Ball retention

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Devil81, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Aug 12, 2019
    #41

    Denis79 Full Member

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    Aside a few brilliant passes Pogba was quite bad yesterday, we can't be losing the ball in midfield that many times, better teams will punish us. @RussellWilson made a great point I never thought about, no way we can sustain pressing a whole match if we cant hold on to the ball enough to get some rest inbetween.

    It's just the first game of the season and I hope this midfield clicks but we really looked disjointed in midfield and I fear it's because of lack of quality and not match fitness.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  2. Aug 12, 2019
    #42

    mancan92 Full Member

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    Well they were away from home where last season they played counter attacking game and also remember Leicester have a similarly top midfield. They had the highest number of passes from any side this weekend.

    You can't compare that to Wolves at home against a worst midfield where they will play their normal possession game.
  3. Aug 12, 2019
    #43

    Gopher Brown Full Member

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    Pogba definitely reminded me why I am indifferent to him yesterday. Kept giving the ball away needlessly, too slow on the ball, but then produced two individual moments which led to goals. I suppose we have to overlook the first bit.
  4. Aug 12, 2019
    #44

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Holy fecking shit. Some kind of record, surely?
  5. Aug 12, 2019
    #45

    fallengt Full Member

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    Need someone who is calm with ball in his feet.
    Pogba with all his talents, he's too full of himself, always tries for Hollywood turn & pass and those things are often more risk than reward. I lost count how many times he gave the ball away unnecessarily in the first half. McSauce and Pereira weren't better, they were clueless under pressure.

    Everyone can see our midfield just can't control the game.
  6. Aug 12, 2019
    #46

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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  7. Aug 12, 2019
    #47

    Al Capone New Member

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    I think pogba given his mental state is in the right place is capable of using the ball much better and after a few games i hope he is back up to speed and operating at his natural level and he uses and protects the ball much better.

    However i agree that our midfield were guilty of losing the ball way too much and not being able to retain posession to control the game or the tempo.

    If we can sort this then we will be more than competitive
  8. Aug 12, 2019
    #48

    2OLEgend_2019 New Member

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  9. Aug 12, 2019
    #49

    fallengt Full Member

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    We don't have to be ball retention team. Carrick could recycle the ball well in the back and not single soul ever called Fergie's football was possession based.

    You just need someone who can dedicate tempo so when we win the ball, players can get to their proper possitions. Pogba is not that player. United was very sloppy when in possession.
  10. Aug 12, 2019
    #50

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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  11. Aug 12, 2019
    #51

    abdo99 Full Member

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    Our pressing is going to be in vain if we don't keep the ball. Hopefully we can see Gomes in the midfield soon working in tandem with Pogba to solve this issue somewhat . The ball is stuck to his feet and he rarely loses possession. It could be a positive step especially in the home matches. We should have also targeted a DLP that's not Longstaff in the transfers window to recycle the ball and allow players like Pogba and Gomes the freedom to cut open teams in the last third.
  12. Aug 12, 2019
    #52

    Rajma Full Member

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    As people already mentioned our pressing game will be enough for 1/3 of the season at most if we don't start dominating possession and retaining the ball well, Fred and Gomes can help us in this area as those two have the ability to not panic when under pressure. Pass for the sake of pass is what we need in our game.
  13. Aug 12, 2019
    #53

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Grillitsch would have been ideal here.
  14. Aug 12, 2019
    #54

    Siorac Full Member

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  15. Aug 12, 2019
    #55

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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  16. Aug 12, 2019
    #56

    Bestietom Full Member

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    Me too @golden_blunder . Like to see us bring in a top midfielder in January. It can be done if our Scouts are working on it now. I think that Ole wanted a midfielder but just couldn't get one over the line, in time.
  17. Aug 12, 2019
    #57

    Siorac Full Member

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    And that was just one season! I don't have numbers for other seasons unfortunately.

