Backing Harry Maguire in this tough time would be a true test of Ole

UNITED ACADEMY

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As you can probably tell by now, I somewhat rate Bailly. He gets us out of trouble sometimes with his speed and even erratic slide tackling (can't remember many instances as I just woke up :lol:, think Kovacic last season). He should not be the CB we look to prioritise selling. He's still better than Rojo and Jones.
His problem isn’t just his erratic style, his inconsistency to perform and also his decision making in both defending and ball playing. The fact that we struggle to sell deadwood, we shouldn’t be picky on players who are not good enough at all, he should be in the list of selling priority and if there is taker, take the money.
 
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Perhaps, although that is severe underrating of Bailly. In the few times they played together last season, Maguire had very good games against Chelsea and Norwich. I agree though that generally, Maguire is better with Lindelof.
there really is not a severe underrating of Bailly. Unfortunately he’s proved time and again that he’s not good enough, and it surprises me, after all this time that anyone thinks he can make it. He’s the classic example of a player whose reputation gets better the more he’s out the side. He’s got some attributes that in theory would compliment our defence, pace, a strong tackle, some flair. But his glaring deficiencies far outweigh any benefits.

He reappears occasionally, and sometimes puts in a good performance, then gets injured. He cannot be relied upon. For the sake of his own career, he needs to go, and hopefully get to play regularly at a lower level.

ref Maguire though. I think I commented in the England thread, or perhaps there’s another Maguire thread...

But well done to Southgate, OGS and Maguire. He was in poor form, and the managers stuck by him, and the player got through it.

happens all the time, yet for some reason, I assume the price tag there’s so much scrutiny on Maguire.

as far as I can see, a big proportion of the negativity, the hate towards him and the ridicule comes from our own fanbase.

he’s our best defender, and to be successful we need him to be playing well. He’s now starting to repay that faith.

if it was down to the Caf, he would be out of the side on an extended break ready to be sold in Jan.
 

RashyForPM

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His problem isn’t just his erratic style, his inconsistency to perform and also his decision making in both defending and ball playing. The fact that we struggle to sell deadwood, we shouldn’t be picky on players who are not good enough at all, he should be in the list of selling priority and if there is taker, take the money.
But we can't sell everyone in one or two windows. Even Liverpool and City took time to shift players like Lovren, Clyne, Otamendi, Mangala, Kalpana, Nolito, Navas etc. Why? It's impossible and we will run out of players. So, would you rather sell Rojones first or Bailly?
 

devilish

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He was a massive improvement on anything we had the season before.
If that means during the time when we had a toxic dressing room in which the manager used to humiliate in public a random guy then that is hardly an achievement. Last year we conceded more goals then during the year 2017-2018 and the year prior to that. Meanwhile Leicester conceded less goals last year then the year before. They must have laughed their way to the bank. Good luck getting 2/3 of that fee now.
 

Hammondo

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If that means during the time when we had a toxic dressing room in which the manager used to humiliate in public a random guy then that is hardly an achievement. Last year we conceded more goals then during the year 2017-2018 and the year prior to that. Meanwhile Leicester conceded less goals last year then the year before. They must have laughed their way to the bank. Good luck getting 2/3 of that fee now.
It seems to be well known to everyone but United fans that Evans was always the better player.
 

dal

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Johnny Evans
Wes brown
Shawcross
Michael keane

We make quality centrebacks.

The question is I suppose : do Evans and Keane make a better partnership than Maguire and Lindelof.
 

AchillesMaxx

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I think he never performed up to his 80 millions pound rated value and OGS should have never given the captain armband to someone who just came into the club. He knows nothing about the club culture and I see him possess none of the captain materials as well. Everyone please look at the goals we concede and Harry never seems to command the line well and to organize the defense. His weakness of the game may be compensated by another fast center back but he lacks of the quality to make into top tier center backs!
 

devilish

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It seems to be well known to everyone but United fans that Evans was always the better player.
The problem with Evans was that he was injury prone. Maguire was a silly signing. The guy is meah defensively wise and has zero pace. That's a problem as teams tend to defend deep against us which in turn forces us to commit as many players forward as possible. In such circumstances Maguire becomes an easy target as these teams tend to hit us back with quick counters.
 

