Bayern Munich 2018

[Adisa]

Have not followed the Bundesliga at all this season. (When Man Utd lose, I lose interest in football and we've lost a lot this season ). Anyway, looked at the Bundesliga table and thought my phone was messed up. What's happened to them? Looked up Kovac on twitter and unsurprisingly, he's up for the sack.

 

[IAmAWinner]

They still have Robben(34) and Ribery(35) starting games. I guess that is a big problem.

 

[SCP]

@GhastlyHun Is Hoeness slogan "Lets make the Bundesliga Great Again"?

 

[Canagel]

They will sack their manager before we do. Bayern are a ruthless club. They won't allow bad results to continue without consequences.

 

[Ban]

They will sack their manager before we do. Bayern are a ruthless club. They won't allow bad results to continue without consequences.

Yet they hired Kovac for some reason who, although I like him, is out of his depth there. It's amazing that 3 posts in theres already United involved here.

 

[PedroMendez]

They still have Robben(34) and Ribery(35) starting games. I guess that is a big problem.

Not just those two.
Lewandowski, while still being class, is not at his peak anymore. Müller could switch jobs with the mascot and the team wouldn't loose much. Boateng, Javi and Alaba all played better in the past as well. I can't even bring myself to complain about Thiago, because he is one of the better players over the course of the last two years. Coman, who was genuinely exciting, is getting destroyed by injuries.

There have been talks about bringing in a new generation of players since the second season of Pep, but it never really worked for various reasons. Now the old guard is getting really old or left already, but there are not enough players ready and able to step up. Kimmich and Süle are the only two who I trust to do so.

Many caf-bayern fans complaint over the last two years that the team is decling a lot, but the lack of competition in the Bundesliga was hiding it to some extend.

Hiring Kovacs is just the last of many errors. He deserves to get sacked because he is doing a terrible job, but he is not sole responsible for this mess.
In a way he is Bayern's Moyes: not good enough but the rot goes deeper.

 

[PoTMS]

Yet they hired Kovac for some reason who, although I like him, is out of his depth there. It's amazing that 3 posts in theres already United involved here.

Amazing that - on a United forum and all.

 

[100]

Remember they signed Renato Sanches and it looked like they could do no wrong? Perfectly transitioning from their last great team to another - selling over the hill players like Schweinsteiger to accommodate youth. Bringing in Ancelotti whilst we struggled with LvG? It seems kind of bizarre that they're still relying on Robben and Ribery.

They've still got great players. They'll need to get prime Robben and Ribery level attackers to challenge for the CL again though

 

[Keeps It tidy]

- They literally have no one else who can play LB if Alaba is injured
- There is no balance to their midfield with Tolisso injured plus Vidal and Rudy sold. They have a holding midfielder in Martinez and bunch of similar midfielders in Thiago, Goretzka and Sanches. Thaigo and Goretzka especially do not fit well together
- James and Muller do not really fit well together either.
- Sanches and Gnarby have been better than expected but, it is worrying how much Bayern have had to use them so far. And with Coman injured Gnarby is the only real backup for Robben and Ribery
- They badly needed a left footed winger who could play on the right they were in pole position to sign Malcom but, backed out because of cost.
- Hummels and Boateng has shown signs of decline this season
- Lewandowski has not been great either.

 

[haram]

Not just those two.
Lewandowski, while still being class, is not at his peak anymore. Müller could change jobs with the mascot and the team wouldn't loose much. Boateng, Javi and Alaba all played better in the past as well. I can't even bring myself to complain about Thiago, because he is one of the better players over the course of the last two years. Coman, who was genuinely exciting, is getting destroyed by injuries.

There have been talks about bringing in a new generation of players since the second season of Pep, but it never really worked for various reasons. Now the old guard is getting really old or left already, but there are not enough players ready and able to step up. Kimmich and Süle are the only two who I trust to do so.

Many caf-bayern fans complaint over the last two years that the team is decling a lot, but the lack of competition in the Bundesliga was hiding it to some extend.

Hiring Kovacs is just the last of many errors. He deserves to get sacked because he is doing a terrible job, but he is not sole responsible for this mess.
In a way he is Bayern's Moyes: not good enough but the rot goes deeper.

It's like us when Fergie left. Most of our squad aged (Rooney, Vidic, Evra, Rio, Scholes, Giggs, Carrick etc) and there wasn't much younger quality coming through. Off the top of my head I genuinely think we had the likes of Cleverley, Jones, Welbeck and Smalling and that was it. Then obviously the recruitment under LVG was terrible, we're still paying for it now.

 

[vangagal]

Not going for Tuchel was a mistake for me. I bet Tuchel can get more out of this current Bayern's players while play better football.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

They don't spend much money do they? Every year, it's the same fellows starting for them barring odd exception. They need to do a Juve and loosen the purse strings. You can't rely on the same players for 6-7 years and expect the same results.

 

[Ban]

Amazing that - on a United forum and all.

Tell us how you really feel.