    But yeah, I wouldn't want Neymar even if he was actually as good as he thinks he is.
  18. Aug 12, 2019
    #58

    Nep77 New Member

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    The reason I never understood posters going gaga over Bruno Fernandes, We needed a 6 or 8 who can recycle the possession and keep the ball than a final 3rd player like him which we have plenty. This should be the next window Priority be it January or summer. James Garner does look to have all the qualities for that position but maybe its 2 years too early for him at this stage.
  19. Aug 12, 2019
    #59

    RedRonaldo Full Member

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    Even back in Fergie years, we don’t always play possession football, especially when playing against strong side. We are good at fast countering football though.
  20. Aug 12, 2019
    #60

    tomaldinho1 Full Member

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    I think the issue with this is that it'll take more than just being good at counter attacking to get back to winning the league, let alone doing well in Europe. Until we can control and dictate the speed of a game - especially when we're ahead - we won't get near the best clubs.

    Many of the issues yesterday stemmed from Pogba and McT giving the ball away (I think on this thread someone quotes it as being 17 times between them) which is an atrociously high number so maybe with a bit more focus we'd have seemed a lot more solid.
  21. Aug 12, 2019
    #61

    RussellWilson Full Member

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    Don't think it makes a possession side, but you need a CM to run the game and control possession. We always had Keane, until he left and Scholes had his eye injury, then we were terrible until we got him back, then eventually Carrick took the mantle. And we've been poor again especially in the big games since Carrick lost his powers and retired.

    They are hard to come by but we definitely need one. De Jong would have been the dream.
  22. Aug 12, 2019
    #62

    Infra-red Full Member

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    He and Fabian Ruiz were my dream picks for midfield in the summer. Hard working, technically gifted players who could do some of Pogba's running for him and keep some semblance of control in midfield.
  23. Aug 12, 2019
    #63

    In Rainbows Full Member

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    I wanted De Jong too.

    Gomes and Garner are the ideal players, but because they're so young you can't just say "that's the problem solved." They need to be tested in easier matches and earn trust. For all we know they flop at the highest level, despite my belief in them.
  24. Aug 12, 2019
    #64

    fps Full Member

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    Fred? Ball retention? I'm baffed....
  25. Aug 12, 2019
    #65

    Wednesday at Stoke Full Member

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    Pogba is always going to lose the ball because he takes risky chances. This is why he needs to be spending most of his time in the opposition half so that even when he loses the ball, its not catastrophic. This team has the makings of a solid unit if it can figure out a good defensive midfielder who can get the ball to the likes of Pogba and do the defensive work.
  26. Aug 12, 2019
    #66

    romufc Full Member

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    Why are we getting so worried after the first game, I hope everyone appreciates the pressure the players were in yesterday's game.

    Pogba is prob one of the best CM's around and people on here saying we need top CM's to dominate possession.

    We have McT and Pogba who are decent CM's. People calling for Pogba to play further up but have no idea about the consequences of that.

    1. If we want to play a pressing game, Pogba cannot play no. 10 because he DOES NOT press. Hence Lingard is preferred.
    2. If we want to us our strengths then Pogba has to play deeper to play those passes for our pacey forwards to chase.
    3. We not not have a player in the team who can get the ball to Pogba if he is further up.
    4. Last season, Pogba got marked out of games by opponents CDM's, it is alot harder to maker a CM out a game.
  27. Aug 12, 2019
    #67

    Irwin99 Full Member

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    Yesterday definitely took the theory that 'if you win the midfield battle you win the game' and turned it on it's head.

    I expect there will be a lot of arguments about the balance of the midfield over the season. Lots of them will be centred on Pogba's role. I know it's really unpopular and I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Matic either but if he plays do we at least have someone to cover the spaces in midfield a bit better? I just don't think anyone else in our choice of midfielders can play that role with the right discipline.
  28. Aug 12, 2019
    #68

    BusbyMalone Full Member

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    That's letting him off the hook slightly. A lot of the times he lost the ball yesterday was due to him being very carless in possession. He wasn't trying a risky pass or anything like that, he was just dawdling on the ball instead of releasing it quicker.
  29. Aug 12, 2019
    #69

    7even Resident moaner, hypocrite and moron

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    1. When we have possession our players don’t run into open spaces and make themselves available to give the holder of the ball enough alternatives. There isn’t enough movements and we don’t release the ball quick enough. That makes us vulnerable against aggressive pressing and that’s one of the reasons we lose the ball frequently in our own half.

