the years. Chill the feck out, Maguire was good last season, he can't suddenly becomes shit.
 

izak

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It's not about Maguire, it's about Manchester United. It would do Harry more damage if he kept being the talking point after every match because of his mistakes.

Best thing to do is take him out of the limelight and leave him on the training ground until things are settled.

At the moment our defence is playing like a bunch of drunk lads on a Sunday morning . Most of it is due to the poor coaching that Ole and his team are responsible for.

Manchester United do not have very good players to be passing the ball in the 6 yard box. Ole is deluded and must just teach these players basics. Just defend, and leave the fancy stuff to a Pep Guardiola team

I get why teams play from the back but if you are not good enough to play that way its pointless persisting with that.
I've been trying to make this point in other threads this week, We need to change our tactics to suit what we have, now we've got
Cavani, Mason, Rashy, Pogba or VDB, Bruno, Fred, Telles, AWB, Maguire, Lindelöf and DDG

With this players we can play in a way Bayern plays (Especially like the Barca game last season)

Cavani (in the Lewi role)
Rashy (Colman role)
Mason (Gnebry role)
Pogba/VDB ( Müller role)
Bruno ( plays free role)
Fred (Thiago role, But more like a Destroyer)
Telles ( Davies role )
AWB (Instructed how to play)
Maguire (Instruction)
Lindelöf (Instruction)
DDG (Instruction)

We should stop playing out from the back 80% of the time in games, but use playing out of the back as a decoy to our tactics, which should be Lindelöf, Maguire and AWB drop deep when DDG wants to play a goal kick, but instead of passing to feet like we always do but we send it long to either Cavani, Pogba (whom i think should be playing as a second striker) or to our wingers in Rashy or Mason, which allows our Central backs time to jog up the pitch behind the scenes, from there on the likes of Mason, Rashy, Cavani, Pogba and Bruno can fight for the second ball, win it, recycle it either out wide more preferably to Telles to whip in early crosses for the likes of Cavani, Pogba and Mason to attack. While Bruno roams around picking up left overs and Fred snuffing out counter attacks( with professionals fouls)

This would benefit Our defenders more, this would reduce the responsibility for them to play out from the back much unless the ball is be recycled back to them which they should either play diagonal passes to the wide men after on or two touches, the likes of Fred, Bruno and Pogba should cut out dueling in possession, our passes should be quick out wide or foward to Cavani or Pogba to either set our wingers out wide for the cross or cut in and shoot!

One things I've noticed alot is Maguire, Lindelöf are good at Positioning which is good, AWB shouldn't be giving licenses to bum foward because he's useless doing that, he should be played more as a standing right back who rarely joins in when attacking.

Sorry guys maybe it's the wrong thread but i still had to say it since it's involves helping Maguire perform better.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Come on. He certainly isn't 'class'. We know this already. Agree that he isn't anywhere near as bad as he is playing right now but winning a title with Maguire as one of your first choice centre halves seems highly remote.
------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50

Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost

https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274

I see people talking about dropping Maguire. Harry is our best defender. In fact, it's not even close. Harry is indeed class. He is closer to VVD than he is to Lindeloff. Harry isn't the problem. Sure, he's made a few mistakes, but you don't improve a team by dropping your best players. Imagine if Liverpool fans all of a sudden started asking for VVD to be dropped after their start?
 

Bebestation

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Who the feck cares with that highlights? We know he made terrible mistakes.

This is the point of the thread, get behind the player instead of damning him forever, for the mistakes.

We have seen great sides lost terribly over the years. Chill the feck out, Maguire was good last season, he can't suddenly becomes shit.
I'm talking about the 4231 and how it doesnt help anyone out - Bailly, matic, Pogba and our whole defensive line.

I didnt say anything about Maguire.
 

Sky1981

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Maguire doesn't have talent or leadership skills to be captain.

He's an average defender. You realize smalling was better than him right? Smalling has done more and been better in his career than maguire has so far.

Maguire is a clown and will be sold within the next 3 seasons.
You wish. He'd continue stanking this place. To average to be sold for value.

I'd doubt many teams would take him for 200k per week even on free. He's painfully not an upgrade on any other team's main defender.
 

dev1l

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------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50

Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost

https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274

I see people talking about dropping Maguire. Harry is our best defender. In fact, it's not even close. Harry is indeed class. He is closer to VVD than he is to Lindeloff. Harry isn't the problem. Sure, he's made a few mistakes, but you don't improve a team by dropping your best players. Imagine if Liverpool fans all of a sudden started asking for VVD to be dropped after their start?
Not to mention that he rarely misses a game through injury. Which is a bonus considering the amount of injuries our cb s had year in year out.