Hammondo

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The problem with Evans was that he was injury prone. Maguire was a silly signing. The guy is meah defensively wise and has zero pace. That's a problem as teams tend to defend deep against us which in turn forces us to commit as many players forward as possible. In such circumstances Maguire becomes an easy target as these teams tend to hit us back with quick counters.
I feel like we had a generation of injury prone youngsters at one point.
 

dal

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Unfortunately Maguire was a necessary signing, regardless of its silly or not.

We need a calm head who is good and steady and can settle in straight away. He definitely cost too much but it’s an anomaly.

We were pretty sure he would settle in right away and he has. We need a leader and by in large he represents an assured figure at the back.
 
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GueRed

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the Maguire haters are pathetic :lol:

imagine Bailly and Lindelof at the back with Tuazebe and Jones back-up

makes me shudder just thinking about it
 

devilish

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I feel like we had a generation of injury prone youngsters at one point.
true and that's something we should investigate. The list is endless and is persistent. The twins, Wes, Jones, Shaw, Bailly, Tuanzebe and now Laird seem to join the crew as well.
 

devilish

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the Maguire haters are pathetic :lol:

imagine Bailly and Lindelof at the back with Tuazebe and Jones back-up

makes me shudder just thinking about it
No one suggested that we didn't need a CB. However we shouldn't have spent 80m on an ordinary CB with no pace.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Johnny Evans
Wes brown
Shawcross
Michael keane

We make quality centrebacks.

The question is I suppose : do Evans and Keane make a better partnership than Maguire and Lindelof.
No is that a serious question? Keane is shite and Evan’s isn’t much better. Evan’s in particular had his chance to cut it at Utd after Rio and Vidic left and he bottled it. He’s bang average and Maguire is easily twice the player, Lindelof is better than both too.
 

Volumiza

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Unfortunately Maguire was a necessary signing, regardless of its silly or not.

We need a calm head who is good are steady and can settle in straight away. He definitely cost too much but it’s an anomaly.

We were pretty sure he would settle in right away and he has. We need a leader and by in large he represents an assured figure at the back.
Probably the best post in the whole thread. Yes, he isn’t an £80m defender and no, he’s not the best in the world but he’s a very good player and was the right player for us at the time. Apart from a few crazy games at the start of this season he has settled in very well and has generally played well. Reliable and stays fit.
 

Sandikan

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It seems to be well known to everyone but United fans that Evans was always the better player.
Utter nonsense. We bombed him out as he was woeful.

We don't watch him much these days so it's easy to go the grass is greener approach.

He did ok for us when we had the best manager ever and he had all time league greats round him.
He's basically Lindelof lite.
 

Sandikan

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the Maguire haters are pathetic :lol:

imagine Bailly and Lindelof at the back with Tuazebe and Jones back-up

makes me shudder just thinking about it
He had a bad time early season but people don't seem to have balance to understand the unusual circumstances.

Since then he's been good again.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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But we can't sell everyone in one or two windows. Even Liverpool and City took time to shift players like Lovren, Clyne, Otamendi, Mangala, Kalpana, Nolito, Navas etc. Why? It's impossible and we will run out of players. So, would you rather sell Rojones first or Bailly?
FFS. We have three players Rojo, Romero & Jones unregistered. We have too many players, we are not running out of players.
 

Sky1981

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Maguire (if he performs then good) If he doesn't perform he'll be another shit that won't flush.

No club would want to pay 150k / week for him, let alone paying 50M on top of that. At 27 he'll have no resale value, not at the level he was bought at least.
 

Hammondo

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true and that's something we should investigate. The list is endless and is persistent. The twins, Wes, Jones, Shaw, Bailly, Tuanzebe and now Laird seem to join the crew as well.
Welbeck, cleverly, Anderson, smalling at one point.
 

Forevergiggs1

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It seems to be well known to everyone but United fans that Evans was always the better player.

Utter nonsense. We bombed him out as he was woeful.

We don't watch him much these days so it's easy to go the grass is greener approach.