    2. We need more players who’re comfortable in tight spaces and can dribble themselves out of intensive pressing. Luke Shaw has the acceleration and speed but are to slow in his decision making. McTominay isn’t comfortable with opponents behind his back so most of the time he take the easy alternative and pass the ball back or sideways. It’s unfair to expect him to act as a deep playmaker with his size and technique, he’s better suited as a b2b type of midfielder.

    3. Pogba’s best position is further up with two midfielders behind him. I don’t like our 4231 formation because it restricts our most creative player to use to much energy on defense duties. He needs to be higher up and use his qualities when we attack.
  30. Aug 12, 2019
    #70

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    It's clear we are going to be a team that presses and relies on fast breaks. We simply don't have the midfield personnel to control games as I don't think we've really got midfielders who are comfortable with the ball like that. Pogba obviously is the best of the bunch and whilst he's capable of the sublime he's always going to have his sloppy moments in practically every game. I'd trust us so much more if Herrera was still at the club since he's composed on the ball and helps recover the sloppy plays. Oh well.

    The problem with this style of play is that some games the ball just doesn't go in and without having control it's going to hurt our consistency. Luckily we've got two central defenders who are superb with the ball but we really miss that extra protection in front of them and that extra midfielder who can retain the ball. It's hard to press all game, every game, all season but with Ole working so much on fitness and seemingly having a plan (building from the back) I do feel we are at least heading in a sense of direction.
  31. Aug 12, 2019
    #71

    RedCurry Full Member

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    We take too many touches. Easy to press a player with the ball when you know they will dwell on it.
  32. Aug 12, 2019
    #72

    Treble Full Member

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    Ball retention is key for successful pressing during the whole season. Pressing without having a lot of possession would run the team in the ground.
  33. Aug 12, 2019
    #73

    wolvored Full Member

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    Well we got to play them at least twice this season first :drool:
  34. Aug 12, 2019
    #74

    MrSingh2002 Full Member

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    Scholes puts it into perspective when he could go a whole game without giving the ball away 2 or 3 times.
  35. Aug 12, 2019
    #75

    Crackers Coolest Cracker in the box Scout

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    This is our biggest issue. Our movement is crap and we seem to revert back to zombie passing. I know it'll take time to address but our lack of movement at the start of games is going to kill us. We sometimes take about 20 mins to remember how to create space and it's really frustrating
  36. Aug 12, 2019
    #76

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    :lol:

    Yeah meant next game obviously :D
  37. Aug 12, 2019
    #77

    Teja Full Member

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    Chelsea pressed really well yesterday though (City / Pool / Spurs play a great pressing game as well). We need Midfield signings but I'm pretty sure we'll do a lot better against the cannon fodder.
  38. Aug 12, 2019
    #78

    Adnan Full Member

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    The midfield struggles were predicted by myself and quite a few others before the season started. I even mentioned our ball retention would be a issue against any top 8 side.

    We're actually in a position now to give someone like Gomes the opportunity over the likes of Pereira, Lingard, Mata. And I'd even play him ahead of McTominay due to Gomes having vastly superior technical qualities over the Scotsman.
  39. Aug 12, 2019
    #79

    ValenciaRocks Full Member

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    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02640414.2013.786185

    Read this research paper that compares high intensity running of High and Low percentage possession teams...

    A very interesting read
  40. Aug 12, 2019
    #80

    Isotope Full Member

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    Said it on the other thread, the culprits were Lingard and Pereira. Both roles are the hub between midfield and attack. But they were poor on getting involved during the game. Their passing numbers were 26 and 15 passes respectively, which tells that they rarely made themselves available for Pogba and McTom.