There was a stat on one of the papers about players who played most minutes since February and he s on tops. He may have some fatigue but our cb situation doesn't allow us to rest him much.
 

kafta

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I think Maguire is nowhere near the level to be our best CB and organizer from the back. But if we do get one really good CB in, he can be an excellent partner. It's baffling this window went by without us getting a CB in, but if we do get someone like Upamecano in, i'm sure Harry would look much better. Doesn't say much about what we paid for him, but that's the point anymore.
 

GregtheRed_

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The thing for me is that Maguire isnt the only problem for the team.

Are we just going to blame the CB everytime they make a mistake?

How does a player get to the CB's so freely every game?

Is it that Matic is played in a right handed channel as a double pivot and not fully centrally to provide the defensive support in front of the CB?

Is it that Pogba is too easy to get past by in a double pivot? Is it that he likes to play so freely in such a defensive role that he ends up dribbling right in to the opposition and losing the ball?

Does Bruno Fernandes have to drop back more regularly because we consistently lose the ball in deeper positions in comparison to when Fred & Mctomminay played together as a flawed but defensively high energetic partnership? Does this effect his creative ability further up the pitch?

Do we even press as a team like before? I remember Martial was surprisingly pressing well at the front and Rashford & Greenwood together from outwide. All of that seems gone with Rashford and Greenwood playing deeper and wider than ever before. Do they even track back in such a position? Martial seems isolated up front rather than in a group of 3 with other forwards where he can interlink both defensively and attacking.

I'm not saying this as an excuse for our defenders like Lindelof, Maguire, Bailly, AWB and Shaw. They make considerable consistent mistakes now more than ever but can we just blame the defenders when our whole team is so loose?

Would a world class defender not make a couple mistakes in this defence when our whole team is struggling to show defensive capabilities or even play as a full functioning team?

Our formation was a 4231 in the first half of last season but we were positioned more like at times a 433 with Rashford & Greenwood in proper inverted forward position doing pressing instead of playing out wide and trying to be creative. We had Our CM's pressing from deep as much as they were dropping back to defend when necessary due to their energy. We seem like a proper static 4231 one now with hardly any interlinking ability both defensively and attacking.

The formation just sucks because it places players in positions they are not good enough at - leaving the defenders under more pressure than ever before.
Brilliant post.

I've seen fans suggest that if we were to sign Sancho we'd manage to turn him into a terrible player within a season. That would mean there's a problem with our tactics, not necessarily Sancho (unless he flopped on his own accord). How long do you think it would be before the same fans called him a waste, or that we were mugged off by Dortmund when really it's down to the manager? We're terrible at playing to our individual players strengths squad wide, but the defence and Maguire in particular are the one's hung out to dry because of it.

It's pathetic how frequently we try to play out from the back, opponent presses, we lose the ball and give away a corner (which we suck at defending) or concede.
  • De Gea is comfortably one of the worst distributors of the ball in the league.
  • AWB can't tolerate anyone pressing him and is forced to play it to Lindelof or de Gea as soon as he is.
  • Lindelof covers, yet panics the second an attacker runs at him and backtracks (Bailly is an absolute madman when he partners Maguire).
  • Maguire pushes forward as he's 'ball playing' and has no pace, yet lacks the partner that can cover him appropriately when doing so.
  • Shaw is often up field or tucking into the midfield and is caught out of position leaving a huge gap.
These are tactics applied by OGS and coaching staff which clearly don't work, yet are repeatedly applied game after game. Fans then claim 'x' player isn't good enough when they make a mistake. We're such a predictable team. Add to that the consistent sloppy passes which concede possession at present form by our midfield and it's a recipe for disaster.

Individual errors will always occur even in players deemed world class, but they're easily forgiven if good tactics are applied making them a rarity. Something we unfortunately don't do.
 
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Superden

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Hes doing no better or worse than the rest of the squad, which is why he wont be singled out by ole, otherwise its the youth team and the kit man against newcastle. Again as is the norm nowadays the caf moves quickly from considered criticism to vicious personal abuse, because people are biting the heads off babies out on the pitch..
 

T_Model101

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There are no established alternatives to Maguire in the squad, they're either useless or made out of wet tissue paper or a combination of both. If Maguire continues to struggle then someone at the club needs to put an arm around Mengi and tell him that there is a massive opportunity for him to step up to the big leagues here.