Ballon d'Or 2021 | Lewandowski robbed again

Zehner

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We should have started the discussion with this which would have saved both of us about 30 minutes of the day.
Maybe. I know it's not mainstream but I also don't think players suddenly become better or worse at the end of a season.
 

Nonameboy

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The ballon dor is not to reward the best player in the world its for player of the year and that was and is Lewandowski not the guy who only has one goal in the awfull ligue 1 while playing for a powerhouse of a team.
 

shamans

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It's the other way round. Nobody would play Lewandowski as a striker if he could do what Messi can do. You would try to bring him into positions from which he can influence the game more. Same way Ronaldo moved further up front as his overall contribution degressed. There's a reason why playmakers were always rated higher than any other position in football.



I do what? :lol:

Also, the irony that somebody who is as tribal as you labels somebody else a "fan boy". I mean, of course I am a fan boy. But I'm a fan boy of the football Messi produces, you're a fan boy of the person. I lose interest the moment a player regresses to a level that I don't enjoy watching any longer and just turn to the next one while you will support him unconditionally. That's very commendable by you but to be honest I very much doubt that he or anyone else in football really deserves the kind of loyalty.
I'm a fanboy of Ronaldo but I know enough to say he doesn't deserve the Ballon'Dor this year.

Should I remind you, you are the same person who said "anyone who thinks Ronaldo has a better goal highlight reel than mess is intellectually dishonest"?
 

hasanejaz88

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Yes, I hate Bayern with a passion, no denying that. But I still admire the players. I was a great fan of Robben for example and still think he's the best player behind Messi and Ronaldo that I've seen play.

And yes, Lewandowski is great at many things, especially his hold up play. I always said his technique reminds me a bit of Berbatov - just exceptional. I also think he's a worthy nominee, just not worth of the win for the reasons I mentioned. I'd still be happy for him if he wins it as some kind of "lifetime achievement", similar to Modric

Anyway, I also think that the defensive contribution is generally a weak argument in this case. As you said, Lewandowski isn't particularly good in this regard, too. Messi is notorious for not pressing but strangely he still has more pressures per 90 than Lewandowski this season.
The less pressure per 90 would be tactical because if you look at the previous season, Lewandowski was 12 per 90 compared to Messi's 8.6. Lewandowski has consistently been in the 11.5-13 range for the previous 4 seasons while Messi had been decreasing during that time, which does match the discussion around his lack of pressing lately. Also, Messi has more presses in other parts of the pitch because he isn't playing as a striker and therefore occupies the midfield, rather than Lewandowski who is mostly pressing in the final third.

Also, if you want to focus on just this season, then we better not get into Messi's other stats because Lewandowski would far outperform him :D
 

Maciej

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Alexis Sanchez in 2016: 48 goals and assists, second place with Arsenal in the league, last 16 of UEFA Champions League, won Copa America with Chile.

Leo Messi in 2021: 50 goals and assists, third place with Barcelona in the league, last 16 of UEFA Champions League, won Copa America with Argentina.

Sanchez wasn't even in top 30, Messi is going to win this.
 

Sarni

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Alexis Sanchez in 2016: 48 goals and assists, second place with Arsenal in the league, last 16 of UEFA Champions League, won Copa America with Chile.

Leo Messi in 2021: 50 goals and assists, third place with Barcelona in the league, last 16 of UEFA Champions League, won Copa America with Argentina.

Sanchez wasn't even in top 30, Messi is going to win this.
Copa America was not important that year. It was in 2021.
 

Sunny Jim

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Alexis Sanchez in 2016: 48 goals and assists, second place with Arsenal in the league, last 16 of UEFA Champions League, won Copa America with Chile.

Leo Messi in 2021: 50 goals and assists, third place with Barcelona in the league, last 16 of UEFA Champions League, won Copa America with Argentina.

Sanchez wasn't even in top 30, Messi is going to win this.
yeah, its a beauty contest
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Apparently they are unveiling a 'best striker' award today, which is very funny.
 

Sarni

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Apparently they are unveiling a 'best striker' award today, which is very funny.
This is pathetic but at least they will be able to easily give the next 4-5 main awards to Messi with straight face.
 

Earvin Johnson

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Alexis Sanchez in 2016: 48 goals and assists, second place with Arsenal in the league, last 16 of UEFA Champions League, won Copa America with Chile.

Leo Messi in 2021: 50 goals and assists, third place with Barcelona in the league, last 16 of UEFA Champions League, won Copa America with Argentina.

Sanchez wasn't even in top 30, Messi is going to win this.
Now look at progression numbers, chances created, shot and goal creating actions, and completed dribbles while you are at it.
 

Marzo

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This is all Beckham’s fault......my god, what has football become?
 