 

[GhastlyHun]

- They literally have no one else who can play LB if Alaba is injured
- There is no balance to their midfield with Tolisso injured plus Vidal and Rudy sold. They have a holding midfielder in Martinez and bunch of similar midfielders in Thiago, Goretzka and Sanches. Thaigo and Goretzka especially do not fit well together
- James and Muller do not really fit well together either.
- Sanches and Gnarby have been better than expected but, it is worrying how much Bayern have had to use them so far. And with Coman injured Gnarby is the only real backup for Robben and Ribery
- They badly needed a left footed winger who could play on the right they were in pole position to sign Malcom but, backed out because of cost.
- Hummels and Boateng has shown signs of decline this season
- Lewandowski has not been great either.

Pretty much this. Robben and Ribery really shouldn't be starters anymore.

 

[el3mel]

1) Terrible managerial appointment. Just because a 1 or 2 unexpected managerial appointment worked for other clubs doesn't means you have to go the same route. Kovac is out of his depth there.
2) Very aging team that they refuse to renew or rebuild every year. It has come to a ridiculous point now.

 

[Acrobat7]

Unwillingness to invest + a coach out of his depths = struggle

 

[izec]

Similar to Real. Not spending much in the summer and the wrong manager/not good enough manager and you struggle. People think they can just walk the league every year are wrong. There was a time almost a decade ago where they had massive problems too, seems like they are going back to that point.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

I have not watched too many Bayern games over the last few months but in those Robben and Ribéry always were their best players.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

They'll probably hire Zidane.

 

[Cloud7]

Müller could switch jobs with the mascot and the team wouldn't loose much

What's been the reason for his fall from grace? Would love to hear from you and the other Bayern fans about this, as this is the one that confuses me the most.

From the 2010 world cup onward to the early 2010's Muller was one of my favorite players in world football. He seemed so intelligent, always knew where to be, an excellent finisher etc, I really enjoyed watching him play. Where has it gone wrong for him?

 

[Ish]

- They literally have no one else who can play LB if Alaba is injured
- There is no balance to their midfield with Tolisso injured plus Vidal and Rudy sold. They have a holding midfielder in Martinez and bunch of similar midfielders in Thiago, Goretzka and Sanches. Thaigo and Goretzka especially do not fit well together
- James and Muller do not really fit well together either.
- Sanches and Gnarby have been better than expected but, it is worrying how much Bayern have had to use them so far. And with Coman injured Gnarby is the only real backup for Robben and Ribery
- They badly needed a left footed winger who could play on the right they were in pole position to sign Malcom but, backed out because of cost.
- Hummels and Boateng has shown signs of decline this season
- Lewandowski has not been great either.

Based on your post, and there obviously being more reasons to it then what I am aware of, but selling Bernat, D Costa and Vidal without properly replacing them might have not been the best idea then, it seems?

Albeit someone like Vidal is also nearing the end of his career.

I had no clue they were struggling at the start of this season, until I just looked up the BL table. I just assumed they were still flying at the top, as usual

 

[GhastlyHun]

What's been the reason for his fall from grace? Would love to hear from you and the other Bayern fans about this, as this is the one that confuses me the most.

From the 2010 world cup onward to the early 2010's Muller was one of my favorite players in world football. He seemed so intelligent, always knew where to be, an excellent finisher etc, I really enjoyed watching him play. Where has it gone wrong for him?

He still was excellent under Pep, apart from his ability to take pens, which he already lost in that time (he had a phenomenal pen conversion rate for years, then he just couldn't score one to save his life). Afterwards, people started putting him on the right wing both in the Bayern and German national team, which simply does not fit his physical attributes nor style of play. I guess he has lost lots of confidence and has begun to think about stuff on the pitch that came natural a while back.

 

[Cloud7]

He still was excellent under Pep, apart from his ability to take pens, which he already lost in that time (he had a phenomenal pen conversion rate for years, then he just couldn't score one to save his life). Afterwards, people started putting him on the right wing both in the Bayern and German national team, which simply does not fit his physical attributes nor style of play. I guess he has lost lots of confidence and has begun to think about stuff on the pitch that came natural a while back.

Ahh I see. So you think he could get back to somewhere near his best under a different manager?

Weird that they would think to put him on the RW when he was superb in that second striker role

 

[GhastlyHun]

Ahh I see. So you think he could get back to somewhere near his best under a different manager?

Weird that they would think to put him on the RW when he was superb in that second striker role

I don't know if he can come back near his best, maybe it's gone.
Reason for the second one is certainly that we have a lot more competition in OM than on the wings. It's not helping anyone though.

 

[RW2]

They won their first 4 Bundesliga matches with ease and their first CL match away to Benfica.

As ever the answer lies within a combination of reasons, many of which are discussed on the Bundesliga thread.

Briefly I think the main reason is player power. Prominent players, like James and Ribery, have whinged to the media about being on the bench. Others, like Sule and Gnabry, have kept quiet publically but are plotting with the plotters. One or two others are either old, underperforming or not performing at all....Muller fits into this category, possibly Lewandowski.

They're trying to get rid of Kovac and the best way to do that is to do exactly what they did on Ancelotti....underperform and basically throw matches.

Yes they haven't rebuilt since the Pep days and the average age of their squad is 30 but its too much of a coincidence that results started going bad as the same time as the dissenters started mouthing.