He did ok for us when we had the best manager ever and he had all time league greats round him.
He's basically Lindelof lite.
Which is a load of shite to be honest.
I think this is pretty unfair on Evans. Personally I think he was easily our 3rd choice CB. Where he did let us down was in the amount of injuries he had.

If people had of went on to Leicesters forum when the Maquire deal was being negotiated they would of seen a lot thought they were getting rid of their second best CB.
 

Sandikan

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I think this is pretty unfair on Evans. Personally I think he was easily our 3rd choice CB. Where he did let us down was in the amount of injuries he had.

If people had of went on to Leicesters forum when the Maquire deal was being negotiated they would of seen a lot thought they were getting rid of their second best CB.
He was woeful that last season, culminating in that spitting ban. It was a real mess of a season.

Before that he had some good runs and some average ones. He always had a colossal mistake in him. Very similar to Lindelof for me. Not good in the air, not strong, not unduly fast. Good at interceptions, fairly decent on the ball etc. Someone you'll always say has to have a good player next to him.
 

Cloud7

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Maguire's best quality for me is that he's always fit and available. Prior to him, our CB position was a game of musical chairs for the last decade. Being able to know a player is more than likely going to be available for a game is very valuable.
 

Sandikan

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Not really, he was seen as the better player and leader. Leicester supporters are still confused why we bought him.
It's almost like football fans are fickle and will put a brave face on things.
Like when they tried to say Soyuncu was a better player, just before a dreadful run of games showed why he wasn't at all.
 

GueRed

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Imagine hating on our best centre-back Maguire. A leader and consistent reliable character.

And puting other players in our squad on a pedestal who are complete snowflake bottlejobs
 

Hammondo

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Imagine hating on our best centre-back Maguire. A leader and consistent reliable character.

And puting other players in our squad on a pedestal who are complete snowflake bottlejobs
He's not consistent, a leader, or a reliable character.
 

GueRed

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He's not consistent, a leader, or a reliable character.
in your opinion.

He's Club Captain for a reason.

Manchester United need more Maguire's and Bruno's in this squad real men. not unreliable posers
 

Forevergiggs1

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He was woeful that last season, culminating in that spitting ban. It was a real mess of a season.

Before that he had some good runs and some average ones. He always had a colossal mistake in him. Very similar to Lindelof for me. Not good in the air, not strong, not unduly fast. Good at interceptions, fairly decent on the ball etc. Someone you'll always say has to have a good player next to him.
I do remember some horror shows by Evans when he played at United most notably when West ham beat us 4-0 in the semis of the carling Cup or that 1-6 game against City when he got sent off but I'll always remember when Vidic got that bad injury in 2012? Evans came in and partnered with Rio and he did look like a great prospect and even SAF said that Evans was the best CB in the league but as he also said Jones will be the next Duncan Edwards perhaps we shouldn't read to much into that. :)

Evans is no Ferdinand or Vidic that's clear but he always struck me as someone (Fred?) that if you give him a good run of games will keep getting better and in that respect I think injuries played a big part of him not reaching the heights he could of.
 

miked99

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It's almost like football fans are fickle and will put a brave face on things.
Like when they tried to say Soyuncu was a better player, just before a dreadful run of games showed why he wasn't at all.
Pretty sure they weren't saying that when Maguire was starring in the England side at the World Cup. All football fans spit the dummy when a previously feted player expresses a desire to leave, it's not exactly new.

Anyone saying Evans was great and shouldn't have been sold either has selective memory or wasn't watching us play at the time. He looked good alongside either of the world-class Ferdinand or Vidic but floundered badly once they were both gone and his performances got worse and worse.

My overriding memory of him will be the idiotic red card v city which led to us getting absolutely humiliated.
 

Sandikan

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Pretty sure they weren't saying that when Maguire was starring in the England side at the World Cup. All football fans spit the dummy when a previously feted player expresses a desire to leave, it's not exactly new.

Anyone saying Evans was great and shouldn't have been sold either has selective memory or wasn't watching us play at the time. He looked good alongside either of the world-class Ferdinand or Vidic but floundered badly once they were both gone and his performances got worse and worse.