BalanceUnAutreJoint

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Huh? Blaming the individual for the teams faults is a double edged sword. The same argument can be made for lewa. The truth is they were both great. Messi more in last season and lewa this season. Lewa should have a 2020 ballondo'r to his name. that's the real controversy here. Most years there are a couple favorites people fight over, but outright cancelling the award was a dumb decision.
Messi having 0 defensive workrate is a big reason why Barca were humiliated so often in the CL these past few years.
No other player can afford to lose the ball and just walk as if nothing had happened.
 

Sarni

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Now look at progression numbers, chances created, shot and goal creating actions, and completed dribbles while you are at it.
:lol: Not sure if that is a serious response.

Completed dribbles :lol: What about successful first touches with the bottom of the right foot and most tackles made with right leg?
 

Earvin Johnson

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Messi fanboys are so flexible.
Oh yeah ad hominem when you have nothing to say. If you don't know much about Football and only look at G+A then you should maybe take a seat back and let the grown ups speak while you educate yourself.
 

Earvin Johnson

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:lol: Not sure if that is a serious response.

Completed dribbles :lol: What about successful first touches with the bottom of the right foot and most tackles made with right leg?
Oh so Dribbles are useless in Football? Oh yes please, keep enlightening with educated football opinions.
 

Sarni

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Oh so Dribbles are useless in Football? Oh yes please, keep enlightening with educated football opinions.
Successful dribbles should not make a difference between someone not even being considered top 30 and someone being a winner of individual award by default.

You can make an argument for any top player based on advanced stats. Why are dribbles important but headers are not for example? Or penalty conversion? Is it because Messi doesn’t lead that?
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Now look at progression numbers, chances created, shot and goal creating actions, and completed dribbles while you are at it.
"There is a bigger number of a thing" is the absolute worst, most low-level, anti-intellectual use of statistics anyone can ever engage in.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Huh? Blaming the individual for the teams faults is a double edged sword. The same argument can be made for lewa. The truth is they were both great.
The argument would be "if he'd been around for the QFs Bayern probably go through" which makes him look good.
 

MUFC OK

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Common knowledge that Messi is winning this purely for the Copa America. Lewandowski should have won it, not just for last season but for the season before when it was (imo) inexcusably not awarded to anyone.
 

JPRouve

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The ballon dor is not to reward the best player in the world its for player of the year and that was and is Lewandowski not the guy who only has one goal in the awfull ligue 1 while playing for a powerhouse of a team.
I was going to agree with you and you went with "awful Ligue 1".
:lol:
:nono:
 

MUFC OK

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Messi having 0 defensive workrate is a big reason why Barca were humiliated so often in the CL these past few years.
No other player can afford to lose the ball and just walk as if nothing had happened.
Yeah, to be fair a semi-competent coach would be saying "they play with 9 outfield players in the transition". You don't have to have every player busting a gut but you cant carry that level of apathy.
 

Thelongsleevesofblomqvist

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The real shame/scandal is that price was canceled last year - when Lewandowski had the type if extraordinary season that gives you an argument over the very best. This year was more normal - and then Messi is still the best player in the world.

It’s a good thing in general that the price doesnt automatically go to the most profilic player in the cl winning club. Jorginho and Van Dijk are, as we know, very good but neither has ever been the best player in the world.

Except Lewandowski, Salah could maybe make an argument this year. But Messi is still the best.
 

Gehrman

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:lol: Not sure if that is a serious response.

Completed dribbles :lol: What about successful first touches with the bottom of the right foot and most tackles made with right leg?
Wonder how we would with ever appreaciate Ronaldinho in forms of stats.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Successful dribbles should not make a difference between someone not even being considered top 30 and someone being a winner of individual award by default.

You can make an argument for any top player based on advanced stats. Why are dribbles important but headers are not for example? Or penalty conversion? Is it because Messi doesn’t lead that?
There's a post here about dribbling stats:

https://statsbomb.com/2018/02/taking-em-on-digging-deeper-with-dribbles/

There's really no obvious correlation between the stats and 'how great a player you are.'
 

OutlawGER

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Ridiculous if true that Messi wins it.

Do they hate Lewandowski? Last year his safe win got just cancelled and now they give it to Messi after an even better season of Lewandowski while Messi played an underwhelming season? Holy moly.
 

Champ

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Does anyone actually give a crap who wins?? :houllier:
 

Jacob

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Does anyone actually give a crap who wins?? :houllier:
You don't have to be extremely enthused to tune in. I have a slight curiousity which is enough - it's common knowledge for a football fan to at least know who won.
 

Champ

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You don't have to be extremely enthused to tune in. I have a slight curiousity which is enough - it's common knowledge for a football fan to at least know who won.
I have no interest at all in seeing who a bunch of journalists believe is the best player in the world.

I will no doubt catch who wins it at some point tonight, and it will have no profound effect on the world of football at all.

But each to their own I suppose.