 

[CA1]

Declining league and a declining club.

Not got the money to compete, they say they have but they don't prove it.

De Bruyne and Sane were two Bayern players all over. Both would have chosen Bayern over City if Bayern had put a decent fight for them. Both players excelled in the Bundesliga.

 

[RW2]

Declining league and a declining club.

Not got the money to compete, they say they have but they don't prove it.

De Bruyne and Sane were two Bayern players all over. Both would have chosen Bayern over City if Bayern had put a decent fight for them. Both players excelled in the Bundesliga.

They're loaded with cash.

 

[Jim Beam]

They do like to throw their coach under the bus...

Kovac is a bad appointment, but thought he would last a bit longer. Only a question of time now imo.

 

[Chekhov]

I honestly didn't see this coming with Kovac. He was fantastic with Frankfurt.

What has he done so wrong with Bayern thus far?

 

[GhastlyHun]

They do like to throw their coach under the bus...

Kovac is a bad appointment, but thought he would last a bit longer. Only a question of time now imo.

He's not being thrown under the bus, in fact. Hoeneß has announced publicly that he will defend him to the hilt. No wonder, since Kovac has been Hoeneß' appointment after he twiddled his thumbs too long in hope of Heynckes staying another season and doing so missed the time window to get Tuchel.

 

[Jim Beam]

He's not being thrown under the bus, in fact. Hoeneß has announced publicly that he will defend him to the hilt. No wonder, since Kovac has been Hoeneß' appointment after he twiddled his thumbs too long in hope of Heynckes staying another season and doing so missed the time window to get Tuchel.

Talking more about the players. If they decided to get him fired, it would happen no matter of Hoenes support. It can only postpone it a bit.

The fact that Kovac isn't Bayern menagerial quality imho also doesn't help.

 

[golden_blunder]

He still was excellent under Pep, apart from his ability to take pens, which he already lost in that time (he had a phenomenal pen conversion rate for years, then he just couldn't score one to save his life). Afterwards, people started putting him on the right wing both in the Bayern and German national team, which simply does not fit his physical attributes nor style of play. I guess he has lost lots of confidence and has begun to think about stuff on the pitch that came natural a while back.

Lvg was prepared to drop like 100m on him for United. Should have snapped his hand off

 

[deleon]

- They literally have no one else who can play LB if Alaba is injured
- There is no balance to their midfield with Tolisso injured plus Vidal and Rudy sold. They have a holding midfielder in Martinez and bunch of similar midfielders in Thiago, Goretzka and Sanches. Thaigo and Goretzka especially do not fit well together
- James and Muller do not really fit well together either.
- Sanches and Gnarby have been better than expected but, it is worrying how much Bayern have had to use them so far. And with Coman injured Gnarby is the only real backup for Robben and Ribery
- They badly needed a left footed winger who could play on the right they were in pole position to sign Malcom but, backed out because of cost.
- Hummels and Boateng has shown signs of decline this season
- Lewandowski has not been great either.

Sounds like we could be competing for the same players in a couple of positions in the summer. I know it's early, but we'll have to get our act together to avoid a disappointing transfer window.

 

[Casanova85]

J.H.C. I'd pay to watch them biting the dust this season. Juventus (most probably) winning the 7th italian league in a row is bad enough.

Go Borussia D., go!

 

[enigmista]

J.H.C. I'd pay to watch them biting the dust this season. Juventus (most probably) winning the 7th italian league in a row is bad enough.

Go Borussia D., go!

Hmm 8th, if you are gonna hate at least do it properly

 

[PedroMendez]

Ahh I see. So you think he could get back to somewhere near his best under a different manager?

Weird that they would think to put him on the RW when he was superb in that second striker role

Its hard to pin down. Part of it is probably down to tactics and the players around him, but that is not everything. He always played on the RW for the national team and performed very well in this position in the (very) distant past. He is also frequently playing in the center for bayern and he is not as good as he was. He was worldclass as second striker, when the wings were very creative, but the players around and behind him all declined and I think thats part of the reason why he is far less efficient. I am not sure that Müller lacks confidence. It is only my opinion, but I think he is too comfortable in Munich. The fans love him, the media love him and he still plays most games despite mediocre performances. Neither the manager nor the players, that compete with him, are pushing him to the limit. Maybe he just peaked early. I also might add, that my statement was slightly exaggerated to make a point. Müller is still a good player, but he shouldn't be a starter for bayern with 5,5/10 performances.

 

[IrishGlen]

They’re still only 4 points off Dortmund though and they play them away in November.

Whether it’s Kovac or a caretaker, I’d still be backing Bayern to win it.

 

[Treble]

Lopetegui and Kovac proving the theory that it's not easy to coach a top team and much more is needed than just having a group of excellent players.

 

[Utd7]

They'll probably hire Zidane.

Bild is reporting that Zidane and Wegner are on their shortlist. Make no mistake we've seen this story before. We will dither, ruthless and efficient Bayern will sack their manager and bring in Zidane shortly thereafter. And we'll be stuck with Mourinho.

 

[Casanova85]

Hmm 8th, if you are gonna hate at least do it properly