My overriding memory of him will be the idiotic red card v city which led to us getting absolutely humiliated.
Yep. That was an utterly brainless act. And just like the Tottenham 6-1 this season, people totally forget the context, ie playing a good team with 10 for so long.

That City game was only 3-1 until about 85 mins, but back then we still believed we'd rescue games however late, and we just went gung ho!
 

miked99

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Yep. That was an utterly brainless act. And just like the Tottenham 6-1 this season, people totally forget the context, ie playing a good team with 10 for so long.

That City game was only 3-1 until about 85 mins, but back then we still believed we'd rescue games however late, and we just went gung ho!
It was, but we'd been absolutely slaughtered and it could've been much worse. I was there and it was the second worst game I've ever attended in 40 years of matches. Then we scored a consolation goal out of the blue and city shit themselves. I remember Gareth Barry taking to the corner flag while it was 3-1 trying to waste time. How we managed to conceed another three goals from there I'll never know. I left at 1-4 with two minutes of stoppage time elapsed because I couldn't bear it any more. Didn't even make it to the steps before it was five. Made it out onto the forecourt and another red who'd obviously done the same asked me the score. As I said 5-1 I heard another cheer. Sickening day. The one game I've never even re-watched the goals, highlights, anything.
 

devilish

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Who should we have bought?
Well for starters United should have investigated why so many defenders end up injury prone with us. Some are pretty straight forward. For example Jones and Bailly are so stupid that would probably try and tackle a train in motion given the chance. However others are more subtle. A change in fitness coaching/physios might have sorted United's problem in that area once and for all.

It would have been a good idea back then to check our squad and why we were leaking goals. Some of the issues like lack of leadership couldn't be sorted through buying players. Such a thing tend to be a two way street ie a player can have the leadership skills of Robson and Keane combined but that means nothing until he manages to gain the team's respect. However some issues could be sorted. Now let's have a look at the problem back then

-----------------DDG-------------------
--------Smalling----Lindelof-----
---------------Matic/Mct/Fred----

We've got a goalkeeper whose basically a shot stopper. He won't leave his line even if his own goal is set on fire. Lindelof is a decent passer of the ball but nothing more. He's slow, he's not good in air and his positioning is meah. Smalling the complete opposite of Lindelof. He's fast, he's good in air but his passing is championship level. Meanwhile McT is decent but still young, Matic is experienced but he's slow and no one knew what Fred offered back then. Therefore one had to be careful in playing around the Smalling-Lindelof symbiosis. If Lindelof leaves then defence will start kicking the ball forward like an 80s CB line up. If Smalling leaves then we'd lose the only CB with pace. That's bad news as DDG and Matic are static and Lindelof is slow. I won't mention the other CBs as they are shit, injury prone, young or a mix of all.

If we spent big on a CB then the manager would have no choice but to choose between Lindelof or Smalling. It would have deviated money from other positions as well especially RW and AMC. That's not really an issue if a prime Rio was available but its certainly not the case. Maguire is for Rio what Moyes is to Sir Alex. The better option at that point would have been to add 3 lower profile players who would give the manager options without rocking the boat enough to push first teamers out. I would have therefore gone for Demiral, Partey and Meunier. The former is a 6ft3 Turkish CB whose great in air and whose deceptively quick. Partey would bring mobility in CM without sacrificing too much in terms of creativity. Finally Meunier would bring much needed experience for the RB role which would have allowed us the time to develop Dalot and Laird. The Belgian was heading towards the end of his contract so PSG wouldn't have asked silly money for him
 

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As you can probably tell by now, I somewhat rate Bailly. He gets us out of trouble sometimes with his speed and even erratic slide tackling (can't remember many instances as I just woke up :lol:, think Kovacic last season). He should not be the CB we look to prioritise selling. He's still better than Rojo and Jones.
He doesn't really though, he causes us a lot more problems than he solves. When he came in he looked great for a period and has had a few sporadic decent games since then but more often than not he's an accident waiting to happen. He's probably our fourth choice centre back and that's about his level with us.